Laptop setup program on ebay

[Julian64]

I respectfully suggest heading to your local TVR meet. I don't think theres an RO in the country who doesn't have this information.

[TT Tim]

Julian64 said:

I respectfully suggest heading to your local TVR meet. I don't think theres an RO in the country who doesn't have this information.

Ohhhh, so this is TVRCC info only now?

Since, I believe that the TVRCC gets some 'help' from the factory, I'm sure they'll be happy to hear that the ROs are giving their software away for free .

Tim

>> Edited by TT Tim on Monday 18th April 16:05

[dannylt]

Apart from anything else, assuming the original copies were coded in some way, the trail will lead back to some poor (helpful) dealer.

[Julian64]

TT Tim said:

Julian64 said: I respectfully suggest heading to your local TVR meet. I don't think theres an RO in the country who doesn't have this information. Ohhhh, so this is TVRCC info only now? Since, I believe that the TVRCC gets some 'help' from the factory, I'm sure they'll be happy to hear that the ROs are giving their software away for free . Tim >> Edited by TT Tim on Monday 18th April 16:05

Nope, you don't have to be a member of the club. I wasn't. its just I guess theres a bit more trust face to face.

[darreni]

TT Tim said:

Julian64 said: I respectfully suggest heading to your local TVR meet. I don't think theres an RO in the country who doesn't have this information. Ohhhh, so this is TVRCC info only now? Since, I believe that the TVRCC gets some 'help' from the factory, I'm sure they'll be happy to hear that the ROs are giving their software away for free . Tim >> Edited by TT Tim on Monday 18th April 16:05

Try turning up at a meet & buying someone a pint, it'll get you a better result than smart comments on a public forum.

[TT Tim]

darreni said:

TT Tim said: Julian64 said: I respectfully suggest heading to your local TVR meet. I don't think theres an RO in the country who doesn't have this information. Ohhhh, so this is TVRCC info only now? Since, I believe that the TVRCC gets some 'help' from the factory, I'm sure they'll be happy to hear that the ROs are giving their software away for free . Tim >> Edited by TT Tim on Monday 18th April 16:05 Try turning up at a meet & buying someone a pint, it'll get you a better result than smart comments on a public forum.

Take a chill pill!

It was a tonge-in-cheek comment!

There's an awful lot of hypocrital crap in this thread, it seems to be it's okay to give it away, but not okay to sell it.

Look through eBay, its riddled with people selling online manuals for allsorts from Land Rover to Nissan.

If there was a manual for the Cerbera I would buy it, I bought Steve Heath's excellent book on the Chimaera and Cerbera, but if the only way of getting my hands on a manual is to pay £15 for it then I will.

Anyway, what's the difference of reporting somone for selling said item on ebay, and an RO giving it away?

I have shared both the CD of online parts listing for a major car manufacturer and Service guides for over 100 computers and periferals.

Tim

>> Edited by TT Tim on Monday 18th April 17:03

[Julian64]

dannylt said:

Apart from anything else, assuming the original copies were coded in some way, the trail will lead back to some poor (helpful) dealer.

Nope, in fact a local TVR dealer asked me if I knew where to get a copy because theirs had died and TVR were taking forever sending them one.

Obviously theres a line here to tread. And you can line up one side or the other and take pot shots.

I try to help my fellow TVR owner with information I have gleaned from all over the place, and sometimes to the extent of inviting them over to my home to use my ramp and getting my hands dirty helping them. I don't do this for profit and I like to think others here would do the same.

But where do you draw the line? Its wrong to copy copywritten information. Its wrong to copy dealer software. Its wrong to make a profit from it.
Is it wrong for for Jools to give us the benefit of his wisdom, after all TVR don't want you fiddling with their cars at all, and when you think about it the car is someones copyright design. Or is is only permissible to give wisdom when its been gathered independantly of TVR.

I know one thing. Without access to information my Cerb wouldn't be on the road at the moment.

[Plotloss]

Its not like this chap is doing anything different to TVR's than thousands of people worldwide are doing to other marques.

ECU tuning is now within the realms of the enthusiast, I am at this minute porting some Pocket PC software over to my mobile so I can view the ECU sensors on my mobile to monitor intake temperature.

I'd be very suprised if there isnt an open source software product that couldnt talk to the Cerb ECU.

[WHAT?]

Thanks for the people that seem to be on my side. I couldn't see what I was doing wrong but I obviously touched a few raw nerves. There is a fine line I agree, but people were buying it so people must need it. If anyone wants a copy for free please feel obliged to email me through my profile. I also have the first few sections of the holy bible, the mythical Cerbera manual. There, that was like confession or something.

Also to the few who went OTT on this - Get a hobby!

