So I wandered into Meridien Modena yesterday....
Discussion
LukeyLikey said:
d8ean said:
certainly was lucky selling my TDF one, plenty of time wasters out there who try to nick a bargain but if the car is genuine and tip top condition i think you will get what you want for it (realistically). Same old story, if someone needs to get rid then they will take a bath - if not sit back and wait for the right buyer
This makes a whole lot of sense to me. Any market is always about demand and supply. RHD cars in the UK are becoming fewer due to cars travelling overseas. The RHD markets with wealth or strong currencies such as Singapore and Australia have been mopping up our stock for a while now.Since there is clearly UK and overseas demand for cars like the CS, the market is strong. However, it is still a very small market, which means that in order to realise a certain price you may need to wait. If you need cash quickly you will most likely pay for the privilege. I think it is probably a good point to note if you are thinking about getting into a CS with at least part of your thinking being that it will hold its price.
jackal said:
What proof do you have that any of the cars had 'stories to tell' ? Sorry but this is just a wishful inference because they were not >90k. Nothing personal meant to your good self but I really dislike this sort of rumour, it's all part of parcel of the whole mystique crap that surrounds the marque. A stradale is a very difficult to sell right now, make no mistake. I can recall at least 3 cars which were withdrawn because they just never sold. A friend of mine sold his Strad just 3 weeks ago for £75,000 after over a year and after dropping it by 10k or so and that was through a dealer who offered the usual finance/PDI/part ex etc.. It was as good an example as any that I have seen, better in fact condition wise than some I have seen at 90k+ with plenty of recent work under its belt. It was on pistonheads for many months.
Furthermore, I can recount almost 8 or 9 UK RHD cars that have sold in the last 2-3 years all less than 85k. Apart from one TDF one, not one to my knowledge was accident repaired, excessively worn in the clutch or ceramics department, mileage fiddled or anything else suspicious. Don't get me wrong, there is nowt wrong with walking into a ferrari dealer and paying top dollar for an easy life, a ferrari warranty and a slick official customer service; that's fine if you wish to choose that route and it has many upsides. But don't go kidding yourself that all other cars outside of this are or were old dogs. I will concede that the 90k plus cars also often appear to be low miles but that has blurred recently as well and you are finding that cars in the late teens/low 20's miles are now lumped together with cars in the low teens/high singles. Look at the furlonger car at 21k miles and 95k ! Thats only 4k miles less than my mates example but up for £20,000 more. That's £5 a mile
Just out of curiosity which one was it your friend ended up selling for £75k (£10k less than asking)? I've been watching the market keenly for months and didn't spot one at £85k. The Furlonger car IMHO is priced wrong. They've been offered £85k but won't take less than asking and are trying to sell on condition (which they say is superb) rather than mileage which makes sense to a lot of us but the problem always is not really what we think about the mileage but the concern over resale. Some people say people who worry about this "can't afford the car" (i.e. some depreciation), but I tend to think its a consideration for anyone who's sensible and doesn't have a bottomless put of cash.Furthermore, I can recount almost 8 or 9 UK RHD cars that have sold in the last 2-3 years all less than 85k. Apart from one TDF one, not one to my knowledge was accident repaired, excessively worn in the clutch or ceramics department, mileage fiddled or anything else suspicious. Don't get me wrong, there is nowt wrong with walking into a ferrari dealer and paying top dollar for an easy life, a ferrari warranty and a slick official customer service; that's fine if you wish to choose that route and it has many upsides. But don't go kidding yourself that all other cars outside of this are or were old dogs. I will concede that the 90k plus cars also often appear to be low miles but that has blurred recently as well and you are finding that cars in the late teens/low 20's miles are now lumped together with cars in the low teens/high singles. Look at the furlonger car at 21k miles and 95k ! Thats only 4k miles less than my mates example but up for £20,000 more. That's £5 a mile
jackal said:
LukeyLikey said:
d8ean said:
certainly was lucky selling my TDF one, plenty of time wasters out there who try to nick a bargain but if the car is genuine and tip top condition i think you will get what you want for it (realistically). Same old story, if someone needs to get rid then they will take a bath - if not sit back and wait for the right buyer
