Cheap Cerberas
Discussion
Why are they being so secretive about their plans? In my experience the only people who are interested in TVRs are the owners. Don't get me wrong, every man and his dog loves to look and listen to them but actually own one, no. So why not release some info and keep everyone interested, makes me think they don't have much to tell us about.
I imagine they're waiting till things are absolutely ready, rather than making announcements, then delays, then cancellations or changes.
Whilst I don't agree with some of how they've gone about their parts network, they do come across as doing things very professionally (at least compared to the ruskie).
Whilst I don't agree with some of how they've gone about their parts network, they do come across as doing things very professionally (at least compared to the ruskie).
Storer said:
I have owned a 1997 4.5 for about 7 years now and I am about to do a chassis refurbishment and general freshen up. When done I might sell her on so was curious about the range in prices.
Are you suggesting that most of the cars advertised for more than £20k are wishful thinking, or is the market moving up and that is the level that good one's should fetch?
Paul
So lets say £10-12K for a untouched example in reasonable condition. If you think a full body off chassis replacement by a specialist will cost you £5k, nearer £7.5k if you choose to replace everything possible whilst it's apart, then that may explain the price range. Certainly £16k-20k wouldn't be unreasonable for a car thats had all that sorted?Are you suggesting that most of the cars advertised for more than £20k are wishful thinking, or is the market moving up and that is the level that good one's should fetch?
Paul
I think 20k or even 23k is very reasonable for a fully sorted car with a full refurb including chassis and maybe a new and warrantied engine if it's a 6 pot. Damn sure I wouldn't let mine go for less than that having just spent 10k on everything it needed or was likley to need anytime soon. The point I was making is that because it is a 2003,4,5,6 does not mean a thing, it's still 10 years old and could be as rotten as peach, running on the original oil it left the factory with and about to spit a follower out of the cam cover. The newer ones may command a premium in the asking price but if you don't do your homework or pay someone to do it you could get a right money pit and an abused 2004 with the startings of chassis rot and a smokey engine is WORTH less than a mint 1997 regardless of what the owner asks for.
I am in a fortunate situation as I have a fully equipped workshop including metal fabrication equipment, media blaster and a paint booth.
This will see me doing all the work myself other than a bit of trimming and probably engine internals if needed.
Should prove an interesting project.
Paul
This will see me doing all the work myself other than a bit of trimming and probably engine internals if needed.
Should prove an interesting project.
Paul
So what is the consensus on the value of a Cerbera with no MOT?
I know it depends on condition, but if we assume it is a rotten chassis failure with the rest of the car OK?
I suspect if the chassis is rotten then the wishbones will also need attention. There is bound to be other stuff once the body is off and the bill rises......
I suppose what I am thinking is could there be an opportunity to buy, refurbish and sell on?
Paul
I know it depends on condition, but if we assume it is a rotten chassis failure with the rest of the car OK?
I suspect if the chassis is rotten then the wishbones will also need attention. There is bound to be other stuff once the body is off and the bill rises......
I suppose what I am thinking is could there be an opportunity to buy, refurbish and sell on?
Paul
I doubt you'd be able to buy a Cerbera, refurb the chassis and sell on for a profit, unless everything else was tip top and you'd bought the car for £5k (MOT or no MOT).
However, I do think if you want one of the best Cerberas, you've got the option of buying one of the cheapest at less than £8k, spending £20k on engine, chassis and ancillary work and you'll have a Cerbera in great condition, built to your liking that will need very little work other than scheduled maintenance for 20 years or more.
However, I do think if you want one of the best Cerberas, you've got the option of buying one of the cheapest at less than £8k, spending £20k on engine, chassis and ancillary work and you'll have a Cerbera in great condition, built to your liking that will need very little work other than scheduled maintenance for 20 years or more.
IF..... a big IF, I could buy one for £5k and refurbish it myself, I would like to think the materials/bits I would outsource would cost way less than £15k.
The chassis refurbishment is simple as is the cleaning and repaint (just time and a small material cost). I can (and have) build a stainless exhaust/manifold for the cost of some pipe and bends.
Wiring...............how hard can it be!! But I know a man who can.....if I can't.
I have lifting equipment for body removal and a car lift so working on the car is simple. I have experience in GF repairs/building and the painting is not an issue.
I have other sources of income and am semi retired, so this would be additional income and the facilities are already paid for. It also keeps the grey cells busy.
