Valuation article in Sprint
Discussion
The Article said:
"there is also www.webuyanycar.com which dealers often use for a quick check of trade prices."
..the possible root of all this evil. Likely used by some less ethical dealers when you're trading in your car to convince you it's worth a lot less than you thought. I don't even live in the UK, but am well aware of that site and it would be the last place I'd look for actual values. 
So moving on, it would be very decent of the club magazine to publish a correction/retraction asap, yes?
It's both a waste of time and effort to argue.
A table of values has been put forward and a method of describing the car in detail.
It's clear that in many people's opinion the two don't match.
The difficulty is that the seller always thinks a car is at a higher price point than the buyer, we can only see the sellers starting point.
We could make something good of this. What we all need is real data.
Can we ask everyone who has recently bought a car to reveal to us all both the condition of the car (as detailed against the measurement criteria in the article) and the price they actually paid. With this information a true picture of values could be built up and published in Sprint. If people are prepared to be honest then perhaps we can get a true picture if TVR values today.
Let's be constructive and do something for the good of all.
A table of values has been put forward and a method of describing the car in detail.
It's clear that in many people's opinion the two don't match.
The difficulty is that the seller always thinks a car is at a higher price point than the buyer, we can only see the sellers starting point.
We could make something good of this. What we all need is real data.
Can we ask everyone who has recently bought a car to reveal to us all both the condition of the car (as detailed against the measurement criteria in the article) and the price they actually paid. With this information a true picture of values could be built up and published in Sprint. If people are prepared to be honest then perhaps we can get a true picture if TVR values today.
Let's be constructive and do something for the good of all.
Jhonno said:
I can also say, those values weren't even right when I bought mine 3yrs ago.
Yep but they were spot on 6 years ago when I bought mine.Bought a 2000 X reg 4.5LW (not really a LW)for £14.5k, a car that was described as "mint" by a well known car inspector and very well respected figure within TVR circles.
What also needs to be known is how accurate the sellers description turned out to be, 12 months later and my total investment was £18k, since selling the car it has had a new clutch and engine (yes an AJP gone bang!!)
Go figure that lot
I know of a 98 cerbera that's just sold, drivers seat is torn and there's a mark on the dash, needs outriggers and some paintwork .. so maybe 4-5k of work depending how bad things are. It's sold for 12k so total price is going to be 16-17k for what will then be a nice and usable 4.2 (also has some engine upgrades) and that sounds about right at this time for a lightly recommissioned car.
I paid £16k for my 2000 4.5LW 6 years ago. I'd say its condition is good/excellent, following a front end respray recently a well known specialist said I could expect between £22k - £25k if I were to sell it now.
Not sure if it's a genuine lightweight but the bonnet seems very floppy compared to other Cerbs I've seen so could it be one of the 6 genuine lightweights?? How do I find out for sure if it is?
Not sure if it's a genuine lightweight but the bonnet seems very floppy compared to other Cerbs I've seen so could it be one of the 6 genuine lightweights?? How do I find out for sure if it is?
I was stunned when I read the article in Sprint. I've no idea what planet the person who compiled the valuations is on, certainly not planet earth! It's a disgrace that the official club could print such an inaccurate article. Whomever approved that should be ashamed of themselves and a retraction or a revised price guide should be printed in the next edition.
For the purposes of compiling a more accurate guide: Mine is a 2004 4.2 in very good condition. If it had a front end respray I'd say it would be in excellent condition. It's got a file full of invoices for work done with a lot of money having been spent on it. Based on current prices I'd be expecting £23 - £24K.
For the purposes of compiling a more accurate guide: Mine is a 2004 4.2 in very good condition. If it had a front end respray I'd say it would be in excellent condition. It's got a file full of invoices for work done with a lot of money having been spent on it. Based on current prices I'd be expecting £23 - £24K.
Gazzab said:
Well the silence from the club is a bit disappointing.
Totally Gazzab, this could have been quelled so easily by the club.WHat would it have taken to come on and either explain how they came to the figures they did or indeed raise a hand, accept that they dropped a b
k and will set the record straight in the next edition etc. That would have then been the occurance dealt with, however, but not uttering a word IMO it just shows what contempt the Club has for us. Poor form folks, not impressed!