[octane junkie]

Anyway, has anyone found a way to stop it re-booting your laptop every time you exit? That has got to be more annoying than that strange clicking noise from the rear-suspension!

[S-X-S]

Julian64 said:

dannylt said: Apart from anything else, assuming the original copies were coded in some way, the trail will lead back to some poor (helpful) dealer. Nope, in fact a local TVR dealer asked me if I knew where to get a copy because theirs had died and TVR were taking forever sending them one. Obviously theres a line here to tread. And you can line up one side or the other and take pot shots. I try to help my fellow TVR owner with information I have gleaned from all over the place, and sometimes to the extent of inviting them over to my home to use my ramp and getting my hands dirty helping them. I don't do this for profit and I like to think others here would do the same. But where do you draw the line? Its wrong to copy copywritten information. Its wrong to copy dealer software. Its wrong to make a profit from it. Is it wrong for for Jools to give us the benefit of his wisdom, after all TVR don't want you fiddling with their cars at all, and when you think about it the car is someones copyright design. Or is is only permissible to give wisdom when its been gathered independantly of TVR. I know one thing. Without access to information my Cerb wouldn't be on the road at the moment.

J, you've made quite a few 'true' comments here.
I'm waiting for someone to still start up a TVR Cerbera technical information and guides website...
About the opensource software thing... it can be done... you could use a serial port sniffer to log all data and reverse engineer how the software communicates with the ECU... I would say the best man for this kind of work is JSG...

JS, wanna do the honours? I'm sure joolz has more than one spare MBE lying around????

Put a nice graphical front end to it, maybe even find a way of unlocking the hidden features too

[TT Tim]

Yep, a nice graphic front end like this one for my Z32:

http://300zx-twinturbo.com/conzult/scrnshts.htm

Tim

[S-X-S]

TT Tim said:

Yep, a nice graphic front end like this one for my Z32: http://300zx-twinturbo.com/conzult/scrnshts.htm Tim

Thats one neat application....

Wait till you see my TFT dash displaying everything from the Motec via the CAN bus.... full on DirectX widgets...

If someone can figure out the MBE unit, maybe I could package the touchscreen TFT dash/computer and software compatible with Motec/MBE and Emerald too... would there be interest in this?

Would you chaps be willing to pay, say, £2400 for an out of the box instrument pod TFT dash replacement?

For more custom work like animated personal log etc, maybe an additional £200.

Well, when mines finished and on display at Cream, if there is interest, I will source the MBE and Emerald units and see if JSG can help out with deciphering the protocols. The Motec is easy because it supports the internation CAN protocol for communications.

[Julian64]

S-X-S said:

Julian64 said: dannylt said: Apart from anything else, assuming the original copies were coded in some way, the trail will lead back to some poor (helpful) dealer. Nope, in fact a local TVR dealer asked me if I knew where to get a copy because theirs had died and TVR were taking forever sending them one. Obviously theres a line here to tread. And you can line up one side or the other and take pot shots. I try to help my fellow TVR owner with information I have gleaned from all over the place, and sometimes to the extent of inviting them over to my home to use my ramp and getting my hands dirty helping them. I don't do this for profit and I like to think others here would do the same. But where do you draw the line? Its wrong to copy copywritten information. Its wrong to copy dealer software. Its wrong to make a profit from it. Is it wrong for for Jools to give us the benefit of his wisdom, after all TVR don't want you fiddling with their cars at all, and when you think about it the car is someones copyright design. Or is is only permissible to give wisdom when its been gathered independantly of TVR. I know one thing. Without access to information my Cerb wouldn't be on the road at the moment. J, you've made quite a few 'true' comments here. I'm waiting for someone to still start up a TVR Cerbera technical information and guides website... About the opensource software thing... it can be done... you could use a serial port sniffer to log all data and reverse engineer how the software communicates with the ECU... I would say the best man for this kind of work is JSG... JS, wanna do the honours? I'm sure joolz has more than one spare MBE lying around???? Put a nice graphical front end to it, maybe even find a way of unlocking the hidden features too

You certainly could do this but not much point. I'm reliably informed that easimap 5 is incapable of displaying map data but can display the running instrument panel if you so wish.

[J_S_G]

WHAT said:

Thanks for the people that seem to be on my side. I couldn't see what I was doing wrong but I obviously touched a few raw nerves. There is a fine line I agree, but people were buying it so people must need it. If anyone wants a copy for free please feel obliged to email me through my profile. I also have the first few sections of the holy bible, the mythical Cerbera manual. There, that was like confession or something. Also to the few who went OTT on this - Get a hobby!

