Can some explain how the key of a song is worked out?
Discussion
I've never understood what or how the key of song is determined. I know it means *something* but never understood the explanations I've read.
I understand chords, inversions, root notes, major, minor, flat, sharp, 5th, 7th etc but song keys continue to ellude me.
For example, if a track uses the chord sequence Cm, Bflat, Gsharp, what key would that be in?
Can someone please explain in terms that an idiot would understand? Thanks in advance.
I understand chords, inversions, root notes, major, minor, flat, sharp, 5th, 7th etc but song keys continue to ellude me.
For example, if a track uses the chord sequence Cm, Bflat, Gsharp, what key would that be in?
Can someone please explain in terms that an idiot would understand? Thanks in advance.
It's D#
Think of it in terms of 12 bar blues and it will make sense. If you play 12 bar and have two major chords a tone apart the other major chord that goes with them will be the root chord of the pattern and that will tell you what key you are in.
But here is the technical description anyway.
I have to work this out longhand as I don't tend to think in keys but on a standard major scale the four most important chords are I, IV, V and VI, that is the chords built on the first, fourth, fifth and sixth notes of the scale.
So in C major these are I = C major, IV = F major, V = G major and VI = A minor
If you look up the four chord song on you tube you will get endless examples of how this works and if you look on a keyboard you will be able to count the keys and work out the intervals.
It is a function of the notes in the scale that I, IV and V will be major chords and VI will be minor. Play it in C on a piano and you will be able to see why that works.
You may also see these referred to as root (I), sub-dominant (IV), dominant (V) and relative minor (VI).
So in the original example G# and Bb are a tone apart. That fits most easily with the idea of it being in D# since any two major chords which are one tone apart should be VI and V. Count back from IV to I (G#, G, F#, F, E, D#) and you get to D#. Cm also fits as the relative minor, a tone and half down from the root note (D#, D, C#, C).
This makes it look and sound a lot more complicated than it is. I play guitar and on a fretboard it is pretty easy. If you play around with bar chord shapes based on E and A shapes you can begin to see a pattern to the fret and string shifts between the chords and hence pick up the key more easily.
If you take G major as an easy example and play that as a bar chord at the third fret (E major shape) then the other chords are the A major/minor shape played as bar chords at the third (major), fifth (major) and seventh fret (minor).
For another inversion start with D major as a bar at the fifth fret and play G, A and Bm as E shape bar chords at the third, fifth and seventh frets. It's like the G major pattern but the other way up.
If I could find a way of putting guitar chord shapes in here it would be easier still.
Think of it in terms of 12 bar blues and it will make sense. If you play 12 bar and have two major chords a tone apart the other major chord that goes with them will be the root chord of the pattern and that will tell you what key you are in.
But here is the technical description anyway.
I have to work this out longhand as I don't tend to think in keys but on a standard major scale the four most important chords are I, IV, V and VI, that is the chords built on the first, fourth, fifth and sixth notes of the scale.
So in C major these are I = C major, IV = F major, V = G major and VI = A minor
If you look up the four chord song on you tube you will get endless examples of how this works and if you look on a keyboard you will be able to count the keys and work out the intervals.
It is a function of the notes in the scale that I, IV and V will be major chords and VI will be minor. Play it in C on a piano and you will be able to see why that works.
You may also see these referred to as root (I), sub-dominant (IV), dominant (V) and relative minor (VI).
So in the original example G# and Bb are a tone apart. That fits most easily with the idea of it being in D# since any two major chords which are one tone apart should be VI and V. Count back from IV to I (G#, G, F#, F, E, D#) and you get to D#. Cm also fits as the relative minor, a tone and half down from the root note (D#, D, C#, C).
This makes it look and sound a lot more complicated than it is. I play guitar and on a fretboard it is pretty easy. If you play around with bar chord shapes based on E and A shapes you can begin to see a pattern to the fret and string shifts between the chords and hence pick up the key more easily.
If you take G major as an easy example and play that as a bar chord at the third fret (E major shape) then the other chords are the A major/minor shape played as bar chords at the third (major), fifth (major) and seventh fret (minor).
For another inversion start with D major as a bar at the fifth fret and play G, A and Bm as E shape bar chords at the third, fifth and seventh frets. It's like the G major pattern but the other way up.
If I could find a way of putting guitar chord shapes in here it would be easier still.
abitlikefiennes said:
How do you work out that Eb is the key?
With out meaning to sound like an arse; by knowing the circle of 5ths and harmonised major scale. Every major scale has a different number of sharps OR flats in.
You need to learn
C = 0
G = 1 Sharp
D = 2 Sharps
A = 3 Sharps
E = 4 Sharps
B = 5 Sharps
F = 1 Flat
Bb = 2 Flats
Eb = 3 Flats
Ab = 4 Flats
Db = 5 Flats
and the order of sharps is F C G D A E
Order of flats B E A D G C
I would also say on a theoretical point its in Eb not D# - Eb has 3 flats whereas D# has 5 sharps and 2 double sharps - unpleasant in anyones book
Edited by dojo on Tuesday 9th February 16:18
abitlikefiennes said:
...and this is why I've never understood it. I can't read music and have managed to survive so far by using the old adage 'If it sounds right, it is right'.
Absolutely, and a lot of times not being bound by 'rules' works better for people. It depends what you want out of it. If it's something you really want to understand then DM me and I'll send you my skype and I'll explain it to you in person. Its not that hard if you follow the process.
dojo said:
I would also say on a theoretical point its in Eb not D# - Eb has 3 flats whereas D# has 5 sharps and 2 double sharps - unpleasant in anyones book
You got me.I don't sight read so I use tab instead and then it is just fingers and fret positions. At that point Eb and D# are actually the same.
No doubt someone with perfect pitch will be along shortly to tell us that actually the diminished fifth in Eb is slightly sharper than the one in D# because of the resonance of the harmonics, or something similar that only Simon Rattle will understand.
I just crank the gain up and carry on playing.
Thats the simplest way to be honest from a purely aural, non academic perspective.
But its not always that simple. For example a song may have an into in the key of A, and then modulate to F# minor for the verse. Hence why usually going to the end of a song will usually result in the piece ending in the key of the main body of the song.
But its not always that simple. For example a song may have an into in the key of A, and then modulate to F# minor for the verse. Hence why usually going to the end of a song will usually result in the piece ending in the key of the main body of the song.
O/T I've just written something for an orchestra that will be recorded next month - and there were so many key changes, so fast, I just gave up and made the whole thing 'no key sig'.
Sometimes you have to give up to avoid giving brain fade to the musicians.
My point: things are meant to be as easy to understand as poss.
Sometimes you have to give up to avoid giving brain fade to the musicians.
My point: things are meant to be as easy to understand as poss.
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