Discussion
Streetrod said:
Justices said:
Pork said:
Streetrod said:
At the time it was apparently the most expensive motoring insurance payout ever.
Quickly superceeded by the 250 GTO crash in France, I'm assuming?Or am I completely wrong?
The Zonda on the other hand is made up of very large carbon panels for the body work, so if you smack the front or back you are going to need a complete new clam shell which are very silly money I'm afraid. Also this particular car had major chassis damage as well. Only the main tub, engine and gearbox and a few other odds and sods were used in the repaired car
NRS said:
W111AAM said:
Do we know who was driving it yet when it crashed?
Not, it was never confirmed.YoungRestorer said:
Does it actually matter if it were crashed? I mean it would have been fully repaired by the factory anyway, so it's just like one of the upgraded early Zondas? Streetrod, your encyclopedic knowledge of Zondas is incredible, how do you come by it all?
It comes from this site (I've linked to the bit about the GJ - the car after it was rebuilt).http://forum.pagani-zonda.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&a...
If there's anyone else wanting to look more into this particular car then the earlier part of the cars life is:
http://forum.pagani-zonda.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&a...
There are a couple of guys on there who have more knowledge the Streetrod (as far as I am aware, not sure what he doesn't say due to privacy stuff). I suspect "TheItalianJunkyard" on there is probably the worldwide expert on Zondas for someone not being in the factory, and he probably knows as much as some people in the factory (basically "Peleton" of Zondas). A lot of the stuff known is not posted on the site due to respecting owners privacy.
Streetrod, how did you hear about the chassis being replaced? The chassis is the same one as before - it has the same VIN. Since the VIN is related to the chassis if it is replaced then it gets a new VIN. Since this is not the case the chassis is the same. I also have some pics that are not public, and although some parts are not great it was not a case of destroying everything like you seem to suggest in your post.
Anyway back to this car. When I spoke about chassis damage I meant the rear sub frame, not the tub. A Zonda consists of front and rear sub frames attached to the central carbon tub. The sub frames support the engine, gearbox, suspension etc etc. So when I spoke about the chassis being replaced I meant the rear sub frame, sorry I should have been more specific. The VIN plate is actually attached to the carbon tub so was retained. Only in the event of a tub being destroyed would you lose the VIN
Edited by Streetrod on Sunday 30th September 11:43
traxx said:
Didn't one of the UK Zondas burn years ago (black one sold by Romans iirc)?
Surely that was a total loss so would have been a bigger insurance claim?
Anyway the insurance claim thing doesn't make any sense given that a UK Enzo was wrecked and the Mclaren F1 that was a total loss (although perhaps the insurance refused to payout on that one)
The black car you speak of Traxx still exists. Bob Forstner has been trying to sell the chassis as a rebuild project. I have spoken to him about it personally. As of this time I don't know of anyone having taken him up on it as he was looking for £1.3 million for the rebuilt car Surely that was a total loss so would have been a bigger insurance claim?
Anyway the insurance claim thing doesn't make any sense given that a UK Enzo was wrecked and the Mclaren F1 that was a total loss (although perhaps the insurance refused to payout on that one)
As for the insurance claim, as I said it was "As reported" at the time. The car was not a right off, those were repair costs. The two others you mention could well have been a lot more expensive, the reporting just may not have made it into the public domain
Streetrod said:
By the way I have never claimed myself to be an expert on Zonda's, I just know stuff as I know a number of owners and have contacts at the factory. And yes that site does have a lot of information which is very good, but as I said I get a lot of my info first hand. I hope that clears things up for you.
Anyway back to this car. When I spoke about chassis damage I meant the rear sub frame, not the tub. A Zonda consists of front and rear sub frames attached to the central carbon tub. The sub frames support the engine, gearbox, suspension etc etc. So when I spoke about the chassis being replaced I meant the rear sub frame, sorry I should have been more specific. The VIN plate is actually attached to the carbon tub so was retained. Only in the event of a tub being destroyed would you lose the VIN
Sorry, I wasn't meaning it in a bad way - just that a lot of it comes from there. I know you know stuff that isn't on there through talking to the factory etc (why I meantioned I don't know what you know through privacy stuff - which you often will not mention here for obvious reasons). Again I wasn't implying you are claiming to be an expert - just was saying there are a few other people who are also very knowledgeable too. Sorry if it sounded like I was being negative.Anyway back to this car. When I spoke about chassis damage I meant the rear sub frame, not the tub. A Zonda consists of front and rear sub frames attached to the central carbon tub. The sub frames support the engine, gearbox, suspension etc etc. So when I spoke about the chassis being replaced I meant the rear sub frame, sorry I should have been more specific. The VIN plate is actually attached to the carbon tub so was retained. Only in the event of a tub being destroyed would you lose the VIN
Edited by Streetrod on Sunday 30th September 11:43
You did mention the tub was used in the repair, the only reason I mentioned it was so if anyone was thinking about buying the car that they knew the history - and it would have been strange if the VIN was the same, but on a different chassis. I know you know about it, but in my opinion it's best to be careful about what is said, since often people who don't fully know can start rumours that aren't true, which is unfair on the owner of the car.
Again sorry if the previous post sounded negative.
