Is the Cerbera really more expensive to maintain....

Is the Cerbera really more expensive to maintain....

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Willtl

Original Poster:

135 posts

108 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
than other TVRs? ....and if so, why?

I've received a couple of comments that the Cerbera is more expensive to maintain than other TVRs. Can some of you be kind enough to summarise your maintenance experiences? I'm curious to know whether this model is even more unreliable than other models, just has more costly parts (but the same problems) or if they just seem more unreliable but like any other cars, there are good and bad examples out there.

I'm fairly familiar with the reputation certain cars can get and have also seen when things always aren't as they appear. I had an Alfa 156 from new in 2000 and other than the timing belt tensioner giving way when the car was 9 months old (putting the car out of action for 3 weeks whilst Alfa internally agreed it would be covered under warranty), it was basically bullet proof - the only parts replaced over its 13 year and 80k life were the battery, starting motor, wiper blades and a few light bulbs.

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
Mechanically they are very strong with the weakest link probably being the gearbox.

The clutch slaves seals last a few years between being changed, that costs around £200 to get done at a good Indie but otherwise mechanically they are tough as old boots.

They can be quirky on the electical side especially under the bonnet with running problems caused by dodgy wiring to things like Throttle Pots and the like, often the easiest way of fixing these issues is to replace the under bonnet loom, it is afterall wiring that lives in a hostile environment and is 15_+ years old.

Servicing is marginally more expensive than the others but not by much.

At the end of the day you can spend a small fortune if you want lots of upgrades and performance tweeks like I have but if I take them out of the equation over the last 3 years or so I have only really spend on servicing once a year a couple of Lambda sensors a year tyres and general consumables.

A rule of thumb is to put away £250 a month into the car fund and that will cover you for your Cerbera related costs.

Oh just so you know they are just brilliant and addictive cars, worth every penny!!


TimJM

1,497 posts

209 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
Yes, it is more expensive.

It is not so much that they are less reliable it is just that they are higher performance and so wear and tear on components is higher. The will break gearboxes and eat clutches. They also eat batteries and starter motors. Servicing is more expensive and they cost more to insure and they use much more petrol. Perhaps they have higher under bonnet/exhaust temperatures too because they can also get through coil packs and lambda sensors frequently.

They do have more electrical gremlins but that is because they have more electrics.

In my experience 3-4k a year will maintain a Cerbera to a good standard. Under 1k a year for a chim or griff unless you are unlucky.

Tim.

jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
I'm going to say no.

Yes they are much more expensive to maintain than the Rover V8 engined cars that preceded the Cerbera. The Cerbera was a step change upwards in maintencance costs from Chimaeras or Griffiths.

Everything after the Cerbera had a similar level of complexity and number of bespoke parts. The exception is the Cerbera's rear brakes which are fearsomely expensive for what they are.

I'm saying 'no' therefore because your other contenders were a T350T or a Tuscan. With either of those you're already into TVR engine servicing, the expensive clutches and slaves and the TVR electrics.

An AJP8 is slightly dearer to service than a Speed Six, but you're in the same ballpark with a Cerbera, a Tuscan or a T350 in my view.

Gazzab

21,061 posts

281 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
I have a piece of string - how long is it?

TVRJAS

2,391 posts

128 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
Chimaera owner here,

Even these can be costly,noticed the comment of 1k or under unless unlucky but really it also depends on how much you use the car.

There are many TVR owners only putting 1-3k miles a year,which the less you use it theoretically should cost less to run especially when you start to add all costs.

I wouldn't say I have been unlucky with mine,in fact doing on Average 7k a year then it's been pretty good(No breakdown in 22 months anyway). One costly repair to the exhaust manifolds has not done me any favors to my blog Average that's for sure,but even my Chimaera 400 has running costs of £396 per month including fuel to cover those miles. Without the fuel it's still £250 a month to maintain when putting double the mileage of most users.

I think you already hit the nail on the head,that any car if your unlucky what ever brand or age can end up costing a fortune. Just read the Porsche forums and see how many engines have gone bang,I bet you most of those owners buying a Porsche thought they would be safe.


Willtl

Original Poster:

135 posts

108 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
gruffalo said:
A rule of thumb is to put away £250 a month into the car fund and that will cover you for your Cerbera related costs.
Is this on top of insurance, tax, petrol and consumables (such as tyres)? I was thinking (hoping!) £100 per month on top of the four items I listed, but guess I'm living in dream world. What is the average life of a gearbox and clutch and how much do they cost? My driving style is pretty clutch friendly and the only clutch I've ever had changed was on my old Ford Capri (but given that engine, gearbox, clutch and pretty much every important part needed replacing I don't put that on me).

ukkid35

6,138 posts

172 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
gruffalo said:
Mechanically they are very strong with the weakest link probably being the gearbox.
I might not have found the correct official spec, but a quick search suggests that the T5WC is good for 330ftlb, however a half decent AJP8 will produce 350ftlb or more, some are much more.

That is why I have driven to Stamford in my 928 for the Burghley house meet, but my Cerb is on axle stands at home. My 227k mile 928 is just so much more reliable than my Cerb it is laughable.


Gazzab

21,061 posts

281 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
I have had tvrs for most of the last 18 years. Unusual to spend less than a grand in servicing and repairs. Have had a few £5k plus years. Can't really compare cerbs to chimp as my chimp was under Tvr warranty. But in that car the depreciation was worse than the running costs. With an older Tvr there is sod all depreciation and maybe appreciation. So if the running costs (repairs and servicing) are under £3k ps then in my view its a bargain.
I have 3 other cars and two of those have been more expensive than the Cerb for the last 2 or 3 years. The d2 probably £2k pa and the D3 probably £3k pa (plus depreciation).