OK, here's the analogy; hopefully this should clear it up a bit:
Scenario 1: You've got a video tape of a cool film. Maybe you taped it off Cable. A mate really wants to see the film, so you lend it to him. Legal? No. But it's done without much frowning upon, right? That's because it's a social "private" thing, not some faceless, public dissemination, and was done as a goodwill gesture for a friend.
Scenario 2: You've got a video tape of cool film. Maybe you taped it off Cable. You realise that, although people could pay to see the film, there are many that would rather own it themselves. So you set up a stall in the local market selling off bootleg copies of it; not knowing any of the punters, and not caring. You're no longer doing it for any selfless reason - for any greater good - you've turned a realistically illegal, but largely overlookable favour for a mate into a business venture based on criminally obtained products.

That's the impartial view on it. From a more personal perspective...
"Get a hobby". I had a hobby. I turned it into a business at the age of 17 to try to pay my way through University - my family couldn't really afford for me to go, so I knew I'd have to come up with something pretty inventive and difficult to make it; the course I wanted was a good 30 hours a week of lectures and practicals plus all the project work and study outside that. So I worked my nuts off for the last year and a bit of college; 100 hour weeks month after month after month, etc. and carried that on into the first year of Uni, trying to put something in place so I could give Uni the attention it deserved and get to do something my parents never had the opportunity of. It started off well - I'd spent a good couple of years writing some computer games that were really different from anything else out there on the platforms I was developing for. They won pretty much every award that there was out there - got top ratings whenever reviewed, etc. Then someone thought that £10-15 wasn't fair "why should they have to pay for that when they've already bought the stuff to run it on?". "Why should they have to line the pockets of corporations just to use software?". Well, possibly because that software was written for the express purpose of making money, and wouldn't exist if that hadn't been the idea behind it. And possibly because it's not always some big corporation.

Five years since graduating and I'm still paying off the debts that ensued after it all collapsed from software piracy. Would I have minded if "Billy had given Bobby a copy to play with for a bit"? No. Would I have minded giving away the odd copy if someone had dropped me a mail saying "I'm a student and really can't afford to buy this - any chance of a free copy as it looks great"? Not at all. All personal, small-scale justifications that can be dealt with on a human basis. But the people dealing in pirated versions weren't doing it for the good of mankind - they had banner-laden, popup-ridden websites that were there purely to turn a profit from dealing in their illegally distributed software.

So, maybe I take this more personally than most... but it's with good reason and a lot of experience of the situation.

And, on the other points:
"people were buying it so people must need it."
What, like heroin?

"I also have the first few sections of the holy bible, the mythical Cerbera manual."
I really hope you don't mean shpub's upcoming book on the Cerb, or I think you might p*ss off more people than just me by screwing with an individual's livelihood. If you mean the information that's freely available on the 'Net on the RatPac's site, Graham's TCR, etc. I'd check the copyright on that, too, not to mention the moral stance of giving credit where credit's due.

>> Edited by J_S_G on Tuesday 19th April 00:11

[nervous]

Seconded, JSG.

And the fact that you apologised for doing what you admitted was questionable, then became adamant that you were in the right again when people 'stood up for you' speaks volumes about you. At least have the courage of your convictions. Or if you're going to apologise and not mean it, at least keep it to yourself, as it makes you seem untrustworthy and dishonest when you openly recant. I'm sure you wouldn't want people thinking ill of you: you seem scrupulously honest to me.

No amount of justification can cir-cum-navigate your way around the fact that what your doing is illegal, and aims to serve only you. So lets not make out its a helpful, chummy service your offering. You're helping no-one but yourself. good for you. i hope it brings you everything you deserve.

p.s. despite your advice, i already have a hobby, and yet, i still think you're a greedy, disingenuous prick. any other suggestions as to how i can not care when people act like you?

[Podie]

J_S_G said:

