Valuation article in Sprint
Discussion
How can someone write an article for a single marque, enthusiast's magazine while seemingly having no clue? It beggars belief. That RAMOND openly admits he has no idea how much a Cerbera is worth speaks volumes - my mother may as well have written the article. In actual fact, she would have probably made a better job of the values.
"Enthusiasts" talking down values and V8 GRF talking twaddle... Just a normal day on PH!
"Enthusiasts" talking down values and V8 GRF talking twaddle... Just a normal day on PH!
ks as anyone can see by looking at the classifieds. Sprint does regularly print pointless articles, which I can live with it must be difficult to fill it every month. But printing ill informed crap is indefensible. ....robsco said:
How can someone write an article for a single marque, enthusiast's magazine while seemingly having no clue? It beggars belief. That RAMOND openly admits he has no idea how much a Cerbera is worth speaks volumes - my mother may as well have written the article. In actual fact, she would have probably made a better job of the values.
"Enthusiasts" talking down values and V8 GRF talking twaddle... Just a normal day on PH!
I had no reason to acquaint myself with TVRs valuations for the article, as the article was about how to make your own valuation, not give them. I have a general idea of TVR values and if I wrote an article with regards to them, I would research this area properly."Enthusiasts" talking down values and V8 GRF talking twaddle... Just a normal day on PH!
RAMOND said:
Ok, looking at the valuations given in respect to the Chimaera as I own one, I would say that IMHO they look reasonable.
Sorry guy's I know I'm on the Cerbera forum but this statement is also out.Fair price for a 400 £4,400 is impossible.
Concours 400 £12,000 when one has just sold at £21,995 and many good/excellent advertised 15-18k
They are all out... the Cerbera's having the worst end of the stick,but the fair price was pretty much not worth printing.
Ramond I appreciate you saying you had nothing to do with this section but being a Chimaera owner yourself surely if you had proofread that section alone then wouldn't little bells be heard ringing.
Edited
Ramond I just read a post where you never saw this article... apologies for the proofreading bit,but your comment still means you know little about your own model.
Edited by TVRJAS on Saturday 18th July 00:18
If we're being honest chaps this article makes bugger all difference really, as only a small number of the buying population have been exposed to it. If it was a feature in auto trader then that'd be different.
Have a couple of drinks and chuckle in the knowledge it's not hugely accurate.
Have a couple of drinks and chuckle in the knowledge it's not hugely accurate.
I am not sure why people are so upset by this article, yes I agree the prices are a little on the low side but something is only ever worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and that is itself is very subjective. I have my Griff insured for a agreed value of £27,000 with my insurer yet the article states a concourse Griff is only worth £22,000. Am I enraged by this and badmouthing the people who wrote the article? no. The person who wrote the table are entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to mine. The fact I have had mine independently valued and the insurer has agreed to a figure is all that matters.
I personally think although perhaps the article has not been received in the way it was intended it has certainly done it's job of raising awareness and will prompt owners to seek valuations for their cars and add agreed values to their policies.
What is most surprising about this thread is not the usual PH keyboard warriors but the comments made by Jools from Kits and Classics towards one of the TVRCC editors, i think this is very unprofessional and disappointing from a reputable and respected TVR specialist, especially when you consider the work that goes into Sprint from enthusiasts who volunteer their time to create the publication.
I personally think although perhaps the article has not been received in the way it was intended it has certainly done it's job of raising awareness and will prompt owners to seek valuations for their cars and add agreed values to their policies.
What is most surprising about this thread is not the usual PH keyboard warriors but the comments made by Jools from Kits and Classics towards one of the TVRCC editors, i think this is very unprofessional and disappointing from a reputable and respected TVR specialist, especially when you consider the work that goes into Sprint from enthusiasts who volunteer their time to create the publication.
spitfire4v8 said:
What a load of absolute tosh.
spitfire4v8 said:
Quoted for the LMFAO factor 
MPoxon said:
I am not sure why people are so upset by this article, yes I agree the prices are a little on the low side but something is only ever worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and that is itself is very subjective. I have my Griff insured for a agreed value of £27,000 with my insurer yet the article states a concourse Griff is only worth £22,000. Am I enraged by this and badmouthing the people who wrote the article? no. The person who wrote the table are entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to mine. The fact I have had mine independently valued and the insurer has agreed to a figure is all that matters.