No worries. I have contributed to Pagain-Zonda.net for a number of years, and like all sites of this type it’s where enthusiasts go to exchange information. It is constantly being adding too as people learn new stuff. A lot of my information dates back to before the site was set up but it’s always a good place to go to verify your information. As I know most of what I need now I rarely have to refer back to the site which is why I have not contributed much in the last year
TurboTerrific9 said:
Possibly misinformed but I was told by the auction house that it had been given a new VIN by the factory (admittedly very odd) and that was the reason it was being advertised as a 2010 car rather than a 2004 car with upgrades
Turbo, you seem to know a lot about this... any particular reason how you know so much about the market?The thing is that 25 numbered Zonda F coupes were built, their build number being indicated on the owner’s plate between the seats. It therefore is not right to advertise this car as an F. If my information is correct it still holds its original VIN number, but I don’t have a photo of it like I have of many others.
YoungRestorer said:
TurboTerrific9 said:
Possibly misinformed but I was told by the auction house that it had been given a new VIN by the factory (admittedly very odd) and that was the reason it was being advertised as a 2010 car rather than a 2004 car with upgrades
Turbo, you seem to know a lot about this... any particular reason how you know so much about the market?
Streetrod said:
The thing is that 25 numbered Zonda F coupes were built, their build number being indicated on the owner’s plate between the seats. It therefore is not right to advertise this car as an F. If my information is correct it still holds its original VIN number, but I don’t have a photo of it like I have of many others.
It does seem a little wrong... No 26 out of 25 if you will 
Streetrod said:
The black car you speak of Traxx still exists. Bob Forstner has been trying to sell the chassis as a rebuild project. I have spoken to him about it personally. As of this time I don't know of anyone having taken him up on it as he was looking for £1.3 million for the rebuilt car
Is that this one?http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
I think Forstners recently dropped the price on this one by a lot - even in LHD it looks amazingly desirable to me!
BelfastBoy said:
Streetrod said:
The black car you speak of Traxx still exists. Bob Forstner has been trying to sell the chassis as a rebuild project. I have spoken to him about it personally. As of this time I don't know of anyone having taken him up on it as he was looking for £1.3 million for the rebuilt car
Is that this one?http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
I think Forstners recently dropped the price on this one by a lot - even in LHD it looks amazingly desirable to me!
I had a very long conversation with Bob about the validity of putting this car back on the road. He assured me that the damage could be repaired even thought it had been burned badly when an oil leak onto the exhaust caused the fire. Also he told me the car would be sold with a new VIN if the customer requested it. When I questioned in a round about way if that was strictly honest he basically said that no one would be able to tell after the work had been done that the car had had the damage and it would come with a new warranty. Apparently Pagani had assured him the fixed car would be perfect.
Now at the time of our conversation which was in December last year, Pagani had a Cinque spec engine in a crate ready to go in. Bob told me that they had had interest from the Far East but also said that if a customer could not be found he would rebuild the car for himself.
Now I have seen a large number of pictures of this car and the damage that was caused, it did not look good, but the Tub seemed OK ish, the fire manly wreaked the rear of the car. The front clam was damaged but the font suspension seemed intact so no real problem there.
As of earlier this year Bob told me the car was back at the factory, but I have not heard of it since
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:07
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:11
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:13
Streetrod said:
No mate, that is a Roadster, this is the one. Sorry Traxx, I have just checked my notes, he was looking for £1.1 million not £1.3M as I stated earlier
I had a very long conversation with Bob about the validity of putting this car back on the road. He assured me that the damage could be repaired even thought it had been burned badly when an oil leak onto the exhaust caused the fire. Also he told me the car would be sold with a new VIN if the customer requested it. When I questioned in a round about way if that was strictly honest he basically said that no one would be able to tell after the work had been done that the car had had the damage and it would come with a new warranty. Apparently Pagani had assured him the fixed car would be perfect.
Now at the time of our conversation which was in December last year, Pagani had a Cinque spec engine in a crate ready to go in. Bob told me that they had had interest from the Far East but also said that if a customer could not be found he would rebuild the car for himself.
Now I have seen a large number of pictures of this car and the damage that was caused, it did not look good, but the Tub seemed OK ish, the fire manly wreaked the rear of the car. The front clam was damaged but the font suspension seemed intact so no real problem there.
As of earlier this year Bob told me the car was back at the factory, but I have not heard of it since
It's very difficult to rebuilt a burnt car but I am sure that anything that went back to Pagani would come out as new knowing what Mr H is like. Do wonder how this car is still around though as when one of my cars was burnt I had to write it off despite my protest, gutted as it could have been repaired.I had a very long conversation with Bob about the validity of putting this car back on the road. He assured me that the damage could be repaired even thought it had been burned badly when an oil leak onto the exhaust caused the fire. Also he told me the car would be sold with a new VIN if the customer requested it. When I questioned in a round about way if that was strictly honest he basically said that no one would be able to tell after the work had been done that the car had had the damage and it would come with a new warranty. Apparently Pagani had assured him the fixed car would be perfect.
Now at the time of our conversation which was in December last year, Pagani had a Cinque spec engine in a crate ready to go in. Bob told me that they had had interest from the Far East but also said that if a customer could not be found he would rebuild the car for himself.
Now I have seen a large number of pictures of this car and the damage that was caused, it did not look good, but the Tub seemed OK ish, the fire manly wreaked the rear of the car. The front clam was damaged but the font suspension seemed intact so no real problem there.
As of earlier this year Bob told me the car was back at the factory, but I have not heard of it since
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:07
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:11
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 2nd October 19:13
Wonder how much they want for the crated engine as mine is lacking in that department!
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