B3NNL said:
Gazzab said:
Well the silence from the club is a bit disappointing.
Totally Gazzab, this could have been quelled so easily by the club.WHat would it have taken to come on and either explain how they came to the figures they did or indeed raise a hand, accept that they dropped a b
k and will set the record straight in the next edition etc. That would have then been the occurance dealt with, however, but not uttering a word IMO it just shows what contempt the Club has for us. Poor form folks, not impressed!
We've had the authour, deputy editor and Cerbera lead all say they don't know where the figures came from. I suspect they are still trying to understand where in the publishing process the figures were inserted.
Well this is embarrassing. how sprint can allow a publication to go to print without it being properly proofed. I can understand a typo or grammatical errors but on something as fundamental as valuations surely the people in charge cannot let something as contentious go public without it being bullet proofed.
Somebody has put this table together, and somebody has authorised its publication.
As the "leading" mag of this marque, and with not a huge line up in its history you would think they would be right on the pulse.
The only conclusions I can draw is there is some serious incompetence, or someone is trying to undervalue certain models.
If the latter are there really people out there who are so bitter towards certain models because of how they are perceived?
TVR are relaunching, they seem to be developing a network across the country and there should be a lot of reassurance out there for owners like me.
Some of the reponses on V8GRF post are clearly plucked from the air. The claim about parts leads me to think there maybe some incompetence........ Do they have any relationship with the new TVR owners? I guess they don't even bother with the website. .......
Whether you’re carrying out a full restoration or merely looking for a single, particular part for your cherished TVR, you’ll want the comfort of fitting TVR Genuine Parts. But how can you be sure that’s what you’re getting?
Our stock of original parts comprises a mix of what was left in the stores after the Blackpool factory closed, together with stock from OEMs that originally supplied products for the old cars. Where such parts no longer exist, TVR has opened its archives and authorised the use of its extensive library of technical drawings to facilitate the remanufacture of replacement parts guaranteed to match, or exceed, the performance defined by the original specifications.
So They expect us to take the word of an anonymous specialist over an official TVR statement?
I'm not bothered, I don't care what they think it's worth, they are not the be all and end all and if I want to insure my car for a certain value then there will be plenty of companies willing to take my money for it.
However sprint has made a complete ass of itself and rightly deserve to be questioned on it and they fact they have just passed the buck round themselves and not held their hands up they should expect to take lots of stick (especially from members)
Somebody has put this table together, and somebody has authorised its publication.
As the "leading" mag of this marque, and with not a huge line up in its history you would think they would be right on the pulse.
The only conclusions I can draw is there is some serious incompetence, or someone is trying to undervalue certain models.
If the latter are there really people out there who are so bitter towards certain models because of how they are perceived?
TVR are relaunching, they seem to be developing a network across the country and there should be a lot of reassurance out there for owners like me.
Some of the reponses on V8GRF post are clearly plucked from the air. The claim about parts leads me to think there maybe some incompetence........ Do they have any relationship with the new TVR owners? I guess they don't even bother with the website. .......
Whether you’re carrying out a full restoration or merely looking for a single, particular part for your cherished TVR, you’ll want the comfort of fitting TVR Genuine Parts. But how can you be sure that’s what you’re getting?
Our stock of original parts comprises a mix of what was left in the stores after the Blackpool factory closed, together with stock from OEMs that originally supplied products for the old cars. Where such parts no longer exist, TVR has opened its archives and authorised the use of its extensive library of technical drawings to facilitate the remanufacture of replacement parts guaranteed to match, or exceed, the performance defined by the original specifications.
So They expect us to take the word of an anonymous specialist over an official TVR statement?
I'm not bothered, I don't care what they think it's worth, they are not the be all and end all and if I want to insure my car for a certain value then there will be plenty of companies willing to take my money for it.
However sprint has made a complete ass of itself and rightly deserve to be questioned on it and they fact they have just passed the buck round themselves and not held their hands up they should expect to take lots of stick (especially from members)
Gazzab said:
Harry I don't think an apology requires an analysis of the procedures to be completed.
