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Peloton25
577 posts
107 months
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Can't speak for anyone else's background but I've been pursuing every bit of knowledge I can find on these great cars for more than a decade now. There are still a few unsolved mysteries. There are also some things we know and other things we only think we know, so for now the journey continues.
>8^)
ER
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Sofoklis
102 posts
11 months
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Peloton25 said: Sofoklis said: Cars as rare and exclusive as the F1 are rarely found on Autotrader. These rare breeds are probably sold through brokers, exclusive auction houses or even McLaren themselves. The last known car to sell in the public domain was at RM Auctions in October 2008. This was a standard McLaren F1 road-car and it fetched in excess of £2.5 million $4.1 million. Cars of today are probably closer if not exceeding the £3 million mark. An LM probably double that price if not more. Why you may ask? For the very simple reason of supply and demand and sheer exclusivity. Actually the last public sale of an F1 was at the August 2010 Gooding & Co auction in Monterey, CA held in conjunction with the Pebble Beach weekend. The car sold at this event was slightly less exceptional than #065, which was the former McLaren showroom car sold by RM in 2008. This was instead chassis #062 - originally owned by Oracle's Larry Ellison, then with a different owner for a few years prior to the auction. Unlike #065 which had barely been used, this car had around 3,500 miles on the odometer. One big selling point for the high bidder was the car had cleared not only all the hurdles for US importation, but was also certified compliant in California where he makes his home. The result of the 2010 auction was a final price of $3.575M after premium. This was also considered a very healthy result and served to validate the previous figure achieved by #065 and further strengthen the perceived value of all other McLaren F1s as well. >8^) ER My previous post referring to the 2008 RM auction car sale was merely based on UK car sales that was public knowledge. On the subject on car sales and out of curiosity, Why do you consider #65 as exceptional compared any other F1? Low mileage should have little baring on vehicle value? A car with a tardy interior or well used exterior should also have no massive influence on price. These are what I personally consider as superficial items that can be easily replenished for a price. If its originality that you are referring to, of the percentage of F1s that have been produced, how many are still in their original factory specification? Originality should also not have a huge influence on price as I can only assume that a high percentage of each new proud owner would probably want to tailor their car in the colour style or scheme that suits them.
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Peloton25
577 posts
107 months
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Sofoklis said: My previous post referring to the 2008 RM auction car sale was merely based on UK car sales that was public knowledge. That isn't what you wrote - your statement was much more general. There is a worldwide market for these cars and many avenues to trade one so referring only to UK sales is not ideal. I simply provided more recent information - no harm, no foul. Sofoklis said: On the subject on car sales and out of curiosity, Why do you consider #65 as exceptional compared any other F1? Low mileage should have little baring on vehicle value? A car with a tardy interior or well used exterior should also have no massive influence on price. These are what I personally consider as superficial items that can be easily replenished for a price. If its originality that you are referring to, of the percentage of F1s that have been produced, how many are still in their original factory specification?
Originality should also not have a huge influence on price as I can only assume that a high percentage of each new proud owner would probably want to tailor their car in the colour style or scheme that suits them. I don't necessarily consider any F1 to be more exceptional than another. There are some cars I personally prefer, however, I am not in this market therefore any opinion I might have is largely irrelevant. The bidders at that auction who battled to win the car in late 2008 obviously felt there was something exceptional about that particular F1 as the price exceeded all estimates and finished at more than double the last most recent public sale figure. There is something to be said for provenance with these blue chip cars and the story that goes with #065 was clearly regarded to be more valuable than that of many other F1s to those potential buyers and certainly to its new owner who appeared prepared to pay even more. I agree with you that the car is the car and that nearly any F1 chassis is equal to all others in its most basic form - at least with the road versions. Any car can present nearly the same canvas as another for a new owner's desires for uniqueness. Originality may play to some, as may low mileage. Some may wish for a later chassis number where more of the early build issues had been sorted - the car fitting together better so I have been told. It is all up to the person writing the check. >8^) ER
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Cheib
6,214 posts
44 months
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Maxeh said: What are the general views on the red and white F1? Nasty. Can't stand the interior.....the paint job is "okay" but I don't like the wheels.