I personally think although perhaps the article has not been received in the way it was intended it has certainly done it's job of raising awareness and will prompt owners to seek valuations for their cars and add agreed values to their policies.
What is most surprising about this thread is not the usual PH keyboard warriors but the comments made by Jools from Kits and Classics towards one of the TVRCC editors, i think this is very unprofessional and disappointing from a reputable and respected TVR specialist, especially when you consider the work that goes into Sprint from enthusiasts who volunteer their time to create the publication
Well there are a few reasons first off it might have something to do with the fact that the figures are so dramatically wrong. ....14k for a concours Cerb!!! That's half a half price Cerb for you there sir! Your Griff valuation was 5k above the guidelines, fair enough but try roughly 15k out! Did no one in the whole of Sprint smell a rat!? These are knowledgable TVR owners no??I personally think although perhaps the article has not been received in the way it was intended it has certainly done it's job of raising awareness and will prompt owners to seek valuations for their cars and add agreed values to their policies.
What is most surprising about this thread is not the usual PH keyboard warriors but the comments made by Jools from Kits and Classics towards one of the TVRCC editors, i think this is very unprofessional and disappointing from a reputable and respected TVR specialist, especially when you consider the work that goes into Sprint from enthusiasts who volunteer their time to create the publication
It's irresponsible to publish stuff like this when clearly there is no proper research behind it and the responses I have seen don't make much sense either. Like you my car is independently valued but that's besides the point, the best thing to do would be admit the mistake, job done.
I might be incorrect and I am sure people are not going to like what I type....but I thought Sprint (and the club) was an independent publication and not affiliated to TVR in any way, if so.....
1) As long as what they print isn't illegal or defamatory then in no way are they answerable to anyone for any article printed other than their subscribers. In fact you could argue that by reprinting what they published on here then people are in breach of copyright.
2) Since its an independent publication they can print articles on whatever they like. They are well within their rights to fill an entire issue up with a guide to the religious beliefs of cross dressing transexuals if they like.
I don't agree with the values either and as I stated right at the start of this thread I have very recent first hand knowledge of selling a Cerbera to know the values are nonsense. However while I can say the values are nonsense I have no right to start calling for the Editor or the writer to justify the article as I am not a member of the TVRCC, nor does anyone else who is not a member. If you want that right pay the bloody £56 or whatever it is and join!
1) As long as what they print isn't illegal or defamatory then in no way are they answerable to anyone for any article printed other than their subscribers. In fact you could argue that by reprinting what they published on here then people are in breach of copyright.
2) Since its an independent publication they can print articles on whatever they like. They are well within their rights to fill an entire issue up with a guide to the religious beliefs of cross dressing transexuals if they like.
I don't agree with the values either and as I stated right at the start of this thread I have very recent first hand knowledge of selling a Cerbera to know the values are nonsense. However while I can say the values are nonsense I have no right to start calling for the Editor or the writer to justify the article as I am not a member of the TVRCC, nor does anyone else who is not a member. If you want that right pay the bloody £56 or whatever it is and join!
MPoxon said:
I am not sure why people are so upset by this article, yes I agree the prices are a little on the low side but something is only ever worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and that is itself is very subjective. I have my Griff insured for a agreed value of £27,000 with my insurer yet the article states a concourse Griff is only worth £22,000. Am I enraged by this and badmouthing the people who wrote the article? no. The person who wrote the table are entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to mine. The fact I have had mine independently valued and the insurer has agreed to a figure is all that matters.
I personally think although perhaps the article has not been received in the way it was intended it has certainly done it's job of raising awareness and will prompt owners to seek valuations for their cars and add agreed values to their policies.