Jubag

113 posts

115 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
AJP8 is a very good engine. It's major service is somothing like every 24k. In between that its like any other engine as far as I'm concerned, it wants new filters and oil and the rest is pot luck as with any other car. Coil packs are pocket change compared with say a Honda Civic type r or 997 and last a lot longer than the latter and that is a fact. If you want one just buy one. Here's the thing, if you went out and bought a 997 you could look forward to worrying about... Water and oil mix in the oil filler tube to the extent that you will believe a head gasket has gone. Intermediate shaft bearing break up. Engine main oil seal giving up the ghost. If I remember right number 6 cylinder overheating and bore scoring. Rusty disc brakes the moment thay are exposed to the merest atom of water. What I'm trying to say is, with the exception of the 928, you can pick any car, rip it to shreds and theoreticaly cost your self a fortune sitting in your arm chair.

Buy a Cerb...
Drive it....
Love it.

Shanksy87

370 posts

121 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
I've only owned a Cerb so can't comment too much with reference to other TVR's but the Cerbera will have your trousers down unless you buy a good one and keep it looked after. I bought a cosmetically very tidy car with good history, engine rebuild etc but there have still been vast swathe's of the car needing attention that mean i'm looking at £6k all in for 3000 miles this year with the same again next to continue the neglect reversal.

But, they are somewhat unique and I can't personally put a price on the smiles per mile. Just don't lull yourself into the notion it can't possibly do you for 4 figures to get something as it should be.

Gazzab

21,061 posts

281 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
The Tvr dealers I have spoken to refer to Cerberas as the most expensive Tvr to run (if you ignore the now largely historic s6 issues).

gmw9666

2,734 posts

199 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
This is one of those......does a tree make a noise when it falls over in a forest when no one is there to hear it lol

There is simply no one rule

A well cared for and looked after by previous owners will now cost less year over year than one that hasn't regardless of what tvr it is IMHO

PGNCerbera

2,926 posts

165 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
Mechanically strong.

Piss poor electrics.
And starter motors.
And clutches. My car's on 33k and having done a spreadsheet recently off all the costs was amazed at how many clutches and master cylinders it's gone through. It's now been treated to an uprated clutch. Fingers crossed !

3k to cover servicing and tyres and pads seems right if you're doing around 5-6k miles a year, with a few trackdays thrown in.


Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
The other big issue.. Are you doing your own spannering or paying someone?! That will make a massive difference.. EG. New throttle pots go from £60 and your time to a £370 fix if you get a garage to do it.

Pursyluv

1,927 posts

173 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
My TVR experience is as follows:-

Cerbera - 14 months ownership £4k spent on a service plus lots lots more

Tamora - 50 months ownership £4k spent on servicing plus a few bits and pieces

The Cerb has since needed a new clutch and a new engine, admittedly very rare for a 4.5, if in doubt contact Jackwibble.

All that said, when my head has burnt sufficiently I'll go back to a Cerb of some sort........hopefully Aide's

Gazzab

21,061 posts

281 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
What this thread misses is the skimping... There are tons of cerbs that are run with problems ignored/left/unnoticed by owners. Many Tvr garages these days have to waste tons of time trying to help customers decide what they aren going to fix or how to bodge it.
Same with lots of marques. I sold my D2 today. I think the buyer got a bargain as chassis perfect, engine replaced, suspension air bags replaced and all small niggles attended to (and hardly a scratch on the bodywork). Most of the comparable d2's out there are all pending money pits. I've already spent the money, lucky new owner.

Pursyluv

1,927 posts

173 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
Yep it's a minefield, for me I'd only buy a known car from someone on PH whose name is Aide hehe........ Or yours Mr B if the price was right smile

Gazzab

21,061 posts

281 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
Pursyluv said:
Yep it's a minefield, for me I'd only buy a known car from someone on PH whose name is Aide hehe........ Or yours Mr B if the price was right smile
Wouldn't dream of selling mine - it has a wheel that needs a refurb, has a stone chip, a small scratch on the wing and a rattle from the exhaust. All that needs addressing. Almost undriveable as it is ;-)

Cerberaherts

1,651 posts

140 months

Friday 10th April 2015
quotequote all
Jubag said:
AJP8 is a very good engine. It's major service is somothing like every 24k. In between that its like any other engine as far as I'm concerned, it wants new filters and oil and the rest is pot luck as with any other car. Coil packs are pocket change compared with say a Honda Civic type r or 997 and last a lot longer than the latter and that is a fact. If you want one just buy one. Here's the thing, if you went out and bought a 997 you could look forward to worrying about... Water and oil mix in the oil filler tube to the extent that you will believe a head gasket has gone. Intermediate shaft bearing break up. Engine main oil seal giving up the ghost. If I remember right number 6 cylinder overheating and bore scoring. Rusty disc brakes the moment thay are exposed to the merest atom of water. What I'm trying to say is, with the exception of the 928, you can pick any car, rip it to shreds and theoreticaly cost your self a fortune sitting in your arm chair.

Buy a Cerb...
Drive it....
Love it.
Don't know where you got this information from, but I work on a lot of Porsche, and I can tell you that 997 coil packs are 28 quid. No problem with the IMS bearing on the 997 either. Your thinking of the 996 and boxster engine. Even then, if you extrapolate the number of IMS failures compared to the number of vehicles produced you would find the percentage is small. Water and oil mix? Lots of short journeys cause that, same with any other car, likewise rear main seal, any engine, in any car, can suffer rear main leak, the 997 is no more prone. Rusty brake disks? Yes, washing a car fitted with cross-drilled discs then leaving the discs wet will cause them to corrode. Same applies to any car fitted with the same. I agree with the bore score issue you mention, but the rest is just mis-information.