Any love for the Ferrari 400 here? Anyone?
Discussion
NickKerigan said:
JackCarter said:
Thanks for your comments. You're right in saying they are not a "poor man's Ferrari". They may be less costly to buy than a Daytona or BB 512 but they are still a costly car to maintain. I have spent quite a bit on mine having the fuel injection re-built, rear dampers reconditioned etc. My car had a hugely expensive restoration carried out by the previous owner in 2000 but still there have been issues to resolve with the car. Having said that, once the car is set-up properly and fully sorted then routine maintenance shouldn't be too expensive. I still have a few things to sort-out on mine but it has always been 100% reliable. Starts instantly, doesn't overheat even on a 35c Sydney day etc. As to your questions...
1) To be honest the 3 speed auto is probably the aspect of the car that dates it the most. It changes smoothly and makes it easy to drive around town (apart from the huge turning circle) but you are left waiting for it to change into the non-existant 4th gear at higher speeds. At 70mph it is turning at about 3600 rpm which makes it quite busy when cruising. Having said that, put your foot down at that speed and it flies... Around town it is plenty quick enough but a little lazy. Your 928 would feel much more lively around town, at speed the 400 really gets going. I haven't driven a 5 speed manual but I imagine it would better suit the high revving V12, although you may lose its "waft-ability" around town.
2) The handling is surprisingly good. The steering is a little slow, but for its size and age it will shift down a twisty road pretty well. It feels quite quite solid and well damped and it is easy enough to get it sliding on those TRX tyres... The ride is really comfortable as well. My wife much prefers riding in it to my Porsche 964. The cabin feels roomy and airy, different to a Porsche.
3) Parts availability can be an issue. Most mechanical and electrical parts are shared with other Ferraris and are available from specialists like Superformance in the UK or Ricambi in the US. FerrParts are also great for tricky parts like the self-levelling Koni rear dampers (there are 2 each side) which are NLA so have to be re-built as they tend to leak. eBay also turns-up some obscure parts. Things like interior trim are very hard to find. Gerry from Forza Parts in Sydney has a veritable Alladin's cave of rare parts too. Hope this helps. They are a special and unique car. Before I bought mine I had a 1982 Aston Martin V8 Auto. I would say that the 400i feels much more refined, handles at least as well, though perhaps not as quick.
Totally agree with the above comments...1) To be honest the 3 speed auto is probably the aspect of the car that dates it the most. It changes smoothly and makes it easy to drive around town (apart from the huge turning circle) but you are left waiting for it to change into the non-existant 4th gear at higher speeds. At 70mph it is turning at about 3600 rpm which makes it quite busy when cruising. Having said that, put your foot down at that speed and it flies... Around town it is plenty quick enough but a little lazy. Your 928 would feel much more lively around town, at speed the 400 really gets going. I haven't driven a 5 speed manual but I imagine it would better suit the high revving V12, although you may lose its "waft-ability" around town.
2) The handling is surprisingly good. The steering is a little slow, but for its size and age it will shift down a twisty road pretty well. It feels quite quite solid and well damped and it is easy enough to get it sliding on those TRX tyres... The ride is really comfortable as well. My wife much prefers riding in it to my Porsche 964. The cabin feels roomy and airy, different to a Porsche.
3) Parts availability can be an issue. Most mechanical and electrical parts are shared with other Ferraris and are available from specialists like Superformance in the UK or Ricambi in the US. FerrParts are also great for tricky parts like the self-levelling Koni rear dampers (there are 2 each side) which are NLA so have to be re-built as they tend to leak. eBay also turns-up some obscure parts. Things like interior trim are very hard to find. Gerry from Forza Parts in Sydney has a veritable Alladin's cave of rare parts too. Hope this helps. They are a special and unique car. Before I bought mine I had a 1982 Aston Martin V8 Auto. I would say that the 400i feels much more refined, handles at least as well, though perhaps not as quick.