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Sofoklis
102 posts
11 months
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Cheib said: Maxeh said: What are the general views on the red and white F1? Nasty. Can't stand the interior.....the paint job is "okay" but I don't like the wheels. As individuals, each and every one of us have personal tastes and preferences. Those who dislike red will obviously not like it. Those who do will probably love it. The purist will say its too loud and aggressive. Personally I am not a huge fan of red and if I had a car like the F1, I would probably go for something a little more subtle. There is something about this white and Red car though that I really like and its growing on me with the more photos I see. With the exception of the race car liveries, this is so radically different in many ways, it makes you want to like it just because its a break from the norm. I say well done to the owner for being brave and different. A real stand out car. Love the wheels and the carbon dash but the titanium exhaust tailpipes look bloody awesome. Is it me or has he also opted for an LM style handbrake and gear lever? Nice touch
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f1ten
603 posts
22 months
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does anyone know what happened to the McLaren F1 that was in Chelsea, reg plate M1MAC?
i think he has recently sold his house, but the car dissapeared a long time ago and he moved the reg plate to his Cayenne Turbo 5 + yrs ago.
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Justices
2,336 posts
33 months
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Right you F1 boffins, here's a question for you. The race cars that are converted for road use, can a third seat be added on the right side of driver's seat? If so, has anyone done it or is the preference to keep the car as original as possible? As you'll have realised, I have little idea as to what all the equipment is in place of the seat and footwell does so have no idea if it is essential to car functioning  
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BelfastBoy
524 posts
29 months
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Justices said: Right you F1 boffins, here's a question for you. The race cars that are converted for road use, can a third seat be added on the right side of driver's seat? If so, has anyone done it or is the preference to keep the car as original as possible? As you'll have realised, I have little idea as to what all the equipment is in place of the seat and footwell does so have no idea if it is essential to car functioning Someone smarter than me will have the definitive response, but my understanding is that the control panel to the driver's right is for engine management and so would probably be mechanically essential. Among F1 enthusiasts, there also seems to be an understandable desire by some owners to keep the converted road cars as close to racing spec as is possible while still being road legal. (If nothing else, many of the racers achieved genuine track success.) So, for example, there's usually a flurry of discussion if a converted car doesn't maintain its racing livery and is instead made to look like an LM model by being painted Papaya Orange...
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hurstg01
1,892 posts
112 months
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BelfastBoy said: Justices said: Right you F1 boffins, here's a question for you. The race cars that are converted for road use, can a third seat be added on the right side of driver's seat? If so, has anyone done it or is the preference to keep the car as original as possible? As you'll have realised, I have little idea as to what all the equipment is in place of the seat and footwell does so have no idea if it is essential to car functioning Someone smarter than me will have the definitive response, but my understanding is that the control panel to the driver's right is for engine management and so would probably be mechanically essential. Among F1 enthusiasts, there also seems to be an understandable desire by some owners to keep the converted road cars as close to racing spec as is possible while still being road legal. (If nothing else, many of the racers achieved genuine track success.) So, for example, there's usually a flurry of discussion if a converted car doesn't maintain its racing livery and is instead made to look like an LM model by being painted Papaya Orange... One owner has 3 seats in his road-converted non-LM-look-a-like GTR 
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johnnyreggae
825 posts
29 months
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jonny5 said: How much are F1 road cars selling for now (last documented sale ?) Next non-road F1 at Bonhams Monterey auction August 17 - chassis 028R
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Sofoklis
102 posts
11 months
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The LM is the only 3 seater car with GTR looks, performance and chsracteristics. 95 and 96 GTRS theoretically should only ever be able to safely seat 2 people. The RH side of the cabin interior is full with the electronic fuse and relay panel for the entire car. There is no space available to condense and reposition all the switch gear to accomodate a 3rd seat. Most GTRs also have the fire extinguisher mounted in the RH cabin area along with the engine and body ECUs.
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BelfastBoy
524 posts
29 months
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Justices said: Right you F1 boffins, here's a question for you. The race cars that are converted for road use, can a third seat be added on the right side of driver's seat? If so, has anyone done it or is the preference to keep the car as original as possible? As you'll have realised, I have little idea as to what all the equipment is in place of the seat and footwell does so have no idea if it is essential to car functioning You'll find the answer in this discussion thread on another forum: http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic911877.htmBasically, the large panel on GTRs stays where it is because it would be extremely expensive to relocate the systems it controls, and also because to attempt a conversion would likely devalue the car by diluting its racing identity. (I understand the second point but don't necessarily agree with it. Since F1s are so rare and coveted, what about a scenario where a potential buyer wants an F1 for a collection, money no object, but the only one available at that time is a road-legal GTR conversion? If the buyer just wants an F1 and is never going to sell it, what would be 'wrong' as such with trying to make it as civilised as possible? I appreciate why many would think that sacriligeous but it might be a means to an end for someone with the resources and patience to make it possible. However, if McLaren and / or Lanzante say it can't be done, then that would be different.)
