£3.5million for a Mac F1
Discussion
hurstg01 said:
BelfastBoy said:
Peleton25 mentioned a specific F1 forum over on Automotiveforums, and I'd strongly recommend this to anyone with an interest in the F1 and all variants. It's a fantastic resource for information, especially photos and old articles. If you have any questions about the F1, then I'm pretty sure you'll find the answers there. I'm at work right now and the forum is blocked for me here, but I think this is the right link (if not, someone else feel free to correct):
http://www.automotiveforums.com/f332-f1.html
Are you over there? http://www.automotiveforums.com/f332-f1.html
If so whats your opid?Cheib said:
hurstg01 said:
BelfastBoy said:
Peleton25 mentioned a specific F1 forum over on Automotiveforums, and I'd strongly recommend this to anyone with an interest in the F1 and all variants. It's a fantastic resource for information, especially photos and old articles. If you have any questions about the F1, then I'm pretty sure you'll find the answers there. I'm at work right now and the forum is blocked for me here, but I think this is the right link (if not, someone else feel free to correct):
http://www.automotiveforums.com/f332-f1.html
Are you over there? http://www.automotiveforums.com/f332-f1.html
If so whats your opid?
BelfastBoy said:
hurstg01 said:
Are you over there? If so whats your opid?
I just lurk on that forum from time to time - I've nothing to contribute and plenty to learn! Most of the time I just drool at the photos and wonder what the Sultan of Brunei does with all of his cars... If so whats your opid?
What's the word, pwned?
Peloton25 said:
No and No - but thanks for the smiles.
To answer your question Petrolhead95 - A decade or more worth of attention on any subject ought to allow anyone to learn a thing or two. The F1 is my primary passion - learning all about them is my goal. I like to say that I just pay more attention to these cars than anyone else cares to. In addition to learning about the cars I've also made some very good friends along the way.
With help from several like-mided enthusiasts, the near infinite power of Google and the internet, and a forum on AutomotiveForums.com where we gather our thoughts we've managed to piece together a lot of the story. There are still some gaps though so all contributions are greatly appreciated. I can't count the number of sources that have aided in the journey, but there have been people from all over the world who have some connection to the cars or knowledge to share who have contributed. We've attracted the interest of many owners - some who have taken the time and participated in the discussions or generated their own discussions as 'flemke' did here. There are indeed folks at the factory with their eye on me and in the past couple of years interaction with them has definitely worked in my favor. They've really been overly kind in recognizing my enthusiasm for the cars and including me where appropriate. I can't thank them enough!
It's really been amazing if you look back and see where/why/how this all started for me and the experiences I've had along the way. Sitting down with Gordon back in 2005 for a half hour chat when he came to ArtCenter in California and having him tell me I knew more about the cars than he did was one amazing moment. My first ride in an F1 a month later was yet another. With a trip I took to Italy earlier this year for the F1 Owner's Club 20th Anniversary gathering (which afforded me the opportunity to see 16 more cars) I have now seen 32 F1s in the carbon - incredible to even think about that! I still feel very fortunate each time I see an F1 as I know so many enthusiasts around the world might never get the chance to see even one in their lifetime. Lucky doesn't begin to describe it.
I enjoy nothing more than educating others and cataloging the history of these great cars. People obviously knew they were special when the F1 was introduced but I doubt many had the forethought to imagine a headline like the one which sparked this thread some 20 years ago. Anyway, to sum it up I am glad to be able to help tell the story and happy that people still care to listen.
>8^)
ER
Out of curiosity P25, who do you know at McLaren? How do they endorse what you do, assuming that they do? Are you contracted to them in any way through marketing or anything? and No - but thanks for the smiles. To answer your question Petrolhead95 - A decade or more worth of attention on any subject ought to allow anyone to learn a thing or two. The F1 is my primary passion - learning all about them is my goal. I like to say that I just pay more attention to these cars than anyone else cares to. In addition to learning about the cars I've also made some very good friends along the way.
With help from several like-mided enthusiasts, the near infinite power of Google and the internet, and a forum on AutomotiveForums.com where we gather our thoughts we've managed to piece together a lot of the story. There are still some gaps though so all contributions are greatly appreciated. I can't count the number of sources that have aided in the journey, but there have been people from all over the world who have some connection to the cars or knowledge to share who have contributed. We've attracted the interest of many owners - some who have taken the time and participated in the discussions or generated their own discussions as 'flemke' did here. There are indeed folks at the factory with their eye on me and in the past couple of years interaction with them has definitely worked in my favor. They've really been overly kind in recognizing my enthusiasm for the cars and including me where appropriate. I can't thank them enough!
It's really been amazing if you look back and see where/why/how this all started for me and the experiences I've had along the way. Sitting down with Gordon back in 2005 for a half hour chat when he came to ArtCenter in California and having him tell me I knew more about the cars than he did was one amazing moment. My first ride in an F1 a month later was yet another. With a trip I took to Italy earlier this year for the F1 Owner's Club 20th Anniversary gathering (which afforded me the opportunity to see 16 more cars) I have now seen 32 F1s in the carbon - incredible to even think about that! I still feel very fortunate each time I see an F1 as I know so many enthusiasts around the world might never get the chance to see even one in their lifetime. Lucky doesn't begin to describe it.