1) Having driven both the auto and manual, the auto is much easier around town but the manual is better for the open road. In the town, the manual can be hard work with a heavy clutch. Out on the open road, the manual allows you to match ratios to revs more accurately giving a more performance car feel
2) Handling should be outstanding when properly set up. However many examples for sale have very old tyres on them - cornering can be radically improved with new rubber
3) I've found parts reasonable to source for those that are common to other Ferraris and tough for those that are 400-specific. But there are a good set of specialists out there able to support.
Hope this is useful.
What you have said was also backed up by a guy I met at the Ace Cafe this summer that had a mint 412GT in black. He was very pleased with it and so he should be it was lovely.
Do you get acceptance from the other Ferrari owners when you go to meets? I have a friend that used to own a Mondial and they weren't very appreciative that he owned a Mondial, whereas there were plenty of 308's at various meets that were welcomed. I find this very strange, not that I would give a damn what people thought of my car choice.. well I bought a Porsche
I am going to keep an eye open and see if the right one pops up. I absolutely love those squared off parallel lines, that are so 80's / Pininfarina. I've done the thrashy cars, and I love true GT's of which my 928 is legendary for eating miles at speed in comfort. This is most certainly an itch I really need to scratch. Why don't you put it in the Readers Cars section? That way we can follow the progress
Lord Flathead said:
Some great information there thank you both. Verdi, my local service agent, has gone bust (apparently in a rather controversial way) and they were about a mile from where I live. Not sure if that's a good thing or not!
What you have said was also backed up by a guy I met at the Ace Cafe this summer that had a mint 412GT in black. He was very pleased with it and so he should be it was lovely.
Do you get acceptance from the other Ferrari owners when you go to meets? I have a friend that used to own a Mondial and they weren't very appreciative that he owned a Mondial, whereas there were plenty of 308's at various meets that were welcomed. I find this very strange, not that I would give a damn what people thought of my car choice.. well I bought a Porsche
I am going to keep an eye open and see if the right one pops up. I absolutely love those squared off parallel lines, that are so 80's / Pininfarina. I've done the thrashy cars, and I love true GT's of which my 928 is legendary for eating miles at speed in comfort. This is most certainly an itch I really need to scratch. Why don't you put it in the Readers Cars section? That way we can follow the progress
I have only recently joined the Ferrari Club here in Australia, so I can't really comment on reactions from other Ferrari owners. However the car seems to get a very positive response from people in general. Good idea about the Reader's Cars section. I'll get around to that.What you have said was also backed up by a guy I met at the Ace Cafe this summer that had a mint 412GT in black. He was very pleased with it and so he should be it was lovely.
Do you get acceptance from the other Ferrari owners when you go to meets? I have a friend that used to own a Mondial and they weren't very appreciative that he owned a Mondial, whereas there were plenty of 308's at various meets that were welcomed. I find this very strange, not that I would give a damn what people thought of my car choice.. well I bought a Porsche
I am going to keep an eye open and see if the right one pops up. I absolutely love those squared off parallel lines, that are so 80's / Pininfarina. I've done the thrashy cars, and I love true GT's of which my 928 is legendary for eating miles at speed in comfort. This is most certainly an itch I really need to scratch. Why don't you put it in the Readers Cars section? That way we can follow the progress
I've loved the 400 ever since I saw one at the Haynes Motor Museum a few years back, I also love the 456 and 612. I think its because these V12 2+2 are not always the first choice for Ferrari buyers and as result are not that well known and quite rare.
All the ones shown on this thread look great
All the ones shown on this thread look great
Lord Flathead said:
Some great information there thank you both. Verdi, my local service agent, has gone bust (apparently in a rather controversial way) and they were about a mile from where I live. Not sure if that's a good thing or not!
What you have said was also backed up by a guy I met at the Ace Cafe this summer that had a mint 412GT in black. He was very pleased with it and so he should be it was lovely.
