NIP - Single witness, no measuring device (Excess of 50MPH)
Discussion
Already posted on Pepipoo, but thought I'd test the general PH opinion on this:
I was traveling along a country B road direction, a police car with a solitary officer was traveling in the opposite direction.
The officer flashed his headlights at me as i passed.
The officer completed a U Turn, and pulled me over.
The officer walked to my window and the converstaion porceeded as follows:
Officer: "I dont know how fast you were going but it was far in excess of the stated speed limit, I am going to report you for an offence" Officer: "...[Caution]..."
Me "I dont think i was" [Speeding].
The officer took my licence, filled out the form, and suggested he was recommending me to go to driver / speed awareness and that a decision would be made (by central ticket office..?) and 'someone' would be in contact whether to prosecute, offer a FPN, or offer the awareness course.
I asked the officer what this decision would be based on
Officer: "my opinion".
I asked the officer if there was any video evidence:
He avoided the question and told me he'd "been a traffic officer for 15 years, argue it with a judge if you like" (I had the impression that there wasn't video evidence)
The traffic car had some kind of recording device in the front windscreen, however I could not say whether it was operating.
I smiled, said nothing more, signed the form and left.
I think I was within the limit, but generally I wonder how any prosecustion would stand up based on the above?
Is it worth fighting if it comes to it, or just roll over...???
I was traveling along a country B road direction, a police car with a solitary officer was traveling in the opposite direction.
The officer flashed his headlights at me as i passed.
The officer completed a U Turn, and pulled me over.
The officer walked to my window and the converstaion porceeded as follows:
Officer: "I dont know how fast you were going but it was far in excess of the stated speed limit, I am going to report you for an offence" Officer: "...[Caution]..."
Me "I dont think i was" [Speeding].
The officer took my licence, filled out the form, and suggested he was recommending me to go to driver / speed awareness and that a decision would be made (by central ticket office..?) and 'someone' would be in contact whether to prosecute, offer a FPN, or offer the awareness course.
I asked the officer what this decision would be based on
Officer: "my opinion".
I asked the officer if there was any video evidence:
He avoided the question and told me he'd "been a traffic officer for 15 years, argue it with a judge if you like" (I had the impression that there wasn't video evidence)
The traffic car had some kind of recording device in the front windscreen, however I could not say whether it was operating.
I smiled, said nothing more, signed the form and left.
I think I was within the limit, but generally I wonder how any prosecustion would stand up based on the above?
Is it worth fighting if it comes to it, or just roll over...???
Good luck.Previous said:
Is it worth fighting if it comes to it, or just roll over...???
You may never hear anything more about this....or...
You might have a choice ahead of you :-
- Pay £85 and spend half a day drinking tea and nodding, perhaps even learning something.
- Pay £100 and gain three points.
- Go to court, and hope that the magistrate agrees that the policeman's trying it on. You are almost certain to have to dip your hand in your pocket at some stage, possibly substantially, and you will spend far more than half a day on the whole saga. You may end up with more points.
Only you know which better suits you.
I know which I'd do, whether I was actually speeding or not, and I'd mentally be asking for several thousand undetected offences very similar to the allegation not to be taken into consideration whilst I was sitting in that classroom...
Signed the form as couldn't be bothered with an argument with someone who was clearly going to report me for the offence anyway before I even said anything- and nothing on the form is an admission of guilt as far as I can see.
There's no recorded speed, and under 'Device Used' the officer has written 'opinion'.
As to whether or not I was speeding, I don't think so: the officer disagreed. - Its a country road and i was making progress whilst looking out for hazards etc, not staring at the speedo.
There's no recorded speed, and under 'Device Used' the officer has written 'opinion'.
As to whether or not I was speeding, I don't think so: the officer disagreed. - Its a country road and i was making progress whilst looking out for hazards etc, not staring at the speedo.
Previous said:
Signed the form as couldn't be bothered with an argument with someone who was clearly going to report me for the offence anyway before I even said anything- and nothing on the form is an admission of guilt as far as I can see.
There's no recorded speed, and under 'Device Used' the officer has written 'opinion'.
As to whether or not I was speeding, I don't think so: the officer disagreed. - Its a country road and i was making progress whilst looking out for hazards etc, not staring at the speedo.
Really!? maybe its the end of a long week and i am feeling particularly cynical, but any chance of some evidence of this?There's no recorded speed, and under 'Device Used' the officer has written 'opinion'.
As to whether or not I was speeding, I don't think so: the officer disagreed. - Its a country road and i was making progress whilst looking out for hazards etc, not staring at the speedo.
surely you cannot be prosecuted for any offence based upon the opinion of a policeman, or anyone else for that matter.
The original Nick the Greek said:
So your policeman is basing his assessment of speeding on the closing speed of two cars traveling in opposite directions?
He has no measuring devices and no video evidence?
He's taking the piss.
See him in court.
This. If I've understood the OP, this is ridiculous!He has no measuring devices and no video evidence?
He's taking the piss.
See him in court.
On the couple of occasions I reported a driver for speeding based on opinion there were two of us. (And on both occasions it was a 30 limit & a toss-up whether the report should be for excess speed or low flying 
)
I wasn't aware that an officer on his own with no corroborating evidence to support his opinion - radar,laser, speedometer, vascar etc - could report for excess speed.
I'm curious as to what the thing in the windscreen was?
)I wasn't aware that an officer on his own with no corroborating evidence to support his opinion - radar,laser, speedometer, vascar etc - could report for excess speed.
I'm curious as to what the thing in the windscreen was?
Edited by paintman on Friday 29th January 18:58
I don't think they'd get away without some sort of hard evidence up here in Scotland unless there was another officer to corroborate that opinion and I certainly think that's the way things should be as opinion does not have much hope of offering a burden of proof.
It's a tricky situation to be in if you genuinely weren't speeding (and my feeling is that you know you were going at least a bit faster than the limit from what you have and haven't said- luckily you can't be done for my opinion!) as you could very easily suffer for a crime you haven't committed. I would consult a solicitor if you can afford it as you're not going to get the specific advice you really need from a forum unless you're absolutely 100% transparent about what actually happened and there's a very generous lawyer about.
It's a tricky situation to be in if you genuinely weren't speeding (and my feeling is that you know you were going at least a bit faster than the limit from what you have and haven't said- luckily you can't be done for my opinion!) as you could very easily suffer for a crime you haven't committed. I would consult a solicitor if you can afford it as you're not going to get the specific advice you really need from a forum unless you're absolutely 100% transparent about what actually happened and there's a very generous lawyer about.
Following from my post above, a quick Google produces this:
"**Important Note**
You cannot be convicted of speeding purely on the uncorroborated opinion evidence of a Police Officer. It is a requirement that the Police Officer, having formed an opinion that a vehicle is exceeding a speed limit, then uses a device to corroborate his personal opinion."
http://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/motoring-offences/sp...
"**Important Note**
You cannot be convicted of speeding purely on the uncorroborated opinion evidence of a Police Officer. It is a requirement that the Police Officer, having formed an opinion that a vehicle is exceeding a speed limit, then uses a device to corroborate his personal opinion."
http://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/motoring-offences/sp...
herewego said:
Unless on a motorway there has to be some form of backup. Could he have observed your speed on his speedometer after turning around?
Nope, was down to 40 mph in a nanosecond, I saw him u turn in my RVM, then he drove up to me and pulled me over, I didn't get very far away and saw him tunr around as i wasn't really going that fast! 
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