Changing a starter motor - difficulty?
Discussion
I've got the next two days off work and a brand new starter motor sitting waiting to be installed.
Reading up on here, I take it's a case of removing the fuel rail and somehow go down through the "V", unbolting and pulling out.
Sounds nice and easy - not.
Doing a quick pre-what am I letting myself in for check, looking down into the void - I can't see any sign of a starter motor even remotely visible. Getting the fuel rail out the way doesn't look too bad but what about the wires and pipes that go through that gap - do you have to remove those too?
I need some reassurance here that this is something I can do myself.
BTW, I possess a reasonable amount of mechanical/electrical knowledge. It's the tight access and lack of having arms like Mr Tickle bit that I'm worried about.
Reading up on here, I take it's a case of removing the fuel rail and somehow go down through the "V", unbolting and pulling out.
Sounds nice and easy - not.
Doing a quick pre-what am I letting myself in for check, looking down into the void - I can't see any sign of a starter motor even remotely visible. Getting the fuel rail out the way doesn't look too bad but what about the wires and pipes that go through that gap - do you have to remove those too?
I need some reassurance here that this is something I can do myself.
BTW, I possess a reasonable amount of mechanical/electrical knowledge. It's the tight access and lack of having arms like Mr Tickle bit that I'm worried about.
I've not done it (*yet) but there's a good thread on it here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=8&a...
Tanguero has a good picture showing a 4.2 without the Fuel Rails and Manifold and the starter motor [at the back / left?], but apparently with the 4.5s you can just leave them on
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=8&a...
Tanguero has a good picture showing a 4.2 without the Fuel Rails and Manifold and the starter motor [at the back / left?], but apparently with the 4.5s you can just leave them on
You'll be grand as long as you take your time and don't drop anything.
The first thing you need to do is disconnect the battery.
Once you undo the fuel pipes unbolt the fuel rail it'll wiggle upards and away from the engine.
Cover all the holes to make sure nothing falls in.
The starter is hard enough to reach, it's basically under the dashboard but accessed from the engine bay.
Make a note of where everything came from and once you put everything back the same way you'll be fine.
Allow a few hours for the job.
If you've got a second person to hand you stuff it makes it easier and quicker but it can easily be done as a solo job.
Oh and get disposable gloves and plasters ..... the gloves will help save some of your skin and the plasters will help keep the dirt out of the holes where your skin has gone missing because the gloves didn't work
The first thing you need to do is disconnect the battery.
Once you undo the fuel pipes unbolt the fuel rail it'll wiggle upards and away from the engine.
Cover all the holes to make sure nothing falls in.
The starter is hard enough to reach, it's basically under the dashboard but accessed from the engine bay.
Make a note of where everything came from and once you put everything back the same way you'll be fine.
Allow a few hours for the job.
If you've got a second person to hand you stuff it makes it easier and quicker but it can easily be done as a solo job.
Oh and get disposable gloves and plasters ..... the gloves will help save some of your skin and the plasters will help keep the dirt out of the holes where your skin has gone missing because the gloves didn't work
There must be a lot of variance in the exact parts layout in Cerberas. There is absolutely no way on this Earth the starter motor will come out the top of mine. I wasted a whole day jamming it in various awkward positions.
Mine needs done. When I do it, I'll be removing the chassis brace, exhaust, heatshield, propshaft bolts and unbolting the gearbox mount to save a lot of wasted time.
Mine needs done. When I do it, I'll be removing the chassis brace, exhaust, heatshield, propshaft bolts and unbolting the gearbox mount to save a lot of wasted time.
I've done this job a few times on mine now. You might find it easier to remove the throttles completely, rather than separating the fuel rail from the throttles. It gives more room to get your hands in and avoid the possibility of tearing the O rings that seal the fuel injectors to the fuel rail and throttle bodies. Watch out for the spacers between the throttle assembys and the cam covers, and when everything's removed stuff some paper towel or similar in the intakes to stop anything unwanted getting in. There's no need to do anything to the link rod or throttle pots so your engine setup won't be affected.
From there its pretty easy to get an allen bit on some extension bars down to undo the 2x starter motor mounting bolts. When its free turn the motor 180 degrees and you should be able to get a spanner/socket on the nuts on the solenoid that hold the power cables on.
From there its pretty easy to get an allen bit on some extension bars down to undo the 2x starter motor mounting bolts. When its free turn the motor 180 degrees and you should be able to get a spanner/socket on the nuts on the solenoid that hold the power cables on.
I did mine last weekend.
Lee
- disconnect the battery (keep keys on you)
- I undid the 4 bolts holding the injectors/rail on. gently pulled up to remove the lot in one go. left to one side with fuel line attached.
- Undone the throttle cable bracket and tucked it out the way.
- Unbolted the inner coil pack and let it sit low allowing room to pull the motor through.
- then undid the two bolts holding the motor in place/ rotate it and remove the power feed.
Lee
There is a huge difference between early cars and late AJP8 cars, as the pre-facelift have much less room above the starter motor.
Nevertheless it is possible to R&R without dismantling half the car.
However you do it, the most important thing that you must do is disconnect the battery.
Nevertheless it is possible to R&R without dismantling half the car.
However you do it, the most important thing that you must do is disconnect the battery.