Do you get acceptance from the other Ferrari owners when you go to meets? I have a friend that used to own a Mondial and they weren't very appreciative that he owned a Mondial, whereas there were plenty of 308's at various meets that were welcomed. I find this very strange, not that I would give a damn what people thought of my car choice.. well I bought a Porsche
I am going to keep an eye open and see if the right one pops up. I absolutely love those squared off parallel lines, that are so 80's / Pininfarina. I've done the thrashy cars, and I love true GT's of which my 928 is legendary for eating miles at speed in comfort. This is most certainly an itch I really need to scratch. Why don't you put it in the Readers Cars section? That way we can follow the progress
Simon, realised that I didn't answer your question about acceptance by others. What you have said was also backed up by a guy I met at the Ace Cafe this summer that had a mint 412GT in black. He was very pleased with it and so he should be it was lovely.
Do you get acceptance from the other Ferrari owners when you go to meets? I have a friend that used to own a Mondial and they weren't very appreciative that he owned a Mondial, whereas there were plenty of 308's at various meets that were welcomed. I find this very strange, not that I would give a damn what people thought of my car choice.. well I bought a Porsche
I am going to keep an eye open and see if the right one pops up. I absolutely love those squared off parallel lines, that are so 80's / Pininfarina. I've done the thrashy cars, and I love true GT's of which my 928 is legendary for eating miles at speed in comfort. This is most certainly an itch I really need to scratch. Why don't you put it in the Readers Cars section? That way we can follow the progress
The 400 gets an overwhelmingly positive reaction from others wherever I take it - mostly because it's rare / unusual and the sharp lines have aged well. Also, because the styling is subtle not shouty it doesn't attract negative attention that some other Ferrari owners experience.
In terms of those Ferrari owners, those I have met / shown the car to have been very welcoming. I think there is a legacy of poorly maintained cars leading to a poor reputation but this is gradually being rehabilitated by owners who are showing the cars the love and attention they deserve e.g. a very fine looking metallic blue 400 is on the front cover of the owners club magazine this month as part of the national club concours display.
If you like your 928, I think you'll like 400s. I'll add to the Readers' Cars section...you can follow the winter works...:-)
Just found this convertible for sale, I can't decide whether it looks 'right' or not. Seems cheap though!
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C274297
I love the 400, such a statement of an era
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C274297
I love the 400, such a statement of an era
They look far better when the roof is down and covered by a tonneau (the conversions were carried out by a few people, but most in the UK were completed By Autocraft, the same people who went on to revive AC Cobra production).
The car in the link looks like the same car I spotted a few months ago on a transporter in Warrington
The car in the link looks like the same car I spotted a few months ago on a transporter in Warrington
Had kind of promised myself one of these for semi regular use when my business starts to give me a more comfortable return. Liked them ever since I saw one in Rain Man when I was in my mid teens. (OT - was that really 1988??) Had kind of moved towards a 456 lately but still think its an itch that I'll need to scratch at some point.
I've always loved having cars that you don't see coming the other way too often. A 20 year old 16v Corrado and a 14 year old Vr6 Golf are currently sharing space in my garage/drive with a Chrysler Delta, that's a fairly eclectic mix but nobody anywhere near where I live has anything like them! Although I do recognise that some of those photo's are taken less than 20 miles away from where I live so although I've never seen it there's obviously a 400 series in Aberdeenshire!!
I've always loved having cars that you don't see coming the other way too often. A 20 year old 16v Corrado and a 14 year old Vr6 Golf are currently sharing space in my garage/drive with a Chrysler Delta, that's a fairly eclectic mix but nobody anywhere near where I live has anything like them! Although I do recognise that some of those photo's are taken less than 20 miles away from where I live so although I've never seen it there's obviously a 400 series in Aberdeenshire!!
deeen said:
Well, seems like I may be going to look at a Ferrari 400 for sale tomorrow.
Anything particular to look out for / avoid? Any great tips?
Cheers Dean
Rust, Rust, Rust, Rust and corroding bodywork! The cars came from the factory with a few pounds of lead smoothing the bodywork out, so best to make absolutely certain rust isnt being hidden by paint and fillerAnything particular to look out for / avoid? Any great tips?
