Cheap Zonda?

[TurboTerrific9]

andy74b said:

Streetrod said:

No mate, that is a Roadster, this is the one. Sorry Traxx, I have just checked my notes, he was looking for £1.1 million not £1.3M as I stated earlier





I had a very long conversation with Bob about the validity of putting this car back on the road. He assured me that the damage could be repaired even thought it had been burned badly when an oil leak onto the exhaust caused the fire. Also he told me the car would be sold with a new VIN if the customer requested it. When I questioned in a round about way if that was strictly honest he basically said that no one would be able to tell after the work had been done that the car had had the damage and it would come with a new warranty. Apparently Pagani had assured him the fixed car would be perfect.

Now at the time of our conversation which was in December last year, Pagani had a Cinque spec engine in a crate ready to go in. Bob told me that they had had interest from the Far East but also said that if a customer could not be found he would rebuild the car for himself.

Now I have seen a large number of pictures of this car and the damage that was caused, it did not look good, but the Tub seemed OK ish, the fire manly wreaked the rear of the car. The front clam was damaged but the font suspension seemed intact so no real problem there.

As of earlier this year Bob told me the car was back at the factory, but I have not heard of it since

Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:07

Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:11

Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:13

It's very difficult to rebuilt a burnt car but I am sure that anything that went back to Pagani would come out as new knowing what Mr H is like. Do wonder how this car is still around though as when one of my cars was burnt I had to write it off despite my protest, gutted as it could have been repaired.

Wonder how much they want for the crated engine as mine is lacking in that department!

Andy's right, H would not let anything leave the factory that might have an issue which also means the car advertised at auction is probably cheap, although you'd need to bear in mind that the next buyer would need to as balanced/understanding.

I'd heard that a new Zonda engine is circa 300k which was why they weren't out in the whyra.

[andy74b]

TurboTerrific9 said:

Andy's right, H would not let anything leave the factory that might have an issue which also means the car advertised at auction is probably cheap, although you'd need to bear in mind that the next buyer would need to as balanced/understanding.

I'd heard that a new Zonda engine is circa 300k which was why they weren't out in the whyra.

Ok, off that idea of the new engine! How the f*** can an engine cost 300k?? I'm building a 700bhp f40 one for less than 50k....

[RevHappy]

andy74b said:

Ok, off that idea of the new engine! How the f*** can an engine cost 300k?? I'm building a 700bhp f40 one for less than 50k....

Three little letters A M G.

[andy74b]

RevHappy said:

Three little letters A M G.

Yes but you can buy a sls for 100k so an engine isn't 300k.

Anyway, all irrelevant as not going to upgrade as I have other cars that will outperform it whatever I do.

[z4chris99]

is the engine not a version of the engine in the sl73... ????

which wernt 300k,

[BelfastBoy]

BelfastBoy said:

Is that this one?

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...

I think Forstners recently dropped the price on this one by a lot - even in LHD it looks amazingly desirable to me!

Streetrod, thanks for the clarification on the car I linked to. On the topic of this car (the 'Final Edition' roadster), what's wrong with it if it's not selling?! Looks like pretty much a perfect spec for a decent-ish price. Supervettura are wanting £500k more for something that seems very similar and with a much greater mileage:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2697936.htm

Edited by BelfastBoy on Tuesday 2nd October 22:14

[traxx]

As we are talking about Zondas in general - whats happened to that Blue one that was up for sale that was unregistered but was many years old and had 2,000+ miles on it?

iirc it had come back from Malaysia

[traxx]

btw if you want an even bigger rebuild project,

this is what was left of the yellow one that crashed in Italy a few years back - iirc no one was actually that badly hurt


IMG_3016 by Trax5, on Flickr


IMG_3014 by Trax5, on Flickr

Edited by traxx on Tuesday 2nd October 22:22

[YoungRestorer]

traxx said:

btw if you want an even bigger rebuild project,

this is what was left of the yellow one that crashed in Italy a few years back - iirc no one was actually that badly hurt


IMG_3016 by Trax5, on Flickr


IMG_3014 by Trax5, on Flickr

Edited by traxx on Tuesday 2nd October 22:22

Good grief! That's quite a job, any idea what the factory plan to do with it?

