What is this?

[Thunderroad]

Could it be out of the oil filter? Has anyone stripped an oil filter down? Perhaps there is something like that inside one?

[TwinKam]

thekraken said:

I've fished odds and sods out of the v of mine .. but you win hands down the game of worrying engine debris top trumps.......

A dubious honour and one I would gladly forego!

Thunderroad said:

Could it be out of the oil filter? Has anyone stripped an oil filter down? Perhaps there is something like that inside one? idea

There's nothing like that in an oil filter, but if it had come into the engine in the oil, it would've had to pass through a shell bearing, leaving a fair bit of evidence...

thekraken said:

Any feed back from Powers as to what is could be ??? I'd want Doms opinion....

Good idea, I'll get in contact with him.
The more I consider it, the more I believe it all to be parts of an oil control ring. The curved bits being the scrapers (but with 80% of one missing...?) and the stapley bits being the spacers that keep the two scrapers apart. I've seen many different types of bottom rings , what I need to know is what type TVR were using at that time.
No getting away from it, I'm going to have to pull the pistons.

[Jhonno]

Oil control ring.. From my 4.2, same as the ones on my 4.5 pistons.

[Jhonno]

Seeing as you have it this far, you might as well pull the pistons anyway. Fresh hone and rings.

[TwinKam]

Thanks jhonno, conventional type then.
I was wondering if it was like type B here

[Thekraken]

There's me and my technical terminology getting me in trouble again.......

[ukkid35]

TwinKam said:

I've not taken the heads off yet, but what I can see of the bores and pistons is perfect, all skirts and lower ring lands are intact, the outsides of the skirts (visible when pistons are BDC) are like new with no scuffing whatsoever, no scratches in any of the bores, in fact the cross-hatching is still present. Therefore I can't see it being bits of ring material.

So if we accept that it is indeed ring debris, how on earth did it get there without destroying everything in sight?

[TwinKam]

ukkid35 said:

TwinKam said:

I've not taken the heads off yet, but what I can see of the bores and pistons is perfect, all skirts and lower ring lands are intact, the outsides of the skirts (visible when pistons are BDC) are like new with no scuffing whatsoever, no scratches in any of the bores, in fact the cross-hatching is still present. Therefore I can't see it being bits of ring material.

So if we accept that it is indeed ring debris, how on earth did it get there without destroying everything in sight?

My point exactly. The only scenario that makes sense (and then not a lot) is that the sump was never cleaned out after a previous blow up!

[Fastpedeller]

TwinKam said:

ukkid35 said:

TwinKam said:

I've not taken the heads off yet, but what I can see of the bores and pistons is perfect, all skirts and lower ring lands are intact, the outsides of the skirts (visible when pistons are BDC) are like new with no scuffing whatsoever, no scratches in any of the bores, in fact the cross-hatching is still present. Therefore I can't see it being bits of ring material.

So if we accept that it is indeed ring debris, how on earth did it get there without destroying everything in sight?

My point exactly. The only scenario that makes sense (and then not a lot) is that the sump was never cleaned out after a previous blow up!

Well at least you'll find out if you extract the pistons and everything is there!

[TwinKam]

Pics to follow later, but... pistons are out and...





















...all rings intact. In fact, I have never in all my engine-stripping-years, stripped an engine that was in such perfect condition!

[Thekraken]

Great news! But WTF was it all?? It must've come from somewhere....any further thoughts???

[Outl4w]

A previous engine failure and a non cleaned out dump isn't a bad call if everything is intact.

[TwinKam]

Aint nuttin wrong with any of this lot

[TwinKam]

...but worth all the effort and expense if only just for peace of mind, and to renew these, they are on the point of collapse in the jacket but all the important sealing areas have done their job well for (I believe) 19 years/ 40,000 miles.

[TwinKam]

Thekraken said:

From a previous post there was an outside chance of it being foreign debris......but now......eeekkkk!!! Doesn't look at all good!!! Has to have come from somewhere......and you make an excellent case for a lower ring giving up the ghost!!!!
I've fished odds and sods out of the v of mine .. but you win hands down the game of worrying engine debris top trumps.......
Any feed back from Powers as to what is could be ??? I'd want Doms opinion....

Great advice, thanks. I emailed the pics to Dom and he sent me this image back. The debris in my sump is the remains of the cage from the crank nose roller bearing...

I hadn't looked at the cover bearings as I was going to replace them all regardless; the rollers dropped out of the cover whilst I was giving it an initial wash and have stayed in the wash tank since! So a very public acknowledgement from me to Dom's knowledge and experience.
The irony is, that was (and remains) the least of my worries

[Thunderroad]

Great thread TwinKam, i have been following this one from the beginning! I bet half the Cerb ownwers on here have been scratching their heads with this one

glad to see you got to the bottom of it, and thanks for keeping us all updated. We feel your pain brother

But like you say, at least you will have the comfort of knowing the everthing is good once its all back together, and new gaskets etc.