What is most surprising about this thread is not the usual PH keyboard warriors but the comments made by Jools from Kits and Classics towards one of the TVRCC editors, i think this is very unprofessional and disappointing from a reputable and respected TVR specialist, especially when you consider the work that goes into Sprint from enthusiasts who volunteer their time to create the publication.
Really - why did you do that?! Too many ales last night? You are welcome to not be bothered by it but that post is just a personalised stir. There are no warriors. The valuations are pish. Of course owners will be unhappy and for good reason. You arent bothered, thats fine. I certainly wouldnt want my insurer turning round and halving the payout because of this. Ultimately Sprint editors and contributors have to stand up and be counted when it comes to their articles - being paid is irrelevant. Respect is earned and easily lost. Its not there by default. I personally think although perhaps the article has not been received in the way it was intended it has certainly done it's job of raising awareness and will prompt owners to seek valuations for their cars and add agreed values to their policies.
What is most surprising about this thread is not the usual PH keyboard warriors but the comments made by Jools from Kits and Classics towards one of the TVRCC editors, i think this is very unprofessional and disappointing from a reputable and respected TVR specialist, especially when you consider the work that goes into Sprint from enthusiasts who volunteer their time to create the publication.
spitfire4v8 said:
What a load of absolute tosh.
spitfire4v8 said:
Quoted for the LMFAO factor
Gazzab said:
Ultimately Sprint editors and contributors have to stand up and be counted when it comes to their articles - being paid is irrelevant.
Absolutely agree - but only to their subscribers, which quite clearly some people calling for them to be 'stand up and be counted' aren'tPuffsBack said:
Gazzab said:
Ultimately Sprint editors and contributors have to stand up and be counted when it comes to their articles - being paid is irrelevant.
Absolutely agree - but only to their subscribers, which quite clearly some people calling for them to be 'stand up and be counted' aren'tGazzab said:
Take your point but its a moot point and distracts from the debate. The valuations are wrong and Sprint should resolve the situation. I may not be a member but I dont believe thats relevant. I was a member but cancelled as the mags went straight in the bin.
Was there a valuation for Sagaris's. If so that will probably make this debate look sane! 
I think its only one opinion so doesn't carry weight is fair line to take, but it is a very naive one.
The issue I have is the potential damage to the climbing values of all 'HeritageTVR's'. Rightly or wrongly this article could be seen as a definitive pricing structure not only by insurers, as previous posters have highlighted, but more importantly by those seeking to buy into a classic TVR. It has the potential to slow or drive prices down after many years of stagnation of the marque when compared to other brands such as Porsche, which is a healthy climbing market.
Les Edgar has come down in favour of the club, he is a member, a Griff(?) driver and is offering a discount on the deposit on the new car in 2 years time to members. So the club like it or not does carry some weight.
Taken in extremis, if it does knock TVRs off the current price realignment path with other classic sport cars it has the potential to undermine those looking to trade into the new car using the classic as part payment on the new. It also has the potential to demotivated all buyers, pre existing owners and new ones, in buying the new car if the predicted residuals are impacted by the lack of historic ability of the marque to hold its own against the competition.
It is an ill executed article that even the author is distancing himself from the pricing figures. In short it has the potential to and IMHO will, if not checked, damage not just the Heritage cars but TVR going forward.
The issue I have is the potential damage to the climbing values of all 'HeritageTVR's'. Rightly or wrongly this article could be seen as a definitive pricing structure not only by insurers, as previous posters have highlighted, but more importantly by those seeking to buy into a classic TVR. It has the potential to slow or drive prices down after many years of stagnation of the marque when compared to other brands such as Porsche, which is a healthy climbing market.
Les Edgar has come down in favour of the club, he is a member, a Griff(?) driver and is offering a discount on the deposit on the new car in 2 years time to members. So the club like it or not does carry some weight.
Taken in extremis, if it does knock TVRs off the current price realignment path with other classic sport cars it has the potential to undermine those looking to trade into the new car using the classic as part payment on the new. It also has the potential to demotivated all buyers, pre existing owners and new ones, in buying the new car if the predicted residuals are impacted by the lack of historic ability of the marque to hold its own against the competition.