I've had an interesting morning.
Disconnected battery, removed airboxes, fuel rail popped out easy enough and got a good view of the starter.
Now if your the type of person that looks at a woman's vagina and thinks there's no f
king way a baby will come through there - that was basically me.
So I've booked it into Hexham Horseless Carriages for next friday, I'll let the midwife deliver this one - no home births for me!
Disconnected battery, removed airboxes, fuel rail popped out easy enough and got a good view of the starter.
Now if your the type of person that looks at a woman's vagina and thinks there's no f
king way a baby will come through there - that was basically me.So I've booked it into Hexham Horseless Carriages for next friday, I'll let the midwife deliver this one - no home births for me!
Byff said:
I've had an interesting morning.
Disconnected battery, removed airboxes, fuel rail popped out easy enough and got a good view of the starter.
Any photos??Disconnected battery, removed airboxes, fuel rail popped out easy enough and got a good view of the starter.
I've been looking at my 4.2 AJP engine bay and think the following is needed - but wondered how much space is then left at the back to try and get it out
As per the great suggestions above
- Unbolt fuel rail [red(?)]
- Slide fuel rail [green] out of the way with fuel line attached
- Disconnect throttle rail [blue]
It would just be good to see how much space (*or not) is left...
Not sure how much difference there is between the 4.2 and 4.5 but mine is a 4.5 with the later larger style panel below the windscreen, with the water run offs.
I can remove my starter just by removing the near side air box and possibly the throttle return linkage. A bit of twisting it comes out and goes back in nicely.
I can remove my starter just by removing the near side air box and possibly the throttle return linkage. A bit of twisting it comes out and goes back in nicely.
Juddder said:
- Unbolt fuel rail [red(?)]
- Slide fuel rail [green] out of the way with fuel line attached
- Disconnect throttle rail [blue]
It would just be good to see how much space (*or not) is left...
There is quite a bit of space to get your hand down to the starter and I'm sure unbolting it wouldn't be any problem.- Slide fuel rail [green] out of the way with fuel line attached
- Disconnect throttle rail [blue]
It would just be good to see how much space (*or not) is left...
For me, once the fuel rail is unbolted, there's hardly any give in the fuel line so the rail only moved about 5-10cm to one side. Even then, there's loads of pipes, HT leads, coil packs and brackets which block the starters passage through the birthing canal.
I think if I had a full day without the worry of it being my daily driver for work, I'd have taken all the top end off as suggested by CerbWill (looking a bit like Tanguero's picture).
Byff said:
Juddder said:
- Unbolt fuel rail [red(?)]
- Slide fuel rail [green] out of the way with fuel line attached
- Disconnect throttle rail [blue]
It would just be good to see how much space (*or not) is left...
There is quite a bit of space to get your hand down to the starter and I'm sure unbolting it wouldn't be any problem.- Slide fuel rail [green] out of the way with fuel line attached
- Disconnect throttle rail [blue]
It would just be good to see how much space (*or not) is left...
For me, once the fuel rail is unbolted, there's hardly any give in the fuel line so the rail only moved about 5-10cm to one side. Even then, there's loads of pipes, HT leads, coil packs and brackets which block the starters passage through the birthing canal.
I think if I had a full day without the worry of it being my daily driver for work, I'd have taken all the top end off as suggested by CerbWill (looking a bit like Tanguero's picture).
By contrast, doing it from underneath during a slave cylinder change was a dawdle.
jamieduff1981 said:
It's an utter horror to bolt back on from above, because there's only room to get one hand down there at a time and you need that hand to hold the starter motor in place because it wants to fall backwards. Using your hand to do that, it's extremely awkward to feel around for the bolt holes (which you can't see because your arm is blocking the view) to thread the buggers back in.
By contrast, doing it from underneath during a slave cylinder change was a dawdle.
About 2 feet of extension bars and a ratchet handle makes it much easier to bolt back on from above.By contrast, doing it from underneath during a slave cylinder change was a dawdle.
CerbWill said:
jamieduff1981 said:
It's an utter horror to bolt back on from above, because there's only room to get one hand down there at a time and you need that hand to hold the starter motor in place because it wants to fall backwards. Using your hand to do that, it's extremely awkward to feel around for the bolt holes (which you can't see because your arm is blocking the view) to thread the buggers back in.
By contrast, doing it from underneath during a slave cylinder change was a dawdle.
About 2 feet of extension bars and a ratchet handle makes it much easier to bolt back on from above.By contrast, doing it from underneath during a slave cylinder change was a dawdle.
That was how I got it unbolted in the first place. The difficult part is getting the bolts threaded back in to their holes. It's a 2 handed job with access for 1 arm.Tanguero said:
On a 4.2 leave the fuel rail attached to the throttle bodies and take the whole assembly off in one piece - its far easier! On my '97 this left adequate room to get the starter in and out without loosing too much skin.
Just don't forget those bloody spacers if you choose to take whole throttle bodies off. They are aluminium x4 and so if they go down your inlets, you've gotta fish them out with a bit of wire, and pray they haven't gone past valves into the cylinders. It has happened a couple of times to me, so I tend to just remove the fuel rail, which means you will have to fiddle the throttle pot tuning back right. Easier than an engine out job to retrieve a spacer. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff