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MartinTorque
373 posts
65 months
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Being an independent dealer but having been involved in main dealers and manufacturers for years my view is the following:
The level of specialist equipment (which is updated as the models update) from the manufacturer to the main dealer is expensive and necessary. The diagnostic computer for a Lambo for example is 70k Euros. In addition to being trained on the ground/college the main dealer will send its technicians on manufacturer training on an on going basis (i.e. every time there is an update or every time there is a recurring fault throughout the network) which means they stay up to the minute. All these costs mean that main dealers contrary to most popular belief don't make fortunes out of the service dept.
The negatives to a main dealer are that they also have to spend a fortune on 'brand standards' that dont add any value like certain colour tiles, a certain coffee machine etc (initial set up pack for a Lambo service agent is around £150k). Again this has be be recovered through the overall hourly rate. The second negative is that in most cases you will be dealing with an employee of a group as your service contact, who in some cases will have all the passion in the world but more often than not its just a job. In an indy you will normally have involvement from the owner and therefore its his name/reputation on the line and is therefore likely to be more responsive/caring.
What I tend to do is use main dealers for the late cars as I know that they can deal with any recalls, updates, ask advice of the manufacturer in diagnostic issues (bearing in mind the manufacturer will have the feedback of every dealer in the world available) and, like it or not people/traders will always pay more for a full main dealer service history (!!) but if it is a non current model i.e. 2005 Gallardo I will be happy to use an indy of which there are many excellent ones.
Long winded I know! Thanks for reading!!
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UH-Matt
1,920 posts
110 months
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... or just create a thread and ponder it for a few months. Decisions eh?
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UH-Matt
1,920 posts
110 months
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70proof said: just spoke to mike pullen at carrera sport.... 500+VAT all in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats a bit of an eye opener....  ... do i go for the indie or main dealer i think to myself... ... or just create a thread and ponder it for a few months. Decisions eh?
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70proof
Original Poster
3,231 posts
25 months
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UH-Matt said: ... or just create a thread and ponder it for a few months. Decisions eh? nah, the whole go indie or main dealer thread has been done before and recently.... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...i had decided to go main dealer, just wanted to know the best for overall experience...
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AJSG
302 posts
57 months
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Stryke said: I would say avoid HR Owen. They told me one of my QP's cams was bent...and they are so good they managed to do this without opening the cam cover. Amazingly it fixed itself by the next visit...so not only are they crooks but they are also too stupid to check their own previous records. On another visit I had 3 failed ball joints which were so severe my car was not allowed to be released, only after I actually called the police they released the car. Again...this magically fixed itself by the next visit. This is the beauty of our cars, they are all made of this magic element unobtanium which has the capacity to fix itself....a little like my 612's brake calipers which that Northampton main dealeer tried to tell me were leaking by spraying Copper grease under the caliper. Lovely people, I wish them all the best....really.
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AJSG
302 posts
57 months
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MartinTorque said: In addition to being trained on the ground/college the main dealer will send its technicians on manufacturer training on an on going basis Apparently the "technician" who sprayed copper grease on my calipers and tried to pass it off as leaking brake fluid was a very higly awarded and experienced mechanic (his proper profession).
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AndrewD
4,390 posts
154 months
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AJSG said: They told me one of my QP's cams was bent...and they are so good they managed to do this without opening the cam cover. Amazingly it fixed itself by the next visit...so not only are they crooks but they are also too stupid to check their own previous records.
On another visit I had 3 failed ball joints which were so severe my car was not allowed to be released, only after I actually called the police they released the car. Again...this magically fixed itself by the next visit.
This is the beauty of our cars, they are all made of this magic element unobtanium which has the capacity to fix itself....a little like my 612's brake calipers which that Northampton main dealeer tried to tell me were leaking by spraying Copper grease under the caliper.
Lovely people, I wish them all the best....really. Doesn't sound very nice. But then you repeat "next visit" so you went back for more, or it only seems bad now?
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AJSG
302 posts
57 months
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AndrewD said: But then you repeat "next visit" so you went back for more, or it only seems bad now? Good point, needs explaining...had the tail end of the 3 year servicing deal. After 12 years of super GT ownership I must say that I find Main Dealers the last true bastion of the traditional old school crook...even Anglia Windows has straightened its game... The problem is that people simply don't care any more, all our parents (both more often than not) knew how to change oil and filters or at the very least the plugs. Modern cars are simply not that fragile, they cannot possibly need a ball joint replacing every 3000miles...etc ad nauseam. However, if people do not complain these bottom feeders continue to run unchecked. Just for fun, a person just bought a new Merc in Milan. On his way home he bumped his side mirror into another car...when he got out to pop the glass back in (nothing broken) he noticed that behind the mirror somebody had taped a spare key...ready for the "technician" to steal the car a few days later.
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Camlet
316 posts
19 months
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MartinTorque said: Being an independent dealer but having been involved in main dealers and manufacturers for years my view is the following:
The level of specialist equipment (which is updated as the models update) from the manufacturer to the main dealer is expensive and necessary. The diagnostic computer for a Lambo for example is 70k Euros. In addition to being trained on the ground/college the main dealer will send its technicians on manufacturer training on an on going basis (i.e. every time there is an update or every time there is a recurring fault throughout the network) which means they stay up to the minute. All these costs mean that main dealers contrary to most popular belief don't make fortunes out of the service dept.
The negatives to a main dealer are that they also have to spend a fortune on 'brand standards' that dont add any value like certain colour tiles, a certain coffee machine etc (initial set up pack for a Lambo service agent is around £150k). Again this has be be recovered through the overall hourly rate. The second negative is that in most cases you will be dealing with an employee of a group as your service contact, who in some cases will have all the passion in the world but more often than not its just a job. In an indy you will normally have involvement from the owner and therefore its his name/reputation on the line and is therefore likely to be more responsive/caring.
