Valuation article in Sprint
Discussion
richard sails said:
XK120FHC said:
I thought Gazzab's post was taking the piss but you lot actually do want 20 meetings about beards to cook up an 'official response'.
I did not say that, I just said an 'Official' answer would require discussion before it would be official, one meeting would be enough. Otherwise its just an opinion of the poster, how could it be an official opinion before a number of members of the club have talked about it?I came on here to look for a way to improve the situation, not to enter into a pointless argument. For your information I am not convinced any of the values in that guide are accurate and like you I don't know how these values were obtained, however rather than just slag off the club or assume some complex conspiracy theory I would like to wait to find out.
As I have already pointed out it would be great if we tried to collate enough real data to produce some accurate numbers and I am pleased to say that I have already had a few emails from members with useful suggestions on that front.
This may well be my last post on this thread as I do not want to be involved with pointless arguments.
richard sails said:
I did not say that, I just said an 'Official' answer would require discussion before it would be official, one meeting would be enough. Otherwise its just an opinion of the poster, how could it be an official opinion before a number of members of the club have talked about it?
I came on here to look for a way to improve the situation, not to enter into a pointless argument. For your information I am not convinced any of the values in that guide are accurate and like you I don't know how these values were obtained, however rather than just slag off the club or assume some complex conspiracy theory I would like to wait to find out.
As I have already pointed out it would be great if we tried to collate enough real data to produce some accurate numbers and I am pleased to say that I have already had a few emails from members with useful suggestions on that front.
This may well be my last post on this thread as I do not want to be involved with pointless arguments.
It didn't take a meeting to publish the article in the first place .... The impact of the anonymous opinions expressed in an "offical" TVR enthusiasts club magazine can have impact on the selling prices of ALL TVR owners cars .I came on here to look for a way to improve the situation, not to enter into a pointless argument. For your information I am not convinced any of the values in that guide are accurate and like you I don't know how these values were obtained, however rather than just slag off the club or assume some complex conspiracy theory I would like to wait to find out.
As I have already pointed out it would be great if we tried to collate enough real data to produce some accurate numbers and I am pleased to say that I have already had a few emails from members with useful suggestions on that front.
This may well be my last post on this thread as I do not want to be involved with pointless arguments.
Gazzab said:
The club clearly still dont get it - just officially say 'oops we are looking into it'. You dont need a detailed data analysis to get a good price guide. See HarryW's post for example. If this was tracked for say 3 months then you'd have a reasonable pricing guide that could readily be refreshed.
Well I do 'get it' and I guess you'd say I am part of 'The Club' despite it being all of the members not just a 'few' as people like to think. There is no point coming on here to argue the toss, it doesn't solve anything and no knee jerk reactions/replies are needed.I think analysis of 3 months data IS detailed and would create a great pricing guide or reference. As Richard said there have been suggestions made along those lines and I have spoken to a number of people including indies/dealers who are willing to assist in that, so progress is being towards creating something more robust and accurate/current that frankly, has been missing for TVRs from any source.
We have a TVRCC committee meeting on Saturday so there's no long wait for any 'action', indeed we don't need a committee meeting to make decisions and something will be in the forthcoming Sprint. Which, as that is where this all originated in the first place, is the right place for it to be first, I'm sure it will be reported here
I'd like to make the following points
1. The authors and editor of Sprint have taken a fair beating in this forum and I think that on the whole they do a good job representing the TVR brand
2. The valuation article went a fair way to try and give the reader an appreciation for the sometimes considerable differences in value from one car to another. The article was pretty well written and quite a lot of thought had gone into it.
THAT HAVING BEEN SAID
3. The valuation table is completely ridiculous and should NEVER have been included
4. The Cerbera sticks out like a sore thumb at the bottom half of the table - a concours Chim is worth more than a concours Cerb??? or a 2004 concours Cerb is worth less than a 1999 good condition Tuscan - this clearly is not worth the paper it is written on. I get the impression it was written by someone who really does not like the Cerbera
5. It is quite possible that some of the other marques are under valued also but none so obvious as the Cerb - I'd like to see this rectified in some way
1. The authors and editor of Sprint have taken a fair beating in this forum and I think that on the whole they do a good job representing the TVR brand
2. The valuation article went a fair way to try and give the reader an appreciation for the sometimes considerable differences in value from one car to another. The article was pretty well written and quite a lot of thought had gone into it.
THAT HAVING BEEN SAID
3. The valuation table is completely ridiculous and should NEVER have been included
4. The Cerbera sticks out like a sore thumb at the bottom half of the table - a concours Chim is worth more than a concours Cerb??? or a 2004 concours Cerb is worth less than a 1999 good condition Tuscan - this clearly is not worth the paper it is written on. I get the impression it was written by someone who really does not like the Cerbera
5. It is quite possible that some of the other marques are under valued also but none so obvious as the Cerb - I'd like to see this rectified in some way
V8 GRF said:
I think analysis of 3 months data IS detailed and would create a great pricing guide or reference. As Richard said there have been suggestions made along those lines and I have spoken to a number of people including indies/dealers who are willing to assist in that, so progress is being towards creating something more robust and accurate/current that frankly, has been missing for TVRs from any source.
