Getting to the starter motor - really?!

[Juddder]

So my quest to change my starter motor continues, and after removing the fuel rail, blocking off the injector inlets so that I don't drop anything into them, and using a coat hanger to retrieve an injector plug retainer clip which decided to ping-off underneath the alternator belt (coat hanger, magnet tool, choice words and lots of patience to get that one back...) I still can't easily see how I'm going to be able to get to the starter motor to take it out

If you look at the photos below, the blue light is highlighting where the starter motor alan bolts are, and as far as I can tell I'm going to need to remove

- air pipes going to air box and air inlets
- coil pack leads?
- maybe coil packs?
- move air conditioning leads out of the way

Either way it just looks way too tight down there

Any one who has done this have any tricks to make it easier?

Judder (a little daunted...)

Edited by Juddder on Saturday 21st May 16:57

[Byff]

I feel your pain.

I tried doing mine, failed and got HHC to do it instead

[Supateg]

Getting the bolts out is easy, ball headed hex socket with sufficient extensions to allow the ratchet to be used above the engine bay. Stubby spanner and dexterity to undo the rear power feed.
Removing is another issue, but on a 4.5 its straight forward. No experience of 4.2 sorry

[CerbWill]

Get the nearside throttle assembly off. Unbolt the starter motor. Disconnect positive feed to starter motor. Wrestle the starter motor out the gap. Next time don't separate the fuel rail from the throttles. If you remove the throttles& fuel rail as one you won't run the risk of damaging fuel injector seals or interfering with the engine setup by undoing the throttle link rod.

[Tanguero]

Yep - Take the throttle bodies off with the fuel rail. Not quite loads of room but it does give you adequate space to get the starter out.

[Juddder]

Tanguero said:

Yep - Take the throttle bodies off with the fuel rail. Not quite loads of room but it does give you adequate space to get the starter out.

Thanks guys

So I'm going to ask the really probably obvious question of what is meant by the throttle bodies?

The metal parts that connect the air boxes to the engine and hold the fuel rail?

If so I'm guessing that's what was done in the picture below, where the rails are taken out and it looks like you can see the cam covers, so guessing that's because the throttle bodies are removed also as the air box is sitting 90 degrees on the drivers side of the car.

If so are they the parts that have the spacers at the bottom that fall out??

Also, as far as not disconnecting the throttle bodies, so far I only un-popped the ball head joint that connects the joining bar between the two sides - no loss of threads, so I would expect connecting this back will keep the same relationship as before?

Apologies for the probably very obvious questions but it's me, the car and an underground car-park at the moment - so kind of learning as I go!

Regards

Judder

[Tanguero]

Yes- on a 4.2 the airboxes attach to the throttle bodies. Rather tan take the fuel rail off, take the air boxes off and then undo the socket cap bolts that hold the throttle bodies to the cylinder heads and you can take the whole assembly off without dismantling it. There are thick fibre heat insulators with O rings that go between the heads and the throttle bodies that will come off at the same time. It gives you a lot more room to work and is nothing like as fiddly as taking the fuel rail off.

The only danger point is that there is a spacer that comes loose when you undo the bolt that goes into the cam cover. Do NOT drop this into the open cylinder top when you remove the throttle/fuel rail assembly. I could potential drop past an open valve and into the cylinder and that is an engine out job. Its not a problem if you are aware of them when you are undoing the bolts.



The red and green caps are where the throttle bodies bolt onto the cylinder head - The raised bosses on the cam covers are where the bolts with the spacers go.

Edited by Tanguero on Sunday 22 May 00:29

[Juddder]

Tanguero said:

Yes- on a 4.2 the airboxes attach to the throttle bodies.

Awesome - thanks Tanguero hugely for the detailed explanation and that makes total sense

As I'm getting the injectors cleaned taking the fuel rail off isn't all in vain, but I will re-bolt on the fuel rail (now without injectors and fuel), remove the air boxes and try removing the whole throttle bodies and fuel rail ensemble together.

BTW the green caps you have on your engine look like a sensible idea to use while the throttle bodes etc. is out - where did you find those?

Also, nice job on your engine there - very pretty!

[gruffalo]

Juddder said:

Tanguero said:

Yes- on a 4.2 the airboxes attach to the throttle bodies.

Awesome - thanks Tanguero hugely for the detailed explanation and that makes total sense

As I'm getting the injectors cleaned taking the fuel rail off isn't all in vain, but I will re-bolt on the fuel rail (now without injectors and fuel), remove the air boxes and try removing the whole throttle bodies and fuel rail ensemble together.

BTW the green caps you have on your engine look like a sensible idea to use while the throttle bodes etc. is out - where did you find those?

Also, nice job on your engine there - very pretty!

Original Green Top injectors are now only available from power I believe at around £100 each.

You will also need a full remap before driving as they are much higher flow than standard injectors.

Green tops suit the 4.7 conversion but not sure you will see much gain on a 4.2, I would be inclined to keep £2000 in the bank.

