Quick question - Enzo respray
Discussion
JazzyO said:
snuffle said:
I thought this was a forum for people that enjoyed cars, not a point scoring exercise.
It isn't a point scoring exercise at all. The point of a forum is to inform people about what is available out there, is it not? I was unaware of the differences in quality available before I got involved with restorations about 3 years ago and I am offering my experience for other people to hopefully help them make their choices. NOT, as I have said before, for them to make the same choices I made, but to be more informed before they make their own.It is about ensuring you're happy with your choice, and stay happy with it. It is not about what you (or I) spend. But there is no denying that, on average, better quality will cost more. Not a new concept.
Onno
pwd95 said:
... remain uncomfortable with your comments. They only made 6 420SE's & Al has done a world class job on this one.If yours is better that's fine but I believe you've been dis propotionate with your words. Who was better, Hagler or Sugar Ray......
pwd95 said:
... remain uncomfortable with your comments. They only made 6 420SE's & Al has done a world class job on this one.If yours is better that's fine but I believe you've been dis propotionate with your words. Who was better, Hagler or Sugar Ray......
Camlet said:
Ultimately I believe it's about finding a firm you trust comprising craftspeople who are deeply passionate about their work, tools which are best in class, giving them a very clear brief about your desired outcome and allowing them to make their recommendation without the constraints of a budget. Then one can make a considered decision about what's a compromise, what's an exciting project and what's plain crazy. That's where I am right now. I'm seriously thinking of taking my 599 GTB which is in Silverstone and having it resprayed to a very specific design and colour scheme which pays hommage to the 212 Inter Vignale "Bumblebee". Yes I'm bonkers but I'm fed up with the dumb prices offered by the trade for my prisitne low mileage motor, I don't have to sell and I've always had a mad passion about the Bumblebee ever since buying a model of it at the Geneva Salon in 2000. So I've commissioned a CAD 3D mock up and assuming it really nails it, I'll dive into a detailed process per above.
Now that sounds like an interesting project. It would be great to see something different on a Ferrari. Can I recommend www.mototechnique.com if you are looking for a very high quality paint job. But as I said earlier this is not going to be cheapStreetrod said:
Now that sounds like an interesting project. It would be great to see something different on a Ferrari. Can I recommend www.mototechnique.com if you are looking for a very high quality paint job. But as I said earlier this is not going to be cheap
Very interesting indeed! 250GTO #3527 was done by Mototechnique. Certainly a great job.
Onno
Some nice shots of the restoration of #3527 available at this gallery...
http://www.insideline.com/ferrari/250-gto/photos/t...
Here's one.
http://www.insideline.com/ferrari/250-gto/photos/t...
Here's one.
Streetrod said:
Now that sounds like an interesting project. It would be great to see something different on a Ferrari. Can I recommend www.mototechnique.com if you are looking for a very high quality paint job. But as I said earlier this is not going to be cheap
Thanks for the link. Cool gallery; they call that work? Also opened up "Don't Open" (....they know their punters). The crashed F40s in particular made me wince. Goodness knows how they put these cars back together but per Onno's earlier general point, that's what you pay for. In mototechnique's example however, it would have been more convincing had they shown the before with the after, and where possible, the relevant client testimonial to verify all was good. I know a couple of people on here have had their cars painted by Mototechnique and i think they have nothing but praise for their work. A number of cars they have restored have also been featured in magazines like this amazing 300SL 
http://www.mototechnique.com/gullwingpage6.html
http://www.mototechnique.com/gullwingpage6.html
Hi
Here is my opinion, I have worked on a serious amount of valuable cars which have been restored/repaired and have worked on well over a dozen Enzo's now.
Pictures do not really show how good a paint job is and so I wouldn't judge one by this method, you need to see it in the flesh. Respraying an Enzo is a lot more difficult than respraying something like a Mondeo, you cannot compare the two...