I was vocal protagonist against the valuation table. My main disappointment was not really around the numbers that were contained within, but more around the editorial process that allowed the Club to publish something so disparate with the apparent market values, in the official Club magazine. The one bastion where you would expect the brand and brand values to be held aloft. Alas, we are a couple of weeks on and a lot of the initial furore has died down.I think that the idea of a database is in principle a good idea, and would be more than willing to disclose what I paid for my Tuscan. What I would like to see, however, would be some sort of confidentiality, so that prices paid for individual vehicles cannot be ascertained, i.e. the lowest denominator would be vehicle (i.e. Cerb, Tuscan, Griff etc.) and condition (Concours, Good, Fair etc.). I cannot see many dealers/traders and possibly many private owners being ok with the idea of a TVR CC database of what they have sold/paid for individual vehicles (i.e. being able to identify a price for an individual vehicle based on registration plate, etc.); I suspect that this may allow unfair competition if traders etc. sought to exploit such information for their own gain. My sentiments might be wrong, however, as buy/sell prices of things such as house prices etc. are easily able to be ascertained these days.
Hmn.....oh dear oh dear.....what pickle "the club" has got itself into 
Quite clearly from posts on this thread, an article was written, submitted, but then changed by, at present unknown person(s), prior to publication but without consultation to
i) the author Error 1 or
ii) a person or group of more knowledgeable persons be they ROs or Committee members . Error 2.
So then the s
t hits the fan over here, and it's not just wrong on Cerbera values either, perhaps yes the worst case, but across the board !
Its been quoted prices were as for concours.....Fernhurst will sell concours Griffs for 40K plus all day long !
I am not a club member anymore either having been in the registrar committee post for six years (another sad and sorry case of club committee life at the end) after joining it at the same time as Richard Sails.
So, as I presume Ralph Dodds is no longer in the PR post, it is left to V8GRF to defend the situation as best he can here on PH, but judging by the responses he fails miserably to appease the masses....not surprising really without publishing any usefully discovered new facts to impart, or those that can be published. Error 3.
And still no explanation of who did what and when etc, not that that would be expected to released on here, but reserved for publishing on the club site together with an appropriate apology. Error 5.
To suggest that the solution is for people to advise the club of their subjective quality of car just purchased and the price paid is fair, but its never going to happen is it !?!? And would that only be club members ??? Traders are never going to join in the party are they.....publishing their sales data to an outside entity......really, come on !!!
Despite being a Cerbera owner I am not overly concerned and what's done is done, but it must be realised that this kanda fopar has done a great disservice to both club and non club owners alike when buying/selling and with insurers.
Quite clearly from posts on this thread, an article was written, submitted, but then changed by, at present unknown person(s), prior to publication but without consultation to
i) the author Error 1 or
ii) a person or group of more knowledgeable persons be they ROs or Committee members . Error 2.
So then the s
t hits the fan over here, and it's not just wrong on Cerbera values either, perhaps yes the worst case, but across the board !Its been quoted prices were as for concours.....Fernhurst will sell concours Griffs for 40K plus all day long !
I am not a club member anymore either having been in the registrar committee post for six years (another sad and sorry case of club committee life at the end) after joining it at the same time as Richard Sails.
So, as I presume Ralph Dodds is no longer in the PR post, it is left to V8GRF to defend the situation as best he can here on PH, but judging by the responses he fails miserably to appease the masses....not surprising really without publishing any usefully discovered new facts to impart, or those that can be published. Error 3.
richard sails said:
Lots of stuff
Cheers
Richard
TVR Car Club Archivist
Richard, you all have email, telephones and your own hidden committee forum on the club site to use to find out what happened, so to expect anyone to swallow that it needs a meeting to discuss and bottom out who and how this debacle came to be released is just not gonna wash is it ! Error 4.Cheers
Richard
TVR Car Club Archivist
And still no explanation of who did what and when etc, not that that would be expected to released on here, but reserved for publishing on the club site together with an appropriate apology. Error 5.
To suggest that the solution is for people to advise the club of their subjective quality of car just purchased and the price paid is fair, but its never going to happen is it !?!? And would that only be club members ??? Traders are never going to join in the party are they.....publishing their sales data to an outside entity......really, come on !!!
Despite being a Cerbera owner I am not overly concerned and what's done is done, but it must be realised that this kanda fopar has done a great disservice to both club and non club owners alike when buying/selling and with insurers.
Edited by Chuggaboom on Tuesday 28th July 19:55
Edited by Chuggaboom on Tuesday 28th July 20:49
PuffsBack said:
Given prices are rising quickly at present, isn't keeping a Database of recent sales more likely to put the brakes on prices more than the original article which everyone agrees was nonsense
That's unlikely. If as has been seen recently a general rise in prices then a database that shows an increase Q on Q is establishing a trend.Hypothetical example.
So if in Q1 prices for a particular model in good condition is say £16K, and Q2 shows £18K with Q3 at £19k then the trend is obviously up. So selling a car in Q4 would suggest a minimum of £19k if not more?
Equally flat values should prevent a fall, I doubt we'd see falling prices unless a particular model had peaked but that seems unlikely.
Gazzab said:
Are those prices a year old, think prices are higher now but still better than the Tvrcc valuation.Top Sags now selling for £65/67,000
Lotus E300S said:
Gazzab said:
Are those prices a year old, think prices are higher now but still better than the Tvrcc valuation.Top Sags now selling for £65/67,000
I'd give it up chaps, the truth will never come out, it was all the author according to the mouthpiece, it wasn't the author, according to the author. Itheyll just be face saving and sweeping under the carpet.
Meanwhile, we know the values, the buyers know the values, with the new cars coming out then the interest on the old models will increase. Whilst these are never investments, increasing the values makes it easier to justify spending the money keeping them on the road.
Meanwhile, we know the values, the buyers know the values, with the new cars coming out then the interest on the old models will increase. Whilst these are never investments, increasing the values makes it easier to justify spending the money keeping them on the road.
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