It is worth remembering that the specialists you use need to charge between £35 and £60 per hour to cover their costs. Rent, rates, electricity, labour, etc. etc. soon add up.
I may have this very wrong... and I will know by the time I have completed my own car.... but got to be worth a shot.
Paul
The chassis refurbishment is simple as is the cleaning and repaint (just time and a small material cost). I can (and have) build a stainless exhaust/manifold for the cost of some pipe and bends.
Wiring...............how hard can it be!! But I know a man who can.....if I can't.
I have lifting equipment for body removal and a car lift so working on the car is simple. I have experience in GF repairs/building and the painting is not an issue.
I have other sources of income and am semi retired, so this would be additional income and the facilities are already paid for. It also keeps the grey cells busy.
It is worth remembering that the specialists you use need to charge between £35 and £60 per hour to cover their costs. Rent, rates, electricity, labour, etc. etc. soon add up.
I may have this very wrong... and I will know by the time I have completed my own car.... but got to be worth a shot.
Paul
Be great to do the max yourself, as you are able to do the simple labouring type bits then rotten chassis is the way to go. The engine is the heart of the cerb and bar a simple refresh even with no labour costs it will soon add up in bespoke parts. How much do AJP8 engines go for on their own second hand? I'd guess £3k + with no guaranty.
I'm not sure there are many if any £5k cerbs out there with a good engine and rotten chassiS though. I suspect even a ropey Cerb will command the best part of £10k in the not very distant future, if not now.
I'm not sure there are many if any £5k cerbs out there with a good engine and rotten chassiS though. I suspect even a ropey Cerb will command the best part of £10k in the not very distant future, if not now.
"The chassis refurbishment is simple as is the cleaning and repaint (just time and a small material cost). "
well, no, not usually. By the time you spot the problem on the Cerbera it can and probably will be much worse than that. Mine has had the baked and rotted tubes either side of the engine replaced and the outriggers right back to the central spine. Richard at RT who does them all day everyday says that is by no means unusual and he sees much worse. This was a mid 2000 car well looked after, garaged with 44k on it. It has done 10,000 miles since 2007 and spent all that time in a garage so dry that not even the MG Maestro next to it rotted, this indicates that much, if not all that rot was present when I bought it and hidden under the lovely fresh Schutz on the outriggers.
Much of the chassis parts require very precise and complicated bends and a jig to get it straight during and after. A 5k Cerbera, even with a dead engine is likely to be in the "very bad indeed" category so far as the chassis is concerned. I have 2500 sq ft of warm dry workshop facilities at home, post lift, MIG, TIG and every imaginable tool but I don't have a 20 grand computer controlled bending machine or a Cerbera jig so despite all the facilities I have I still had to entrust it to Richard. You might get lucky and find a car for 5k where the owner thought the chassis was rotten and the engine was fubar and was wrong on both counts but people that stupid are a rare commodity.
well, no, not usually. By the time you spot the problem on the Cerbera it can and probably will be much worse than that. Mine has had the baked and rotted tubes either side of the engine replaced and the outriggers right back to the central spine. Richard at RT who does them all day everyday says that is by no means unusual and he sees much worse. This was a mid 2000 car well looked after, garaged with 44k on it. It has done 10,000 miles since 2007 and spent all that time in a garage so dry that not even the MG Maestro next to it rotted, this indicates that much, if not all that rot was present when I bought it and hidden under the lovely fresh Schutz on the outriggers.
Much of the chassis parts require very precise and complicated bends and a jig to get it straight during and after. A 5k Cerbera, even with a dead engine is likely to be in the "very bad indeed" category so far as the chassis is concerned. I have 2500 sq ft of warm dry workshop facilities at home, post lift, MIG, TIG and every imaginable tool but I don't have a 20 grand computer controlled bending machine or a Cerbera jig so despite all the facilities I have I still had to entrust it to Richard. You might get lucky and find a car for 5k where the owner thought the chassis was rotten and the engine was fubar and was wrong on both counts but people that stupid are a rare commodity.
Storer said:
The chassis refurbishment is simple as is the cleaning and repaint (just time and a small material cost). I can (and have) build a stainless exhaust/manifold for the cost of some pipe and bends.
Bearing in mind I kept a really good eye on mine, and this rotted through from the top so was unnoticeable until I went at a rusty patch.
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