[Twinkam]

...I think 'Judder' was referring to the green blanking caps in the inlets ...look like Merc centre caps to me, wrapped in red goo-tape to make them a push fit...

[Tanguero]

Juddder said:

BTW the green caps you have on your engine look like a sensible idea to use while the throttle bodes etc. is out - where did you find those?

They are the sealing caps that you get with Sebo vacuum cleaner bags with a bit of red insulating tape wrapped round the edge because they didn't fit. PM me your address if you want a jiffy bag full.

Edited by Tanguero on Sunday 22 May 14:23

[Juddder]

Tanguero said:

They are the sealing caps that you get with Sebo vacuum cleaner bags with a bit of red insulating tape wrapped round the edge because they didn't fit. PM me your address if you want a jiffy bag full.

Edited by Tanguero on Sunday 22 May 14:23

Good to know about the Green Top injectors, but yes I'd rather hang on to the £2k for the remap and injectors and this thread seems to think that the 4.2 injectors are pretty well spec'd to the engine size

4.5 injectors however seem to be another question from reading the same thread!

re: the vacuum bag tops - yes please - I'll drop you a PM as I'd rather have them nicely sealed as the insulating tape I was using refused to stick and I was worried it might fall into the engine!

Regards, Alex

[dkwiscrazy]

yes you can remove the starter on 4.2 with out removing the
throttle bodies

[Juddder]

dkwiscrazy said:

yes you can remove the starter on 4.2 with out removing the
throttle bodies

Awesome

Now that would be great to have an explanation of how you managed to get the starter out of there!

I'm changing the alternator too so removing the fuel rail is fine but if the starter can be wrestled out for others trying it would be great to know

Interestingly your engine has a return spring on the top of the throttle which is quite different to mine - I guess they evolved the tech over time...

[Byker28i]

I did mine by

Booking in for a chassis repair
Remove body

Replace everything whilst it was apart, including starter motor

[dkwiscrazy]

Juddder said:

dkwiscrazy said:

yes you can remove the starter on 4.2 with out removing the
throttle bodies

Awesome

Now that would be great to have an explanation of how you managed to get the starter out of there!

I'm changing the alternator too so removing the fuel rail is fine but if the starter can be wrestled out for others trying it would be great to know

Interestingly your engine has a return spring on the top of the throttle which is quite different to mine - I guess they evolved the tech over time...




disconnent your fuel lines and move them to one side
it gives your (just)enough space pull the gear end
first gear facing towards engine and don't forget several choice
words


the return spring was a road side repair the spring snapped
5 min in to own the car it tie wrap fuel rail and work

[Juddder]

Tanguero said:

They are the sealing caps that you get with Sebo vacuum cleaner bags with a bit of red insulating tape wrapped round the edge because they didn't fit. PM me your address if you want a jiffy bag full.

Edited by Tanguero on Sunday 22 May 14:23

Many thanks again - arrived today

I've also been studying your engine pictures and think these are the bolts I need to remove, to remove the throttle bodies, as well as unhook the throttle cable from the passenger / near side throttle spring mechanism as per second shot

[Tanguero]

Yes - that's the right bolts, as well as the throttle cable you obviously need to take the feed and return off the fuel rail as well if you are taking it all off in one piece. The dreaded spacers are on the bolts that go into the cam covers and sit between the throttle body and the cam cover.

[Juddder]

Tanguero said:

Yes - that's the right bolts, as well as the throttle cable you obviously need to take the feed and return off the fuel rail as well if you are taking it all off in one piece. The dreaded spacers are on the bolts that go into the cam covers and sit between the throttle body and the cam cover.

Cool - many thanks

For the 'avoid the dreaded spacers going into the engine' problem, I'm thinking of following (your?) advice on the forum somewhere else and strapping some tape around the bottom before unbolting them

This way I would be able to at least hold them in while I take the bolts out, and then can catch them before removing the rest from the engine

One for next weeks evening tasks!

[Juddder]

So I am making progress!

A couple of hours last night and I have the throttle cable disconnected, and one side of the throttle bodies off ready to plug the engine intake holes

I'll document this process fully when I'm done as it's much easier once you know what to expect and here's a few update photos so far

This is what the throttle body spacers actually look like - they are aluminium spacers about 5mm high - and I found the easiest way to grab them was using fingers once the bolt was out and very careful sliding. As mine were aluminium I couldn't easily grab them with the telescopic magent tool (*vital for this job!!!)





For the throttle cable, the throttle lever was pinched at the top, so I had to open this up a little to allow the 'ball' on the throttle cable to slide out the back of the U



and now all separated

BTW there was sealant used on mine between the cam-covers and the throttle body - is this necessary and should I replace it, and if so with what?

Now just to add Tanguero green vacuum bag tops with some insulating tape to keep any foreign bodies out of the engine



Also thinking of getting my Cam Covers coated too, since I am right by accessing them, if anyone has any recommendations?