This makes a whole lot of sense to me. Any market is always about demand and supply. RHD cars in the UK are becoming fewer due to cars travelling overseas. The RHD markets with wealth or strong currencies such as Singapore and Australia have been mopping up our stock for a while now.Since there is clearly UK and overseas demand for cars like the CS, the market is strong. However, it is still a very small market, which means that in order to realise a certain price you may need to wait. If you need cash quickly you will most likely pay for the privilege. I think it is probably a good point to note if you are thinking about getting into a CS with at least part of your thinking being that it will hold its price.[/
No one needs to convince themselves of anything here. Buy your cars, enjoy them, rag them and expect for it to cost lots and so it should for a car as special as the CS. Buy privately and cheaply or buy top dollar, either way is an option just make sure your eyes are open. The market is not strong. There are two CS markets in the UK, one carefully controlled by about 5 or so ferrari dealers and then there's the other market which is a bit more realistic amd more in line with the ROW, made of up folk like Cortese, McGurk, Foskers etc.. and then private sellers. Neither market is strong. Both markets are slow. And both markets are comprised of decent examples which are no different from one another. Just because a car doesn't come out of Maranellos with a 200 quid mop job on it, a power cube warranty and a mochachino from the resident Gaggia machine doesn't mean it will spontaneously combust into a thousand pieces of engine block when you first turn the key. My friend wasn't in a rush. He waited for over a year and got Foskers to reduce the price by 15k in that time in order for it to sell. A SOR fee was of course levied so he lost at least £15,000 for the pleasure of 5000 miles or so. I'm not trying to denigrate the car, or any dealers in particular, or make anyone feel bad. I'm just trying to dispel the mythology and strip away the rose tints a little. Don't believe the gloss, the logos and the specular highlights glinting off the 250 SWB in the corner. You are not buying a Renoir, you are buying a highly specialised and old weekend toy car with a very very narrow interest base and one which most petrolheads with the means wouldn't bat an eyelid at (they would go for a new V10 R8 instead). The market isn't strong, a car with more than 20k miles or lower than £90,000 isn't 'CAT D' and however you buy, you will lose lots of money at the present time.
I'm currently looking at a nice CS in Italy with 12k miles on it on sale for the equivalent of 60k gbp...having the car checked at the moment, sounds like a bargain to me if everything is ok? Uk registration will cost no more then 2-3k gbp.
And, btw, it is black....sadly no racing livery tho.
And, btw, it is black....sadly no racing livery tho.
sone said:
Not sure how the Audi came into the equation. There's no more mythology or less come to think of it than any other classic Ferrari. I've had lots of iconic cars and the CS is the first one I feel that's lived up to the hype. I also think your wrong about the following of the CS, I amazed at the amount of people who aren't even petrol heads that know what the CS is.
Steve you are defending the car and there's no need to. I am not referring to the car. I am a fan of the car.The mythology is some of the stuff being said on this thread not any mythology about the car per se, i.e. like the idea that 'cheap' cars not at ferrari dealerships being assumed to be dogs. Or a car with 25k miles (hardly a big mileage !) being 20k inferior and being 'one to avoid'.
As for the Audi comment, it was an colourful way of expressing that the CS sells in very very few numbers. No one ws supposed to honetly take the word 'audi' too literally. I am not saying that people don't know what a CS is or dont appreciate it and I am not saying it doesn't live up to the hype. Once again, I am not denigrating the car, just stating in support of my ideas that for every ONE sale of a CS there are hunderds of thousands of sales of 911 turbos, 911 carreras, Nissan GTr's, Audi R8s, BMW M3's etc etc ad infinitum. Again, this doesn't make it a bad car, I am not denigrating the car, just stating that the market is by definition a glacial one even before you factor in the current economic climate (porsche can't even sell brand new 991s !) and the cheaper cost of cars in other markets outside of the UK.
Edited by jackal on Wednesday 19th September 13:30
batmanbegins said:
Just out of curiosity which one was it your friend ended up selling for £75k (£10k less than asking)?