Cheers Dean
Depending on the age of car (series 2 400i’s and on, have more electrical goodies) check all the electrics work and the heating and ventilation controls slide without being forced.
Check the exhaust for any leaks, the motor for any tappet noises, the power steering for groans, that the rear suspension self-levelling works (if fitted, some very early 80’s cars didn’t have it)
Did I mention the rust?
Check that the milimetric tyres are in good order, aren’t too old and show no signs of cracking, for day to day use, Volvo 850T5 wheels fit (with the correct tyres and small spacers at the rear)
Check that all the lights work and that the lenses aren’t cracked, really check the front indicators as they are rather expensive when you can find themIf it’s a series 2 car, check that it has the original mirrors (should be the same as a 328 / boxer / Countach QV) as some cars have had them replaced with the bulky ones fitted to the series 1 cars.
If it’s a none injected 400, almost all of the above, plus check that the cars starts and goes as it should, with no hesitation that would suggest that the carbs need tweaking.
Check that the car doesn’t smoke on startup and when warm, if you’ve got the kit, do a leak down and compression test, some cars still have the old valve guides and smoke, some have sticky rings and smoke . . . and a 400 engine costs as much as a Daytona motor to rebuild
Check the screens aren’t delaminating (no white splodges at the edges and corners)
Then if your happy and it’s a nice car, get somebody to do a ppi on it (should only cost a couple of hundred pounds and can save you thousands)
It’s not all doom and gloom, good ones are very nice cars, bad ones are very expensive to turn into good ones (I’ve had a dozen or so of both!). . . . . . .
Oh and look out for any rust
Edited by AndrewW-G on Monday 9th January 19:35
Very useful, thanks Andrew! Just 15 minutes and I can practically print that as a checklist. I love the power of PH!
I do not have the kit for compression test etc., but am planning to surprise him into a cold start.
Often the seller's reaction tells you as much as the actual car!
If my first visit does not rule it out, I would probably get an expert for a second opinion.
So, you think there is a slight chance of rust, then?
I do not have the kit for compression test etc., but am planning to surprise him into a cold start.
Often the seller's reaction tells you as much as the actual car!
If my first visit does not rule it out, I would probably get an expert for a second opinion.
So, you think there is a slight chance of rust, then?
deeen said:
Very useful, thanks Andrew! Just 15 minutes and I can practically print that as a checklist. I love the power of PH!
I do not have the kit for compression test etc., but am planning to surprise him into a cold start.
Often the seller's reaction tells you as much as the actual car!
If my first visit does not rule it out, I would probably get an expert for a second opinion.
So, you think there is a slight chance of rust, then?
I may have seen the odd one or two with a spot of rust I do not have the kit for compression test etc., but am planning to surprise him into a cold start.
Often the seller's reaction tells you as much as the actual car!
If my first visit does not rule it out, I would probably get an expert for a second opinion.
So, you think there is a slight chance of rust, then?
Pic attached is of #30897 that had a serious amount of rust, underneath approx 4-5lbs of lead filler!
deeen said:
Ok, well I'll try not to scrape his paint with my magnet
It's described as a 1981 400i GT, so on the cusp for self-leveling?
Would be simpler without, I guess.
Yes it's simpler without, you'll be able to tell, both by the way it operates and if the shocks have what look like hard brake lines coming out of them, going to a balance bar and pressure valve in the underneath middle of the boot floor & there is pump in the engine bay.It's described as a 1981 400i GT, so on the cusp for self-leveling?
Would be simpler without, I guess.
Ferrari at the time weren’t that keen on keeping records, so which cars have it and which don’t is a bit of pot luck
Google [bot] said:
Love them, beautiful car. Did this used to often sit on the street in Slurry Hills perchance? Though if it's the same one I've not seen it for a couple of years, so likely prior to your ownership.
If a white 928 waves at you, give it a wave back.
Well - er - first viewing tomorrow, so early days for waving at white 928s !If a white 928 waves at you, give it a wave back.
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