Then when you bring in car's like F40's, Lusso's, Gullwings and 275's etc, you need to know exactly what you are doing to ensure it stays looking as it would from the factory, pretty much all these cars have had paintwork, many restored, very few of these have been done to a perfect quality. Hell there have been some companiesthat have been responsible for £200-300k restorations that I've worked upon, although good, but still not top notch though in my opinion.
To answer the original question, there is no way a detail would be more expensive that a top class paint job. It would cost far far less in fact. Every Enzo I have done has cost the client thousands, this may sound like a lot to a few but a quality respray would cost a hell of a lot more.
Regards
G
Here is my opinion, I have worked on a serious amount of valuable cars which have been restored/repaired and have worked on well over a dozen Enzo's now.
Pictures do not really show how good a paint job is and so I wouldn't judge one by this method, you need to see it in the flesh. Respraying an Enzo is a lot more difficult than respraying something like a Mondeo, you cannot compare the two...
Then when you bring in car's like F40's, Lusso's, Gullwings and 275's etc, you need to know exactly what you are doing to ensure it stays looking as it would from the factory, pretty much all these cars have had paintwork, many restored, very few of these have been done to a perfect quality. Hell there have been some companiesthat have been responsible for £200-300k restorations that I've worked upon, although good, but still not top notch though in my opinion.
To answer the original question, there is no way a detail would be more expensive that a top class paint job. It would cost far far less in fact. Every Enzo I have done has cost the client thousands, this may sound like a lot to a few but a quality respray would cost a hell of a lot more.
Regards
G
elitedetailer said:
Hi
Here is my opinion, I have worked on a serious amount of valuable cars which have been restored/repaired and have worked on well over a dozen Enzo's now.
Pictures do not really show how good a paint job is and so I wouldn't judge one by this method, you need to see it in the flesh. Respraying an Enzo is a lot more difficult than respraying something like a Mondeo, you cannot compare the two...
Then when you bring in car's like F40's, Lusso's, Gullwings and 275's etc, you need to know exactly what you are doing to ensure it stays looking as it would from the factory, pretty much all these cars have had paintwork, many restored, very few of these have been done to a perfect quality. Hell there have been some companiesthat have been responsible for £200-300k restorations that I've worked upon, although good, but still not top notch though in my opinion.
To answer the original question, there is no way a detail would be more expensive that a top class paint job. It would cost far far less in fact. Every Enzo I have done has cost the client thousands, this may sound like a lot to a few but a quality respray would cost a hell of a lot more.
Regards
G
Well said it would be good to here from you any bodyshops in the south that really are A1,would be good to see a few of the F1's you have detailed also Here is my opinion, I have worked on a serious amount of valuable cars which have been restored/repaired and have worked on well over a dozen Enzo's now.
Pictures do not really show how good a paint job is and so I wouldn't judge one by this method, you need to see it in the flesh. Respraying an Enzo is a lot more difficult than respraying something like a Mondeo, you cannot compare the two...
Then when you bring in car's like F40's, Lusso's, Gullwings and 275's etc, you need to know exactly what you are doing to ensure it stays looking as it would from the factory, pretty much all these cars have had paintwork, many restored, very few of these have been done to a perfect quality. Hell there have been some companiesthat have been responsible for £200-300k restorations that I've worked upon, although good, but still not top notch though in my opinion.
To answer the original question, there is no way a detail would be more expensive that a top class paint job. It would cost far far less in fact. Every Enzo I have done has cost the client thousands, this may sound like a lot to a few but a quality respray would cost a hell of a lot more.
Regards
G
Russ
Well well well.
I've just been down at KDS to get my Elise sorted, prepared for, and through, an MOT. I know that I can come across as a bit of a fanboy at times but hey, at least I put my money where my mouth is; my car is going nowhere else, for anything, ever.
But the reason for the 'HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION, BATMAN!' is that while I was there I got a good look round the Enzo that they've just repainted. Thinking it was all but finished, I took a few photos and was generally blown away at the level of perfection achieved. Crystal clear reflections, no orange peel whatsoever, no runs, no overspray, straight edges on the underside of panels, not a single blemish or swirl (and I can be a picky sod).