What I tend to do is use main dealers for the late cars as I know that they can deal with any recalls, updates, ask advice of the manufacturer in diagnostic issues (bearing in mind the manufacturer will have the feedback of every dealer in the world available) and, like it or not people/traders will always pay more for a full main dealer service history (!!) but if it is a non current model i.e. 2005 Gallardo I will be happy to use an indy of which there are many excellent ones.
Long winded I know! Thanks for reading!! Useful and true. I use a very large Ferrari main dealer. Nice people. But they put crap tanks into my F40. Car stunk of fuel. Not ideal. Went to DK who sorted the problem quickly and all is wonderful with the world. Late cars will stay with the main dealer but F40 most definitely will not.
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groak
3,254 posts
49 months
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The most depressing bit is when the expert who resolves the problem tells you in detail what the main dealer's techs/mechanics got wrong.
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AJSG
302 posts
57 months
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groak said: The most depressing bit is when the expert who resolves the problem tells you in detail what the main dealer's techs/mechanics got wrong. This is the issue though, I think that most people could have spotted the issues I have had with main dealers. Granted some are a little specialised which would require a little more than a passing interest in car mechanics. But if somebody tells you that on your 3yr old 200mph car 3 out of your 4 brake calipers are leaking...your reaction should be the same...especially when presented with a 12k bill. The least you could do it take elsewhere for a second opinion. Same with a bent camshaft on a 2yr old QP and an 8k bill...etc etc.
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Camlet
316 posts
19 months
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groak said: The most depressing bit is when the expert who resolves the problem tells you in detail what the main dealer's techs/mechanics got wrong. Absolutely. Especially when your life is put at risk. If you saw the tanks that were originally put in and the ATL tanks that DK put in, it's bloody shocking. And for 8 months I was being told "F40s smell of fuel, it's normal". Like I was mad. I sincerely believe the main dealer hadn't a clue. Funny, when I went several times to Ferrari itself to ask if F40s suffer from a strong fuel smell, they wouldn't comment and kept pushing me to the main dealer even though my communication was clear. I appreciate Ferrari may have been concerned about assumed liability but their silence was also depressing.
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15HN
367 posts
97 months
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Camlet said: Absolutely. Especially when your life is put at risk. If you saw the tanks that were originally put in and the ATL tanks that DK put in, it's bloody shocking. And for 8 months I was being told "F40s smell of fuel, it's normal". Like I was mad. I sincerely believe the main dealer hadn't a clue. Funny, when I went several times to Ferrari itself to ask if F40s suffer from a strong fuel smell, they wouldn't comment and kept pushing me to the main dealer even though my communication was clear. I appreciate Ferrari may have been concerned about assumed liability but their silence was also depressing. What did the main dealer do after you had the tanks replaced? Surely that proved the tanks were defective?
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Camlet
316 posts
19 months
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15HN said: Camlet said: Absolutely. Especially when your life is put at risk. If you saw the tanks that were originally put in and the ATL tanks that DK put in, it's bloody shocking. And for 8 months I was being told "F40s smell of fuel, it's normal". Like I was mad. I sincerely believe the main dealer hadn't a clue. Funny, when I went several times to Ferrari itself to ask if F40s suffer from a strong fuel smell, they wouldn't comment and kept pushing me to the main dealer even though my communication was clear. I appreciate Ferrari may have been concerned about assumed liability but their silence was also depressing. What did the main dealer do after you had the tanks replaced? Surely that proved the tanks were defective? They offered to replace the tanks for free but using the same manufacturer who first supplied them. I didn't want anything to do with the tank maker once I had seen their tanks alongside their US competitor. The difference in quality was night and day. So declined FOC main dealer offer and had DK replace the tanks with the US version. Then asked the main dealer to reimburse me for the US tanks. Fortunately they agreed.
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15HN
367 posts
97 months
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Camlet said: They offered to replace the tanks for free but using the same manufacturer who first supplied them. I didn't want anything to do with the tank maker once I had seen their tanks alongside their US competitor. The difference in quality was night and day. So declined FOC main dealer offer and had DK replace the tanks with the US version. Then asked the main dealer to reimburse me for the US tanks. Fortunately they agreed. Sounds like a very fair and positive outcome?
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P101
825 posts
28 months
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You would have to either have more money than sense, or be a mug to trust a main dealer. They rely on the fact that most of their clients are extremely wealthy and won't question or don't have the time to question the work that has been done to their cars. And usually these customers won't have the cars long enough to suffer the cosiquences of the bad service that has occured to their cars. Nice big earner for them.
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andrew
5,764 posts
62 months
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70proof said: Who is the best main dealer for a four year service... Not in terms of price but for overall experience.. Do any give courtesy cars? 70proof said: andrew said: they were more, several hundred more.....  just spoke to mike pullen at carrera sport.... 500+VAT all in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats a bit of an eye opener.... ... do i go for the indie or main dealer i think to myself... you asked who was the "Best main dealer", then went on to specifically say "Not in terms of price..." 
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70proof
Original Poster
3,231 posts
25 months
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andrew said: you asked who was the "Best main dealer", then went on to specifically say "Not in terms of price..." For 700 more they were not getting any pole dancers in!
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andrew
5,764 posts
62 months
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70proof said: andrew said: you asked who was the "Best main dealer", then went on to specifically say "Not in terms of price..." For 700 more they were not getting any pole dancers in! you need to ask nicely 
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70proof
Original Poster
3,231 posts
25 months
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andrew said: you need to ask nicely i could also call myself andrew.... and then get the dancers, a cc and local motel room... 
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