I don't think a retraction/correction is off the cards, lets see what happens next with the next issue of Sprint. I don't want to go over the points I orignally made, I feel strongly that they are still very pertinent and valid.
The Club will be judged by [me] what they do next. Lets hope it is the right thing for the sake of the Marque and not one born from protecting silly errors in the magazine.
Does anyone think they may be trying to talk down the older version of TVR as in make getting the new breed more desirable?
I cant see what more the new 4.5 cosworth V8 (with same DNA apparently) will have over the ajp/4.5SS rebuilt cars that have been well looked after and upgraded. as having non original TVR parts to a certain extent make the cars better i.e Nitron/Gaz over the Bilstien, Brake upgrades etc so I can only think they are trying to turn the used car market off by restricting cheap sales and therefore buyers will get frustrated and go and get the new breed.
I think I can see a club within a club coming. Original TVR and the New TVR
Just my thoughts no offence meant anywhere
I cant see what more the new 4.5 cosworth V8 (with same DNA apparently) will have over the ajp/4.5SS rebuilt cars that have been well looked after and upgraded. as having non original TVR parts to a certain extent make the cars better i.e Nitron/Gaz over the Bilstien, Brake upgrades etc so I can only think they are trying to turn the used car market off by restricting cheap sales and therefore buyers will get frustrated and go and get the new breed.
I think I can see a club within a club coming. Original TVR and the New TVR
Just my thoughts no offence meant anywhere
XK120FHC said:
I paid £16k for my 2000 4.5LW 6 years ago. I'd say its condition is good/excellent, following a front end respray recently a well known specialist said I could expect between £22k - £25k if I were to sell it now.
Not sure if it's a genuine lightweight but the bonnet seems very floppy compared to other Cerbs I've seen so could it be one of the 6 genuine lightweights?? How do I find out for sure if it is?
Weigh it???Not sure if it's a genuine lightweight but the bonnet seems very floppy compared to other Cerbs I've seen so could it be one of the 6 genuine lightweights?? How do I find out for sure if it is?
Incognegro, the easiest way to do that would be to kill the supply of parts and the fact they are supplying parts to their new network from old stock or providing the designs to re-manufacture unavailable parts suggests not. There is a big market supplying ''official'' TVR parts through their network of dealers and will give them lots of useful cash flow in the early days.
I also think the new car will be radically different from all TVR's, it will have the badge the power and look the part but will be far more usable. These guys may have a passion for TVR but are first and foremost business men and they will be looking to make this as successful as possible. I cant see the new TVR competing with the BAC's and AERO's of this world so will need to be as good at being an everyday car. Existing TVR owners are more likely to add the new car rather than exchange it as the old school TVR's will remain unique as the facts are you just cant make em like you use to!
If they do have the right plan and finance behind them they could turn TVR into a global superbrand like what has happened with JLR and AM, I'd like to then see what Sprint thinks of Cerbera valuations then.
I also think the new car will be radically different from all TVR's, it will have the badge the power and look the part but will be far more usable. These guys may have a passion for TVR but are first and foremost business men and they will be looking to make this as successful as possible. I cant see the new TVR competing with the BAC's and AERO's of this world so will need to be as good at being an everyday car. Existing TVR owners are more likely to add the new car rather than exchange it as the old school TVR's will remain unique as the facts are you just cant make em like you use to!
If they do have the right plan and finance behind them they could turn TVR into a global superbrand like what has happened with JLR and AM, I'd like to then see what Sprint thinks of Cerbera valuations then.
KNICKERS IN A TWIST (SHORTENED VERSION AND WITH THANKS TO BBC)
WARNING: NOT SUITABLE READING FOR SENSITIVE SOULS
A washing line
Does this washing line look perfect?
The script for this programme
Will: Hello, I'm William and here I am in Vera's garden to present the programme today…
Vera: Hi Will! Yes, I'm Vera, and well, before the programme I've got to hang up my washing!
Will: No problem, actually Vera that's quite handy to have you doing that as we have an expression to teach today that many people might find quite amusing. To get your knickers in a twist!
Vera: No, Will, my knickers are not twisted. I've got my knickers nicely hung here from this washing line, as are my blouses, my tablecloth, my jeans… What are you saying about my washing hanging technique? Do you think I'm not doing my washing right?