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hurstg01
1,892 posts
112 months
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Sofoklis said: The LM is the only 3 seater car with GTR looks, performance and chsracteristics. 95 and 96 GTRS theoretically should only ever be able to safely seat 2 people. The RH side of the cabin interior is full with the electronic fuse and relay panel for the entire car. There is no space available to condense and reposition all the switch gear to accomodate a 3rd seat. Most GTRs also have the fire extinguisher mounted in the RH cabin area along with the engine and body ECUs. BelfastBoy said: You'll find the answer in this discussion thread on another forum: http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic911877.htmBasically, the large panel on GTRs stays where it is because it would be extremely expensive to relocate the systems it controls, and also because to attempt a conversion would likely devalue the car by diluting its racing identity. (I understand the second point but don't necessarily agree with it. Since F1s are so rare and coveted, what about a scenario where a potential buyer wants an F1 for a collection, money no object, but the only one available at that time is a road-legal GTR conversion? If the buyer just wants an F1 and is never going to sell it, what would be 'wrong' as such with trying to make it as civilised as possible? I appreciate why many would think that sacriligeous but it might be a means to an end for someone with the resources and patience to make it possible. However, if McLaren and / or Lanzante say it can't be done, then that would be different.) Me over on Automotiveforums.com before the GTR I am referring to had its 3rd seat added said: I have just had an email from one of my contacts 'close' to an F1 who states
"No GTR owner with half a brain is going to make the conversion. First, it would be very expensive. Second, and more important, it would devalue the car. You're never going to turn a GTR into a proper F1 road car, but by performing major surgery to the wiring loom, switches, etc, you would ruin its identity as a racing car. Result - a camel.
A GTR is not a car in which to take a cruise. The gearbox is almost unbearably noisy. As you know, the LM's came with ear defenders as standard equipment. The GTR is a car for taking a quick blast. That could be for twenty minutes or, maybe, two hours, but not for half a day. With such a narrow window of applications, there is almost never a need for greater passenger capacity."
Why spend less on a GTR then chuck money at it to make it as passenger friendly as a road car (combined cost will probably cost more than buying a road car anyway) but then coming to resale value it'll be worth less What if those switches etc stayed in place and an additional cleverly-fabricated [by Lanzante] seat was added to cover them?
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BelfastBoy
524 posts
29 months
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hurstg01 said: One owner has 3 seats in his road-converted non-LM-look-a-like GTR As usual, yourself and Peleton / Erik had the most informative answers in that other forum as well! So, let's not be coy - you're saying that there is a road-legal GTR with three passenger seats, that still maintains the engine management etc control panel? Is there any legroom at all?!
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andy74b
677 posts
96 months
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BelfastBoy said: As usual, yourself and Peleton / Erik had the most informative answers in that other forum as well! So, let's not be coy - you're saying that there is a road-legal GTR with three passenger seats, that still maintains the engine management etc control panel? Is there any legroom at all?! Enough room to be able to take out my young daughters!
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Pork
7,829 posts
103 months
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andy74b said: BelfastBoy said: As usual, yourself and Peleton / Erik had the most informative answers in that other forum as well! So, let's not be coy - you're saying that there is a road-legal GTR with three passenger seats, that still maintains the engine management etc control panel? Is there any legroom at all?! Enough room to be able to take out my young daughters!  Only on PH!
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BelfastBoy
524 posts
29 months
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andy74b said: Enough room to be able to take out my young daughters! Here's a question then - I read once that Nick Mason took his kids to school in his 250GTO - could you / would you do a school run in a McLaren F1 GTR?!
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andy74b
677 posts
96 months
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BelfastBoy said: Here's a question then - I read once that Nick Mason took his kids to school in his 250GTO - could you / would you do a school run in a McLaren F1 GTR?! Have done it once!
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hurstg01
1,892 posts
112 months
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BelfastBoy said: As usual, yourself and Peleton / Erik had the most informative answers in that other forum as well! Thanks! Every time I get in before Erik, he paypals me $2.50...  andy74b said: BelfastBoy said: So, let's not be coy - you're saying that there is a road-legal GTR with three passenger seats, that still maintains the engine management etc control panel? Is there any legroom at all?! Enough room to be able to take out my young daughters! andy74b said: BelfastBoy said: Here's a question then - I read once that Nick Mason took his kids to school in his 250GTO - could you / would you do a school run in a McLaren F1 GTR?! Have done it once! 
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BelfastBoy
524 posts
29 months
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andy74b said: Have done it once! Respect to you, Andy! It's a silly fantasy of mine to be able to take my kids to school in some exotic supercar. Sadly, it would be impossible in the real world though. Obvious lack of supercar ownership aside, both the primary and the secondary schools are guarded by speedhumps so large and wide that a GTR would end up getting its nose damaged, or else beached completely!
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