Any love for the Ferrari 400 here? Anyone?
Discussion
Yes yes, what he ^^ says 
OR
1) He bought it and killed himself on the way home
2) Someone else bought and he killed himself anyway.
3) It wasn't what he was looking for, but the bloke selling it was a nice chap anyway.
4) "My God, was I actually going to buy a Ferrari?"
5) He's bought it and still out driving in it.
Place your bets
OR
1) He bought it and killed himself on the way home
2) Someone else bought and he killed himself anyway.
3) It wasn't what he was looking for, but the bloke selling it was a nice chap anyway.
4) "My God, was I actually going to buy a Ferrari?"
5) He's bought it and still out driving in it.
Place your bets
Lord Flathead said:
Yes yes, what he ^^ says
OR
1) He bought it and killed himself on the way home
2) Someone else bought and he killed himself anyway.
3) It wasn't what he was looking for, but the bloke selling it was a nice chap anyway.
4) "My God, was I actually going to buy a Ferrari?"
5) He's bought it and still out driving in it.
Place your bets
6) He's bought it and broken down / run out of petrolOR
1) He bought it and killed himself on the way home
2) Someone else bought and he killed himself anyway.
3) It wasn't what he was looking for, but the bloke selling it was a nice chap anyway.
4) "My God, was I actually going to buy a Ferrari?"
5) He's bought it and still out driving in it.
Place your bets
Saw the comments about buying a 400. I've loved these for years and bought a lovely 1978 400 with 36,000 miles a few weeks ago. Previous owner had it for 8 years and really looked after it. So far so good except for carbs needing setting up which is being done tomorrow. I looked at a few and they all had issues but this one was exceptional with no rust anywhere and history going back to day one. I don't care what anyone thinks, these are beautiful cars, maybe not for the Ferrari purist but if you buy one because you like them that's good enough.
Justayellowbadge said:
deeen said:
Well - er - first viewing tomorrow, so early days for waving at white 928s !
And?It was a mixed bag, as you would expect.
Looked very good from 10 yards away, reminded me of my 2500 TC, nice paint job, all my mates loved it, hiding some issues I guess.
It's at QV London in Wickfield, Berks. Just to say Philip and Mike were nice guys to deal with, up front, not too much sugar coating. Seemed like people you could do business with; they do more servicing than selling I think, they seem to be Ferrari enthusiasts.
Biggest issues for me were absolutely no history, so you'd have to buy it as a keeper, really. Blue smoke less than a minute after cold start up gave way to white after 4 / 5 minutes, I'd want an engine expert to comment on / test that. Fair play, they didn't know I was coming, started from cold first time, and they will accept any expert inspection / put it on ramps if required, etc.
Rust just starting to lift the paint above the front and rear screens, and some signs of rust under the passenger rear side window. Both doors inexplicably a bit wavy below the swage line, passenger door was worse. Both doors dropped, hinges not adjustable, fabricate new pins I guess. Both bumpers slight cracks in paint commensurate with filler, rear was worst. Front lights looked new and undamaged, rears both ambers were cracked. Front outriggers and cills patched, but ok for now.
Interior - that tan leather is a bit orange, an acquired taste maybe! Good condition for 30 years old, no actual cracks or tears, tiny permanent scratch on passenger seat. The lacquer / varnish on the wood is looking a bit tired, only 1 actual crack though.
Good points - well everything seems to be present, correct and working. Chrome all looks good. New exhaust in last year i'd say, and brand new tyres. They say they've changed the clutch and front brakes. Older style independent rear dampers - no self-leveling tubes. Dark blue gloss paint - not metallic - should be easy match.
So probably not for me. I'll probably kick myself when I look at the values after 10 years... If the engine is sound, I reckon you could budget 1 big job a year and keep it on the road, or run it for a couple of years with just the minimum 6000 mile services and hope the values pick up to recover what you paid. Could look quite a bit worse after 2 years if the rust bubbles through, I think. If the engine needs a total rebuild, it's almost a write-off, of course.
Finally, they're not really interested in P/X. They're very keen on saying how rare the manuals are, but if you walk in with cash, I get the feeling there is a deal to be done.
Nice one Deeen. Very thorough reportage there, I put '3' for you as a get out of jail card 
Much better to walk away if in any doubt as you lose the love immediately and then end with an expensive neglected car.
What next, got anything else lined up? It's not like there are hundreds of them about these days.
Much better to walk away if in any doubt as you lose the love immediately and then end with an expensive neglected car.
What next, got anything else lined up? It's not like there are hundreds of them about these days.
deeen said:
Lord Flathead - "3" is correct!
It was a mixed bag, as you would expect.
Looked very good from 10 yards away, reminded me of my 2500 TC, nice paint job, all my mates loved it, hiding some issues I guess.
It's at QV London in Wickfield, Berks. Just to say Philip and Mike were nice guys to deal with, up front, not too much sugar coating. Seemed like people you could do business with; they do more servicing than selling I think, they seem to be Ferrari enthusiasts.
Biggest issues for me were absolutely no history, so you'd have to buy it as a keeper, really. Blue smoke less than a minute after cold start up gave way to white after 4 / 5 minutes, I'd want an engine expert to comment on / test that. Fair play, they didn't know I was coming, started from cold first time, and they will accept any expert inspection / put it on ramps if required, etc.
Rust just starting to lift the paint above the front and rear screens, and some signs of rust under the passenger rear side window. Both doors inexplicably a bit wavy below the swage line, passenger door was worse. Both doors dropped, hinges not adjustable, fabricate new pins I guess. Both bumpers slight cracks in paint commensurate with filler, rear was worst. Front lights looked new and undamaged, rears both ambers were cracked. Front outriggers and cills patched, but ok for now.