Will: Alright! Okay. Well, don't get your knickers in a twist!
Vera: Here you go again! Stop criticising my knickers! How about your own knickers? Maybe they are twisted!
Will: Well, okay, I must confess that sometimes … well, lots of times perhaps, I do get my knickers in a twist. And it's not when I am hanging up my washing. Knickers is a British word that refers to ladies' underwear – they're what Americans call panties. But 'to get your knickers in a twist' has got nothing to do with it: it can be used for either a man or a woman.
Vera: Oh, it has nothing to do with underwear?
Will: Exactly. That's right. It's an expression in English that you use when you want to say that someone is getting upset about things that are not important, trivial matters. Let's listen to some examples:
(Phone ringing)
Female 1: Your phone's been ringing all morning and you haven't bothered to pick it up.
Female 2: Alright! Alright! I will do it now. Don't get your knickers in a twist!
Male: My teenage son is very sensitive. Whenever I tell him to tidy up his room he gets his knickers in a twist and slams the door!
Vera: Ah, so it has nothing to do with knickers!
Will: That's right. And, by the way, the ones that you have hanging from your washing line aren't twisted either. You're doing a really great job, Vera.
Vera: Thank you, Will. But… I've been doing it for some 20 minutes but now I have to take them down! It's going to rain quite heavily and I won't have dry clothes to wear tomorrow… This is so annoying! Why does it have to rain so often? It is not fair! Just when I've managed to make some time to wash all these clothes. And even the pink and polka dot pyjamas I hate so much. Why can't my mother just give me socks or something else? She has never allowed me to wear what I like. When I was a teenager I wanted to wear miniskirts and she told me off.
Will: Here we go again! Knickers in a twist! Goodbye.
WARNING: NOT SUITABLE READING FOR SENSITIVE SOULS
A washing line
Does this washing line look perfect?
The script for this programme
Will: Hello, I'm William and here I am in Vera's garden to present the programme today…
Vera: Hi Will! Yes, I'm Vera, and well, before the programme I've got to hang up my washing!
Will: No problem, actually Vera that's quite handy to have you doing that as we have an expression to teach today that many people might find quite amusing. To get your knickers in a twist!
Vera: No, Will, my knickers are not twisted. I've got my knickers nicely hung here from this washing line, as are my blouses, my tablecloth, my jeans… What are you saying about my washing hanging technique? Do you think I'm not doing my washing right?
Will: Alright! Okay. Well, don't get your knickers in a twist!
Vera: Here you go again! Stop criticising my knickers! How about your own knickers? Maybe they are twisted!
Will: Well, okay, I must confess that sometimes … well, lots of times perhaps, I do get my knickers in a twist. And it's not when I am hanging up my washing. Knickers is a British word that refers to ladies' underwear – they're what Americans call panties. But 'to get your knickers in a twist' has got nothing to do with it: it can be used for either a man or a woman.
Vera: Oh, it has nothing to do with underwear?
Will: Exactly. That's right. It's an expression in English that you use when you want to say that someone is getting upset about things that are not important, trivial matters. Let's listen to some examples:
(Phone ringing)
Female 1: Your phone's been ringing all morning and you haven't bothered to pick it up.
Female 2: Alright! Alright! I will do it now. Don't get your knickers in a twist!
Male: My teenage son is very sensitive. Whenever I tell him to tidy up his room he gets his knickers in a twist and slams the door!
Vera: Ah, so it has nothing to do with knickers!
Will: That's right. And, by the way, the ones that you have hanging from your washing line aren't twisted either. You're doing a really great job, Vera.
Vera: Thank you, Will. But… I've been doing it for some 20 minutes but now I have to take them down! It's going to rain quite heavily and I won't have dry clothes to wear tomorrow… This is so annoying! Why does it have to rain so often? It is not fair! Just when I've managed to make some time to wash all these clothes. And even the pink and polka dot pyjamas I hate so much. Why can't my mother just give me socks or something else? She has never allowed me to wear what I like. When I was a teenager I wanted to wear miniskirts and she told me off.
Will: Here we go again! Knickers in a twist! Goodbye.
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