WHAT said: Thanks for the people that seem to be on my side. I couldn't see what I was doing wrong but I obviously touched a few raw nerves. There is a fine line I agree, but people were buying it so people must need it. If anyone wants a copy for free please feel obliged to email me through my profile. I also have the first few sections of the holy bible, the mythical Cerbera manual. There, that was like confession or something. Also to the few who went OTT on this - Get a hobby! OK, here's the analogy; hopefully this should clear it up a bit: Scenario 1: You've got a video tape of a cool film. Maybe you taped it off Cable. A mate really wants to see the film, so you lend it to him. Legal? No. But it's done without much frowning upon, right? That's because it's a social "private" thing, not some faceless, public dissemination, and was done as a goodwill gesture for a friend. Scenario 2: You've got a video tape of cool film. Maybe you taped it off Cable. You realise that, although people could pay to see the film, there are many that would rather own it themselves. So you set up a stall in the local market selling off bootleg copies of it; not knowing any of the punters, and not caring. You're no longer doing it for any selfless reason - for any greater good - you've turned a realistically illegal, but largely overlookable favour for a mate into a business venture based on criminally obtained products. That's the impartial view on it. From a more personal perspective... "Get a hobby". I had a hobby. I turned it into a business at the age of 17 to try to pay my way through University - my family couldn't really afford for me to go, so I knew I'd have to come up with something pretty inventive and difficult to make it; the course I wanted was a good 30 hours a week of lectures and practicals plus all the project work and study outside that. So I worked my nuts off for the last year and a bit of college; 100 hour weeks month after month after month, etc. and carried that on into the first year of Uni, trying to put something in place so I could give Uni the attention it deserved and get to do something my parents never had the opportunity of. It started off well - I'd spent a good couple of years writing some computer games that were really different from anything else out there on the platforms I was developing for. They won pretty much every award that there was out there - got top ratings whenever reviewed, etc. Then someone thought that £10-15 wasn't fair "why should they have to pay for that when they've already bought the stuff to run it on?". "Why should they have to line the pockets of corporations just to use software?". Well, possibly because that software was written for the express purpose of making money, and wouldn't exist if that hadn't been the idea behind it. And possibly because it's not always some big corporation. Five years since graduating and I'm still paying off the debts that ensued after it all collapsed from software piracy. Would I have minded if "Billy had given Bobby a copy to play with for a bit"? No. Would I have minded giving away the odd copy if someone had dropped me a mail saying "I'm a student and really can't afford to buy this - any chance of a free copy as it looks great"? Not at all. All personal, small-scale justifications that can be dealt with on a human basis. But the people dealing in pirated versions weren't doing it for the good of mankind - they had banner-laden, popup-ridden websites that were there purely to turn a profit from dealing in their illegally distributed software. So, maybe I take this more personally than most... but it's with good reason and a lot of experience of the situation. And, on the other points: "people were buying it so people must need it." What, like heroin? "I also have the first few sections of the holy bible, the mythical Cerbera manual." I really hope you don't mean shpub's upcoming book on the Cerb, or I think you might p*ss off more people than just me by screwing with an individual's livelihood. If you mean the information that's freely available on the 'Net on the RatPac's site, Graham's TCR, etc. I'd check the copyright on that, too, not to mention the moral stance of giving credit where credit's due. >> Edited by J_S_G on Tuesday 19th April 00:11

Well said J_S_G

[rjben]

Gents, I agree that WHAT is being underhand in selling software that does not belong to him or has no rights to, for profit. IMHO he is doing 2 things wrong 1) making a profit from goods / IPR that does not belong to him and 2) Allowing, through his actions, the factory or franchised dealers to loose potential profit through maintenance / service. Given that the majority (including me) agree with the first point, I would ask you all, particularly those that use this software to maintain their own vehicle, to remember the 2nd point.

What’s that phrase about glasshouses and stones?

[Podie]

rjben said:

Gents, I agree that WHAT is being underhand in selling software that does not belong to him or has no rights to, for profit. IMHO he is doing 2 things wrong 1) making a profit from goods / IPR that does not belong to him and 2) Allowing, through his actions, the factory or franchised dealers to loose potential profit through maintenance / service. Given that the majority (including me) agree with the first point, I would ask you all, particularly those that use this software to maintain their own vehicle, to remember the 2nd point. What’s that phrase about glasshouses and stones?

There is the other side to the coin…. People will tinker, screw things up, and then have to take it to the dealer to be fixed….


Out of curiosity, I wonder what "warranty" the seller is offering should someone knacker their engine…. … I see no caveat...

[S-X-S]

I dont think anyone here will openly condone any form of theft.

WHAT has misunderstood the sentiment he's received from some of us. Cos I personally believe the fella is genuinly trying to help - and £15 is feckin pennies... covers his time to pick up a CD and burn the shite on there and then spend time packaging it up. (I'm not even gonna walk into the 'its not his software to sell though' well its not anyones software to own either then - everyones at fault if we're gonna start picking and chosing whats acceptable and whats not - human nature - feckin pathetic - whats good for oneself is not good for another - feckin pathetic excuses)

BUT

In my books, theres a solid line between getting involved in someone elses enterprise (be it legal or illegal)... and that solid line has the following words stamped on it...

"Respect everyone, but if any man lays his hands on you or your family or your livlihood - send him to the feckin cemetary" [M-X]

Yeah, I'm in a bad way today, f'in pissed off with the magistrates. One sided bastards. Looks like I'm gonna have to sort shite out again - my plans for the next two weeks are shagged