It is an ill executed article that even the author is distancing himself from the pricing figures. In short it has the potential to and IMHO will, if not checked, damage not just the Heritage cars but TVR going forward.
When arranging an agreed value with my insurers, the underwriter insisted that the agent supplied valuations from a number of sources specifically including any owners club magazines. Had these figures been drawn to the attention of the underwriter I very much doubt that I would have been able to agree a valuation for my fully restored 4.7 example. If it came to a pay out, in view of that published guide to values I would now expect the insurers to start asking if that agreed value is a realistic valuation.
Sprint and TVRCC is not only actively damaging the brand but doing a grave misservice to all Cerbera owners regardless of whether they are members of the TVRCC or not!
Sprint and TVRCC is not only actively damaging the brand but doing a grave misservice to all Cerbera owners regardless of whether they are members of the TVRCC or not!
Why do certain TVRcc members feel the need to defend the club no matter what criticism is made towards it, even when it is so obvious they are in the wrong. The valuations given here are so clearly wrong why can't they just accept they made a mistake.
By trying to defend it you just make the club look like idoits, it's a big turn off for both members and non members. By arguing the clubs defence you just end up alienating people, it's hardly a good way of attracting new members or old members back.
To say the club doesn't have to answer to non club members is a joke when what they print could harm the value of all of our cars.
TVR buyers guide
1. Don't joint the TVRcc
2. Don't believe anything that comes out of the TVRcc
3. Don't upset V8 GRF or men with beards will come!
By trying to defend it you just make the club look like idoits, it's a big turn off for both members and non members. By arguing the clubs defence you just end up alienating people, it's hardly a good way of attracting new members or old members back.
To say the club doesn't have to answer to non club members is a joke when what they print could harm the value of all of our cars.
TVR buyers guide
1. Don't joint the TVRcc
2. Don't believe anything that comes out of the TVRcc
3. Don't upset V8 GRF or men with beards will come!
Edited by XK120FHC on Saturday 18th July 11:22
Fair enough, Sprint magazine doesn't have to explain itself to non members like me. I would love to see how those valuations were worked out, I can only assume the author or of them had a 10 year old Auto Trader that he had a quick flick through while taking a cr#p. If I'm wrong please stand up and show me instead of hiding and keeping quiet about your mistake.
I was about to become a member after recently becoming an owner but listening to some of the rubbish from the hierarchy I'm going to put £50 of fuel in my Cerbera and use it properly.
I was about to become a member after recently becoming an owner but listening to some of the rubbish from the hierarchy I'm going to put £50 of fuel in my Cerbera and use it properly.
Edited by harry henderson on Saturday 18th July 13:38
Funny enough I'm a lapsed TVRCC member and have owned TVRs as second cars for the last 14 years. As a non member i've had to pay the full fat deposit on the new 2017 TVR, I think that might show a little more to the marque that buying a 4 grand chim 7 months ago...I did say at that time offering discount deposits to members only was devisive.
Regardless of all that I had reconsidered rejoining the club, as I said Les is a member and favours the club and its membership and didn't want to miss out on any events leading up to its launch that may be for 'club members only'. However this debacle reminds me why I left the club. If come 2 years down the line the price of my Cerbera has taken a nose dive, then I'm afraid there is a real possibility I will keep the Cerbera and cancel my deposit on the new car. That is the real world implications of an article from the specialist marque club magazine can have.
I repeat it is an ill thought through article that has the potential to damage the marque, past present and future...
Regardless of all that I had reconsidered rejoining the club, as I said Les is a member and favours the club and its membership and didn't want to miss out on any events leading up to its launch that may be for 'club members only'. However this debacle reminds me why I left the club. If come 2 years down the line the price of my Cerbera has taken a nose dive, then I'm afraid there is a real possibility I will keep the Cerbera and cancel my deposit on the new car. That is the real world implications of an article from the specialist marque club magazine can have.
I repeat it is an ill thought through article that has the potential to damage the marque, past present and future...
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