The foskers car which is still up there. It started at 89, then went to 85 last year and then to 79 a month ago or so but the final sale price was some way below that. Like I said, Ive been in the car and at various meets with it and cosmetically it was as good as any other ive seen, 95k or otherwise.
jackal said:
The foskers car which is still up there. It started at 89, then went to 85 last year and then to 79 a month ago or so but the final sale price was some way below that. Like I said, Ive been in the car and at various meets with it and cosmetically it was as good as any other ive seen, 95k or otherwise.
any ideas on the clutch % wear and brake %?Maxige said:
I'm currently looking at a nice CS in Italy with 12k miles on it on sale for the equivalent of 60k gbp...having the car checked at the moment, sounds like a bargain to me if everything is ok? Uk registration will cost no more then 2-3k gbp.
And, btw, it is black....sadly no racing livery tho.
Ahahah nice car. Sadly bought mine a couple weeks before, would have loved a black/TdF rather than red...but i bought on condition rather than color.And, btw, it is black....sadly no racing livery tho.
Racing livery: stripe can be done for something like 200GBP and leather changed for alcantara as well using a good trimmer here in the UK. I reckon a couple grands no more.
Edited by 911Thrasher on Wednesday 19th September 17:12
baz1985 said:
I don't possess the means for any of these..........but anyway...........
I think I recall a TDF 360CS being up for sale @£70k <15k miles in Q4 2009. Now they seem closer to £100k, I'd rather find the extra circa £30k and get a F430 Scud....that's purely subjective on aesthetics.
There was a TDF car for sale in Cambridgeshire for ages (over a year)it was up for £79k to start with, from memory it went to America I think and ended up getting a colour change!!! I might be wrong..I think I recall a TDF 360CS being up for sale @£70k <15k miles in Q4 2009. Now they seem closer to £100k, I'd rather find the extra circa £30k and get a F430 Scud....that's purely subjective on aesthetics.
Ohh and IMHO the CS looks better than a Scud
911Thrasher said:
Ahahah nice car. Sadly bought mine a couple weeks before, would have loved a black/TdF rather than red...but i bought on condition rather than color.
How much did the conversion costed to you?
I personally bought and imported 3 cars from Italy this year, but other then having the front lights adjusted I did all by myself and ended up paying nothing at all (just the cost of MOT, headlights adjustment, DVLA fee and taxdisc)...but I know that Ferrari is always quite special in dealing with so I expect to pay considerably more to get everything done?
neil-f said:
There was a TDF car for sale in Cambridgeshire for ages (over a year)it was up for £79k to start with, from memory it went to America I think and ended up getting a colour change!!! I might be wrong..
Ohh and IMHO the CS looks better than a Scud
think that one wasn't in the best of condition - been talked about on here to death.Ohh and IMHO the CS looks better than a Scud
Anyone know anything about this example?
http://www.autoscout24.it/Details.aspx?id=22057841...
12500 miles for around £67k after currency conversion. With import costs being £2-3k maybe you have a car with harnesses, radio and in nero with reasonable mileage for less than £70k!!
How does one go about checking out a car in Italy though? There must be more to it than simply convincing a good dealer to fly out there with an SD2 machine to inspect it..?
Costs:
- "Import Costs" (i.e. enjoying driving it over) £500 (petrol)
- Speedo Conversion (£100?)
- CoC (£700?)
- MOT (£40)
- TOTAL £1350 (anything I've missed?)
http://www.autoscout24.it/Details.aspx?id=22057841...
12500 miles for around £67k after currency conversion. With import costs being £2-3k maybe you have a car with harnesses, radio and in nero with reasonable mileage for less than £70k!!
How does one go about checking out a car in Italy though? There must be more to it than simply convincing a good dealer to fly out there with an SD2 machine to inspect it..?
Costs:
- "Import Costs" (i.e. enjoying driving it over) £500 (petrol)
- Speedo Conversion (£100?)
- CoC (£700?)
- MOT (£40)
- TOTAL £1350 (anything I've missed?)
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