[RevHappy]

andy74b said:

RevHappy said:

Three little letters A M G.

Yes but you can buy a sls for 100k so an engine isn't 300k.

Anyway, all irrelevant as not going to upgrade as I have other cars that will outperform it whatever I do.

I think it was more down to the fact they didn't want to make them as it stopped the mass production stuff and was old tech, so they just cranked up the numbers to put him off. Hence the new turbo engines used in the lastest car.

[Streetrod]

RevHappy said:

andy74b said:

RevHappy said:

Three little letters A M G.

Yes but you can buy a sls for 100k so an engine isn't 300k.

Anyway, all irrelevant as not going to upgrade as I have other cars that will outperform it whatever I do.

I think it was more down to the fact they didn't want to make them as it stopped the mass production stuff and was old tech, so they just cranked up the numbers to put him off. Hence the new turbo engines used in the lastest car.

I have told this story before but it is worth repeating here.

When Pagani started work on the Hurayra he went to AMG for the new engine hoping again to secure a new NA V12. After AMG looked at his needs they concluded that they could not produce a NA V12 that could meet the up and coming emissions standards worldwide and last for the ten year lifespan of the new car. They therefore proposed a twin turbo V8 which Pagani rejected as he rightly concluded that his customers would only accept a V12. So AMG went back to the drawing board and came up with the low pressure twin turbo V12 Pagani now has.

Also as the old V12 was now only being used by Pagani it was proving very expensive to build and no longer fitted on their production line. Each engine having now to be hand cast and built. That is why they are so expensive. If Pagani wants new ones he has to order a minimum number which is a huge upfront cost to him

[Streetrod]

andy74b said:

TurboTerrific9 said:

Andy's right, H would not let anything leave the factory that might have an issue which also means the car advertised at auction is probably cheap, although you'd need to bear in mind that the next buyer would need to as balanced/understanding.

I'd heard that a new Zonda engine is circa 300k which was why they weren't out in the whyra.

Ok, off that idea of the new engine! How the f*** can an engine cost 300k?? I'm building a 700bhp f40 one for less than 50k....

Andy it’s a lot cheaper and easier to get 700hp out of a twin turbo F40 engine than it is to get it out of a NA V12, especially one that is designed to do well over 100k miles with little more than a set of plugs and an oil change.

I doubt the AMG V12 would cost £300K, but as it has to be hand cast and built off the production line it’s certainly not going to be cheap. Also AMG don’t want to build them any more so they are not going to make it easy to get one

[Jaykaybi]

Streetrod said:

RevHappy said:

andy74b said:

RevHappy said:

Three little letters A M G.

Yes but you can buy a sls for 100k so an engine isn't 300k.

Anyway, all irrelevant as not going to upgrade as I have other cars that will outperform it whatever I do.

I think it was more down to the fact they didn't want to make them as it stopped the mass production stuff and was old tech, so they just cranked up the numbers to put him off. Hence the new turbo engines used in the lastest car.

I have told this story before but it is worth repeating here.

When Pagani started work on the Hurayra he went to AMG for the new engine hoping again to secure a new NA V12. After AMG looked at his needs they concluded that they could not produce a NA V12 that could meet the up and coming emissions standards worldwide and last for the ten year lifespan of the new car. They therefore proposed a twin turbo V8 which Pagani rejected as he rightly concluded that his customers would only accept a V12. So AMG went back to the drawing board and came up with the low pressure twin turbo V12 Pagani now has...

'Back to the drawing board' may be misleading; I was told the Huayra basically uses the 6.0 TT V12 engine from the SL65 AMG, albeit with some tweaks.

[Jaykaybi]

traxx said:

btw if you want an even bigger rebuild project,

this is what was left of the yellow one that crashed in Italy a few years back - iirc no one was actually that badly hurt


IMG_3016 by Trax5, on Flickr


IMG_3014 by Trax5, on Flickr

I'm told the rebuild is approaching completion. You're correct, by the way, in that driver and passenger both walked away essentially unharmed. We had dinner the following evening, where the driver discussed the incident and showed us the pics. Lucky, lucky man.