And then Kelly told me 'oh that's still only been rough polished, there's still medium and fine cuts to go yet.'
As usual, I then got a mind-boggling lesson in paint technology, chemistry and physics (anyone who's ever spoken to Kelly at any length will know what I mean) and he asked me how much paint I thought it took to do the whole car. I haven't got a clue, but he's also posed the same question on DW and I guess there a few people on this thread who might fancy trying their luck/showing their smarts. Thread is here.
I deleted my cameraphone pics but then I saw he's posted some anyway; remember, this is NOT FINISHED.
There's a quote on that DW thread that begins to directly answer the OP: almost 1,000 man hours at the moment.
Thread back on topic!
I've just been down at KDS to get my Elise sorted, prepared for, and through, an MOT. I know that I can come across as a bit of a fanboy at times but hey, at least I put my money where my mouth is; my car is going nowhere else, for anything, ever.
But the reason for the 'HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION, BATMAN!' is that while I was there I got a good look round the Enzo that they've just repainted. Thinking it was all but finished, I took a few photos and was generally blown away at the level of perfection achieved. Crystal clear reflections, no orange peel whatsoever, no runs, no overspray, straight edges on the underside of panels, not a single blemish or swirl (and I can be a picky sod).
And then Kelly told me 'oh that's still only been rough polished, there's still medium and fine cuts to go yet.'
As usual, I then got a mind-boggling lesson in paint technology, chemistry and physics (anyone who's ever spoken to Kelly at any length will know what I mean) and he asked me how much paint I thought it took to do the whole car. I haven't got a clue, but he's also posed the same question on DW and I guess there a few people on this thread who might fancy trying their luck/showing their smarts. Thread is here.
I deleted my cameraphone pics but then I saw he's posted some anyway; remember, this is NOT FINISHED.
There's a quote on that DW thread that begins to directly answer the OP: almost 1,000 man hours at the moment.
Thread back on topic!
I too have machine corrected an Enzo (must be hundreds considering how many of us have worked on them haha) and for me, a detail is alot cheaper and as long as the paint is original then is the way forward.
My insurance told me that to respray an Enzo will cost from £30,000 then would need to be machine corrected anyway.
So whilst I don't know the exact price that Clark charged for his detail on the Enzo it will be cheaper than a re-spray.
Will it be better than a full respray by Kelly? Well one is original paint and one isnt.
Does that effect the value of the car?
My insurance told me that to respray an Enzo will cost from £30,000 then would need to be machine corrected anyway.
So whilst I don't know the exact price that Clark charged for his detail on the Enzo it will be cheaper than a re-spray.
Will it be better than a full respray by Kelly? Well one is original paint and one isnt.
Does that effect the value of the car?
Edited by iwanna on Sunday 20th May 11:16
fyfe said:
Alsa have a fixed pricelist here - http://www.alsaautomotive.co.uk/index.php?option=c...
There's no Enzo on the list but these prices will probably give you a rough idea. I think it'd need to be some mighty detailed detailing to rack up these sort of numbers...
I have used them several times and the quality of work is excellent.There's no Enzo on the list but these prices will probably give you a rough idea. I think it'd need to be some mighty detailed detailing to rack up these sort of numbers...
iwanna said:
Will it be better than a full respray by Kelly? Well one is original paint and one isnt.
Does that effect the value of the car?
It's an interesting question and I'm sure there was a good discussion on it recently on PH, but can't recall where.Does that effect the value of the car?
Anyway - what it comes down to, I think, is the rare "uber-collectors", shall we call them, who have to have it as 100% orignianl - whether a 250 SWB or a 16M, then it will of course effect their perception of the car's value. But let's not beat around the bush; quality resprays will be an order of magnitude better than the factory finish as it came from Ferrari.
So if you want original, you can, or if you want perfection, you can. I don't think you can have both.
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