Interior - that tan leather is a bit orange, an acquired taste maybe! Good condition for 30 years old, no actual cracks or tears, tiny permanent scratch on passenger seat. The lacquer / varnish on the wood is looking a bit tired, only 1 actual crack though.
Good points - well everything seems to be present, correct and working. Chrome all looks good. New exhaust in last year i'd say, and brand new tyres. They say they've changed the clutch and front brakes. Older style independent rear dampers - no self-leveling tubes. Dark blue gloss paint - not metallic - should be easy match.
So probably not for me. I'll probably kick myself when I look at the values after 10 years... If the engine is sound, I reckon you could budget 1 big job a year and keep it on the road, or run it for a couple of years with just the minimum 6000 mile services and hope the values pick up to recover what you paid. Could look quite a bit worse after 2 years if the rust bubbles through, I think. If the engine needs a total rebuild, it's almost a write-off, of course.
Finally, they're not really interested in P/X. They're very keen on saying how rare the manuals are, but if you walk in with cash, I get the feeling there is a deal to be done.
Interesting feedback on the viewing. It was a mixed bag, as you would expect.
Looked very good from 10 yards away, reminded me of my 2500 TC, nice paint job, all my mates loved it, hiding some issues I guess.
It's at QV London in Wickfield, Berks. Just to say Philip and Mike were nice guys to deal with, up front, not too much sugar coating. Seemed like people you could do business with; they do more servicing than selling I think, they seem to be Ferrari enthusiasts.
Biggest issues for me were absolutely no history, so you'd have to buy it as a keeper, really. Blue smoke less than a minute after cold start up gave way to white after 4 / 5 minutes, I'd want an engine expert to comment on / test that. Fair play, they didn't know I was coming, started from cold first time, and they will accept any expert inspection / put it on ramps if required, etc.
Rust just starting to lift the paint above the front and rear screens, and some signs of rust under the passenger rear side window. Both doors inexplicably a bit wavy below the swage line, passenger door was worse. Both doors dropped, hinges not adjustable, fabricate new pins I guess. Both bumpers slight cracks in paint commensurate with filler, rear was worst. Front lights looked new and undamaged, rears both ambers were cracked. Front outriggers and cills patched, but ok for now.
Interior - that tan leather is a bit orange, an acquired taste maybe! Good condition for 30 years old, no actual cracks or tears, tiny permanent scratch on passenger seat. The lacquer / varnish on the wood is looking a bit tired, only 1 actual crack though.
Good points - well everything seems to be present, correct and working. Chrome all looks good. New exhaust in last year i'd say, and brand new tyres. They say they've changed the clutch and front brakes. Older style independent rear dampers - no self-leveling tubes. Dark blue gloss paint - not metallic - should be easy match.
So probably not for me. I'll probably kick myself when I look at the values after 10 years... If the engine is sound, I reckon you could budget 1 big job a year and keep it on the road, or run it for a couple of years with just the minimum 6000 mile services and hope the values pick up to recover what you paid. Could look quite a bit worse after 2 years if the rust bubbles through, I think. If the engine needs a total rebuild, it's almost a write-off, of course.
Finally, they're not really interested in P/X. They're very keen on saying how rare the manuals are, but if you walk in with cash, I get the feeling there is a deal to be done.
A few thoughts which might (or might not!) help others on this thread:
1) Mike and QV are experts in Ferraris of this era and know their stuff. I trust them to maintain my 400 and they have always done a good job. As you mention, they
focus on servicing, and sell quite rarely
2) White smoke in cold weather and when the engine is cold is not necessarily a cause for concern but it should disappear when the engine is warm - if not, that's a warning sign and needs to be checked out
3) Lack of history is a major issue, you would expect most well looked after 400s to come with a file as thick as a telephone directory. If not, budget for a major service plus at least £3-5k contingency to sort out issues arising
4) Rust as described is a cause for concern. Rust around the windscreen is problematic because eventually it gets under the screen frame unseen and can cause the screen to crack (it happened to me), this is a +£1k job although insurance may cover if you are lucky. Rust below the 3/4 windows is also very common but also expensive to fix as the windows may need to come out, budget +£1k per side
5) Everything working is good news, in particular indicating electrics in good shape. New clutch, exhaust and tyres big pluses because these are all expensive.
On balance, from what you've described, the condition seems to reflect the pricing which is keen for a manual 400.
But the big question is unanswered - how did she drive?
Everything else can be forgiven if the car drives well (sharp and tight) - and they really do vary a lot!
Hope that's helpful.
the 400i manual isn't on car and classic now. maybe its sold? (or i missed the ad)
I think it was sold at auction before christmas, the autos outnumbered the manuals by about 6 to 1 (unless its a 365 as they're all manuals) so they are rare.
Here's a pic of my 84 400i manual (the interior is out at the moment as i'm recolouring it)
its 1 of only 28 RHD imported.
best car ever in my eyes, hankered after one for 35 years since i was a kid,picked one up last year cost under 10K running well but needed some TLC
I think it was sold at auction before christmas, the autos outnumbered the manuals by about 6 to 1 (unless its a 365 as they're all manuals) so they are rare.
Here's a pic of my 84 400i manual (the interior is out at the moment as i'm recolouring it)
its 1 of only 28 RHD imported.
best car ever in my eyes, hankered after one for 35 years since i was a kid,picked one up last year cost under 10K running well but needed some TLC
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