AJP Turbo making progress

[fatjon]

It's starting to come together now. Pics here
http://195.224.74.74 and a video.

Edited by fatjon on Sunday 31st May 20:24

[jonbarrett]

Amazing! How are you planning to route the exhausts to the back of the car?

[fatjon]

This one is not going in a Cerb but next year we will be doing one for my cerb if it works well/reliably in the test car. The manifolds will have to be completely different but it can be done without much grief I think. I'll just bring the front pipes back under the exhaust ports.

[stuthemong]

That looks pretty brutal!

Your exhaust routing will be most interesting

[jonbarrett]

What ECU do you plan to use?

[fatjon]

Emerald ECU, got one on the Cerb too, very nice to set up and the weird firing angles make the list of available options pretty short anyway.

[brakedust]

Should be crazy when its all together! I like your intake system as well, looks very neat and tidy

What sort of power are you hoping for?

[fatjon]

brakedust said:

Should be crazy when its all together! I like your intake system as well, looks very neat and tidy

What sort of power are you hoping for?

Yes, some hours went into making that plenum. I'm not 100% happy with it but it will do for now.
Hoping to make 660BHP as a starting point with these turbos then we will see how far we can push it. I reckon 800BHP should be possible. When all is said and done it's a a pair of 4 cylinder engines and 400BHP from a turbo 2.25 litre engine is not unusual. The turbos are quite small though as I don't want it too laggy so bigger ones would be needed to make serious power.

[450Nick]

How's this coming along then??

[SXS]

From the look of things, it looks a home-made jobbie with some pretty dodgy looking welding on the manifolds and the plenum, and based on the low budget quality of them I doubt the engine internals were touched at all, unless these images are all templating images...
640-800bhp out of a stock 4.5? obviously someone thinks all engines are built like RB26's or 4G7x's lol.... (and even they need uprating circa 600)

[Cyclone1]

What are the specs of the turbos?

[spitfire4v8]

Jon's not a stranger to building turbo engines Ash .. might be worth keeping an eye on the thread to see how it turns out anyway?

[SXS]

Cyclone1 said:

What are the specs of the turbos?

From the attached photos, it looks like one of those cheap chinese copies of a T3 type turbo.
It has a water cooled center, which makes me think that its a copy of a stock turbo from one of the many road-cars which run T3 types. These copy turbos are very inefficient and they probably have an extremly poor AR map for sure. Definitely not a serious performance orientated turbo, even the built-in wastegate actuators look a stock factory sealed preset pressure type.
Not being funny, but twin-turbocharging a stock AJP to produce big horses as the owner is claiming, is worse than a pipedream...

But if this is supposed to be a low-boost setup on a stocker, it could work very well...

[SXS]

spitfire4v8 said:

Jon's not a stranger to building turbo engines Ash .. might be worth keeping an eye on the thread to see how it turns out anyway?

Building a turbo engine is not complicated by any means, just a bit of elbow grease and fabrication work...

What is complicated it making sure the base engine being super/turbocharged is good enough in 'all' the areas to run high boost.

Sorry if I offended anyone, just the first few posts claiming 660bhp is easy out of a stock AJP cracks me up.... and I'm assuming its a stock engine because the respray work looks terrible and the welding work looks worse than the paddy down the road who welds old iron gates for a living...

[fatjon]

Ok, so I'm not a trained welder therefore the engine does not exist could never work and I'm a liar.

The copper gaskets and wire seals were made and installed by TVR Power, Raceproved made the custom twin plate paddle clutch and flywheel, Accralite designed and made the pistons and the bottom end is all balanced forged steel. The engine management is from Emerald. Of course it could be that all the people involved in the design and build of the engine over the last year just imagined it.

The AJP is a well proven British race engine designed from the ground up for that purpose. They have been hammered in the TVR challenge and have proved their credentials for many years. It would certainly be easier to fit some Datsun engine and not have to worry too much about the design as it has all been done before and most of the parts are cheap and available off the shelf but where's the challenge in that. As for not being able to make 600BHP out of a standard 4.5 AJP, well if you mean standard with 10:1 compression ratio and original EMS and fuel/cooling system, quite right but I have a 2.0 Maestro Turbo making over 400BHP, it has been totally reliable despite extreme abuse for 2 years and in it's previous life with AN Racing it was making 550BHP with an 8 injector setup and bigger turbo (proven and well documented). 600BHP out of a race tuned 4.5 flatplane is pretty conservative by any standards. I don't do this for a living, I don't have an unlimited budget so a lot of the stuff I have to do myself with my limited skils but a bullstter/liar I am not.

The current turbos are modified Garrett GT2836RS for test purposes but the final plan is to use some larger ones once reliability has been established

[fatjon]

and no they are not cheap chinese copies, they are pukka Garrett from Owen Developments. FFS what's with the chip on your shoulder.

[SXS]

fatjon said:

and no they are not cheap chinese copies, they are pukka Garrett from Owen Developments. FFS what's with the chip on your shoulder.

wheres the metal serial badges gone? all stock garrett's have them on the compressor housings...

FFS no chip on me shoulder, just cant stop laughing at the '660bhp' statement out of what comes across as a stock AJP engine!!!

[SXS]

I or NO ONE else for that matter has called you a liar, I would be the last person to say so. If anything I love new development, but the idea of throwin this engine into a Vauxhall Omega just defies logic....

Ok, let me explain some tech first...

• The AJP engines run a pretty high compression ratio, kinda all over the shop from 10.x to 11.x to crazy 12.x on some RedRoses.
• The AJP engines have high lift cams
• The AJP engines tend to have cast cranks, though some 'GT' versions have billet cranks.
• The rods are not billet and the pistons are far from forged.
• The cylinder sealing is pretty weak in road going AJP's.
• The water cooling setup is not very efficient - in stock form they run fairly hot, throw in an extra 300 break will push it down on its knees, a big rad will help but the pressure will drop, less pressure equals less optimal heat extraction...
• The engine is a flat-plane crank V8, what this means is that secondary order on these engines is devastating, throw huge boost in and all the flaws of the engine internals will kick up a fuss and you will ruin a perfectly nice engine, if you're on a budget - do keep this in mind.

Sorry if I came across a total c*nt, my posts come across harsher than they were meant to be mate.

[fatjon]

The ID plates are on the CHRA not on the interchangeable compressor housings which would be pretty pointless. The plate on the left turbo CHRA can be clearly seen in the pic and even clearer if you click it and get the hi res version.

[SXS]

fatjon said:

The ID plates are on the CHRA not on the interchangeable compressor housings which would be pretty pointless. The plate on the left turbo CHRA can be clearly seen in the pic and even clearer if you click it and get the hi res version.

The main debate that I was trying to highlight to you was that this engine is not capable of the horses you are after in stock form.
Forget about the turbos, thats neither here nor there.

Speak to MCD and also Perfect Bore (part of the Capricorn Group) and they will tell you what the limits of the factory build of this engine are compared to the original penciled for Honda design - and even that engine blew up when they took the power up...