Discussion
traxx said:
599GTO is a good car and I liked mine when I had it but there is no way its a 700k car when an F40 is an 850k car - its just all wrong in relative value
Anyway at that price the car has basically doubled in value over the last 12 months - this is such a bubble market
Hard to disagree the market is silly. And it's being driven by dynamics which are pretty rare - like a new global wealth market, like historically low interest rates, by a global mobile internet we've never seen before, by owners buying two or more of a model because they believe it's a great investment and by mainline dealers now jumping on the classic bandwagon. But it is what it is. Anyway at that price the car has basically doubled in value over the last 12 months - this is such a bubble market
And at the heart of the (RHD) 599 GTO price sits a truly great car and probably only around 60 RHD cars in existence. True, the car flat-lined for ages but this is what a well known indie dealer told me it would do when it first came out.
The market has naturally become much more aggressive as people want to jump in. A RHD 458 SA is up for around 575K GBP currently when the loaded list price is 270K GBP. And already people are bouncing off the walls for the upcoming LE F12 "VS".
As for the F40, there are quite a few up for sale and as you know they come in many different levels of condition, spec and history. I think 850K GBP is pushing it for a good example. That's very close to mint F50 territory and that car's time is very special, and very LE.
Yes it's a bubble but IMO feels very different from previous local market moments of insanity. I'm not saying it isn't any less dangerous to those exposed but the scale this time (size, speed of information transfer and geography) is very diffferent from bubbles that have gone before.
Edited by Camlet on Monday 6th July 07:29
Camlet said:
...probably only around 60 RHD cars in existence...
Have to correct this although I don't think it alters your essential point. Don't forget RHD is not only the UK. I believe there were 70 something UK RHD cars delivered. My list is not quite complete but I was told "about 80" some time back and I know of more than 70. Add in Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand and South Africa and I think you're probably talking about 100 or so RHD cars.Jonathan
jtremlett said:
Camlet said:
...probably only around 60 RHD cars in existence...
Have to correct this although I don't think it alters your essential point. Don't forget RHD is not only the UK. I believe there were 70 something UK RHD cars delivered. My list is not quite complete but I was told "about 80" some time back and I know of more than 70. Add in Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand and South Africa and I think you're probably talking about 100 or so RHD cars.Jonathan
Drove mine today, it's such a amazing car. Undervalued still IMHO. Much more fxx than GTB....Get one while you can !
Can't upload pics for some reason - pictures here - https://instagram.com/woppum/
Can't upload pics for some reason - pictures here - https://instagram.com/woppum/
woppum said:
Drove mine today, it's such a amazing car. Undervalued still IMHO. Much more fxx than GTB....Get one while you can !
Can't upload pics for some reason - pictures here - https://instagram.com/woppum/
Love the colour of that Speciale - do you know what it is? And yes the GTO is a great car!!!! Just come back from Italy and Factory where I drove mine around for a couple of weeks!Can't upload pics for some reason - pictures here - https://instagram.com/woppum/
woppum said:
Drove mine today, it's such a amazing car. Undervalued still IMHO. Much more fxx than GTB....Get one while you can !
Can't upload pics for some reason - pictures here - https://instagram.com/woppum/
Very nice! Was that formerly AndrewD's car?Can't upload pics for some reason - pictures here - https://instagram.com/woppum/
woppum said:
FalconWood said:
Love the colour of that Speciale - do you know what it is? And yes the GTO is a great car!!!! Just come back from Italy and Factory where I drove mine around for a couple of weeks!
Do I know the colour of my Speciale ? I would hope so ! it's fiorano 
Beautiful car, but sorry £700k is too much on a GTO, car only worth what someone willing to spend.
An ex tamara eccleston 599 gto, sold for just under £350k with I think 750/850 miles on the clock with full cream seats rather than alcantara in RHD. This was acquired by a SuperCar Driver member looking to invest later last year. Im sorry but the price cannot have doubled in that time for over quadruple the mileage. The car was Grigio Silverstone if anyone was wondering.
How much higher are the limited series Ferrari bubble going to go? :/ will it pop or keep climbing?
An ex tamara eccleston 599 gto, sold for just under £350k with I think 750/850 miles on the clock with full cream seats rather than alcantara in RHD. This was acquired by a SuperCar Driver member looking to invest later last year. Im sorry but the price cannot have doubled in that time for over quadruple the mileage. The car was Grigio Silverstone if anyone was wondering.
How much higher are the limited series Ferrari bubble going to go? :/ will it pop or keep climbing?
I had a bit of a random encounter with Jay Kay today in his GTO on the M40, I saw it coming up in the middle lane and wound down my window to hear the noise, he must have seen me do it as he pulled along side and then booted it off into the distance, I then caught back up with him after a few miles and gave him the thumbs up and then took the slip road, he also turned off and then wound down the window at the junction and had a quick car chat! Top bloke!
We've got our air show and car event at the RAF base I'm based at on Monday and I stupidly didn't think to throw out the offer for him to bring a car along and look at some proper helicopters!
We've got our air show and car event at the RAF base I'm based at on Monday and I stupidly didn't think to throw out the offer for him to bring a car along and look at some proper helicopters!
Edited by ditchvisitor on Saturday 18th July 22:01
mattf93 said:
Beautiful car, but sorry £700k is too much on a GTO, car only worth what someone willing to spend.
...
How much higher are the limited series Ferrari bubble going to go? :/ will it pop or keep climbing?
As a casual observer I'd agree with you, but what did you think when you drove the GTO; or haven't you? The looks, the V12 sound, the driver involvement and the overall experience is quite mesmerising. Cold tyres and wheel spinning at stupid speeds, it's not something to push hard if you don't know how to drive, are half asleep or the road is wet - get a 458 to cover those. Peak horsepower is in the upper echelons of the rev range so unless you want to be sideways you need to anticipate it being on-cam....
How much higher are the limited series Ferrari bubble going to go? :/ will it pop or keep climbing?
A lot of the 599 GTOs are now with the second gen' of owners but the original owners paid fewer pounds than they sold them for. However, they did have to wait 5+ years for that. Even so, the GTO has never been cheap.
No one is denying the market is hot but really at this stage of the game it depends on your level of paranoia, negativity, soberness or experience. Of course, it may be about owning something that you want to keep come-what-may but appreciate that is a boring for the market crashers.
Anyway, can't say too much incase I get accused of talking up prices on a car fan site. So I'll leave with this - the 599 GTO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ld_K-7-4Y
JamieBeeston said:
You're historically spot on LFB, however I think the fear here is that now Ferrari have realised there is an ever increasing market for these special run variants, they may well churn more out in this world of bottom line £$€ worship (remember, the F40 was a limited edition one off... unti it wasnt)
They'll always do this. And the investment market will always be queuing up to buy the cars. And the secondary market will always be looking to invest in them. Look at the scramble to buy manual 430s. Even Dickie Meaden has thrown his hat in that particular ring. By the way, Porsche announced they'd only build 500 2.7 RS. They eventually built circa 1580. It ain't just Ferrari that plays that game...
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