[NRS]

Streetrod said:

The thing is that 25 numbered Zonda F coupes were built, their build number being indicated on the owner’s plate between the seats. It therefore is not right to advertise this car as an F. If my information is correct it still holds its original VIN number, but I don’t have a photo of it like I have of many others.

Seeing as there are a few extra F coupes over the 25 that had different names but were the same, then it's probably not the worst thing to say. To be honest there are very few of the S cars that are original.

traxx said:

As we are talking about Zondas in general - whats happened to that Blue one that was up for sale that was unregistered but was many years old and had 2,000+ miles on it?

iirc it had come back from Malaysia

It was sold to someone in Hong Kong. It was from Malaysia, although there are rumours it could have been a Sultan of Brunei car, but that's probably not the case.

[Streetrod]

NRS said:

Streetrod said:

The thing is that 25 numbered Zonda F coupes were built, their build number being indicated on the owner’s plate between the seats. It therefore is not right to advertise this car as an F. If my information is correct it still holds its original VIN number, but I don’t have a photo of it like I have of many others.

Seeing as there are a few extra F coupes over the 25 that had different names but were the same, then it's probably not the worst thing to say. To be honest there are very few of the S cars that are original.

traxx said:

As we are talking about Zondas in general - whats happened to that Blue one that was up for sale that was unregistered but was many years old and had 2,000+ miles on it?

iirc it had come back from Malaysia

It was sold to someone in Hong Kong. It was from Malaysia, although there are rumours it could have been a Sultan of Brunei car, but that's probably not the case.

The cars that were built over and above the original 25 were different as they had Carbo Titanium tubs; this is how you distinguish them. A few F's became specials after being rebuilt after crashes, but the differences were manly cosmetic and the cars retained the original carbon chassis and chassis numbers.

The Blue car you speak about came from a Malaysian collector and as stated was never road registered. It was for sale with Bob Forstner for good while but has now moved, I'm not sure where too

[NRS]

I believe it was the Malaysian prime minister's son, but not 100%. He had another Zonda too.

This car (which is #49) is now in Hong Kong.



In regards to F coupes:

51, 53, 54, 55, 57, 58, 59, 60 ( with S rear wings), 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, 67, 71, 72, 75, 76, 79, 83, 84, 85, 86, 88, 90, 92, 93, 116

91 began as an F but is now the prototype for almost all cars since (prototype)

Kind of 69, but it's a bit of a mix.

39 is a F prototype.

116 is a bit uncertain, but the rest should be ok if I got it right - it's been a bit of time since I looked. It's certainly over 25 (there are 27 cars not including 116 which should be, plus there is the 69, 91 and 39).

[munch997]

Jeremy -
I don't get it... So out of 25, they built 27 labelled 'F'

[cc8s]

My (admittedly perhaps out-of-date count) makes 29 F Coupe and 22 Roadsters.

[NRS]

munch997 said:

Jeremy -
I don't get it... So out of 25, they built 27 labelled 'F'

69 is called a Zonda 1/1, so officially not an F. It's more like the "special editions" that were more popular later.

91 is PT1, 84 is PT2 and 93 is called PT3. All of these have the "F" badge on the back. So if you remove these cars from the list it is 25 coupes. However you have 39, 84, 93 and 91 which are F's, but seem to have avoided being in the 25 since they are prototypes. 91 obviously is, since it's been updated a lot since (the "F" badge has also been updated with the upgrades). The others are perhaps prototypes only in name (although there are some small differences on some), so avoiding there being more than 25 official F's.

If 116 is an F coupe it would be the 26th, but it is a bit uncertain, and may possibly be a crashed car which is rebuilt.

The 25 cars is likely to be a bit flexible - there were a lot less of the earlier cars built compared to the official number of them. The F Roadsters almost didn't make the 25 cars - I think we are at 25 now if I remember right.

And compared to Ferrari's "we'll only produce 399+1" Enzos etc, well, Pagani is a lot more accurate!