I enjoy nothing more than educating others and cataloging the history of these great cars. People obviously knew they were special when the F1 was introduced but I doubt many had the forethought to imagine a headline like the one which sparked this thread some 20 years ago. Anyway, to sum it up I am glad to be able to help tell the story and happy that people still care to listen.
>8^)
ER
Peloton25 said:
You're link is some strange format of the forum that comes up on Google searches.
Here's the link I'd recommend: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdis...
For those taking their first look, there are quite a few threads in the stickied post at the top titled "Best of the Best" where I'd suggest you start.
>8^)
ER
I had a quick look on the forum linked above. I live in NZ and many years ago saw a Mac F1 at a speed-show here in NZ. I think it was the first car (dark one with black plates) listed in the NZ section.Here's the link I'd recommend: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdis...
For those taking their first look, there are quite a few threads in the stickied post at the top titled "Best of the Best" where I'd suggest you start.
>8^)
ER
Then I saw the silver one a few years back at track-day on display in Taupo (NZ). Looking at both pics both cars have the same rego "MCL F1". A quick rego search shows this http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=mclf1 You'll see its last odometer check was Dec-20-2010 @ 16,354 Miles.
I believe but don't know for sure that only one car now resides in NZ. The one I saw around 5 or 6 years ago at the track-day. I'm not sure who the owner was but the Whittaker's family who own "Whittaker's Chocolate" evidently had one but not sure if they still do?
You may know all this already but thought I'd throw it in the discussion.
Slightly off-topic but reading the Brunei thread http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthre... I saw the list of cars from their database. I'd seen this years ago when it was first posted. My 964 Turbo (now sold) was from this collection and is on the list
POR 911 BL2727 WPOZZZ96ZMS470874
Kinda cool. I bought it with 3300 miles on the clock. It was mint car that gave me no issues and certainly was rotting away as per suggestions of some of the cars although I am aware some were stored in different conditions.
I even have a pic from an article about the Sultans brother Prince Jeffery and in the background you can see my 964.
POR 911 BL2727 WPOZZZ96ZMS470874
Kinda cool. I bought it with 3300 miles on the clock. It was mint car that gave me no issues and certainly was rotting away as per suggestions of some of the cars although I am aware some were stored in different conditions.
I even have a pic from an article about the Sultans brother Prince Jeffery and in the background you can see my 964.
Sofoklis said:
Out of curiosity P25, who do you know at McLaren? How do they endorse what you do, assuming that they do? Are you contracted to them in any way through marketing or anything?
I always find it interesting when people ask questions they probably know the answers to. I know a lot of people at McLaren - or rather, it seems they know me and then when I get the chance to meet them for the first time they are typically nicer to and far more interested in talking to me than I would ever expect. I won't toss out a list of names, but suffice to say in the past two years I have gone from knowing almost no one on the inside to what seems like nearly everyone who acts as a public face to the company. These are director level individuals all the way down the line. I'm a fairly good judge of people and I don't get the impression they are being nice because it is their job to be nice either. If they are and I am wrong, then perhaps they missed their calling with an acting career?
Endorsement is an interesting term - I wouldn't use that word. What I will say is that if my behavior and long running commentary on McLarens bothered any of them I likely wouldn't receive the positive attention and recognition that I do. For many years there was none - complete silence from the inside - and the occasional suggestion that McLaren didn't appreciate 'what we were doing'. Maybe true, maybe not - there was no offical word or any direct contact. That was also when there were different people in charge at McLaren - or certainly running the Customer Care group which looked after the F1s. The company seems to have changed quite a bit for the better (IMO) with the introduction of the new Automotive brand, including in their outreach to enthusiasts. That attitude shift is what I would say I have benefited from.
As an example - and not to boast - I received an invitation from McLaren executives to attend the Paris Motor Show at the end of September for the reveal of the P1 supercar. During the after-party on the stand at one point the Managing Director of McLaren Automotive brought Ron Dennis across the stage to introduce him to 'the McLaren Geek'. I'll just assume that was an affectionate term, right?
In making the introduction he told Ron he could ask me anything about any McLaren F1 and I'd have the answer. That's not true, but the fact that Antony Sheriff thinks highly enough about me to say that to his boss certainly seemed like praise - and really Antony is someone who I would have never expected to even know my name. It was really an honor to be there and that intro to Ron was just one of the amazing moments where I was made to feel like I belonged. As for any official or unofficial role - I once received an email that referred to me (in quotes) as "a friend of McLaren" but that title didn't come with an offer letter or business cards. I'd love to have the title of 'Chief of Enthusiasm' for the Automotive division but I keep looking on the McLaren Jobs website and they have not yet listed that position.
In Paris the Marketing team did pull me aside and interviewed me about my first thoughts on the P1 and that video has ended up on their Facebook page. I had not slept much in the previous 26 hours, I'm not used to being on the front side of the camera, and I had no chance to preview the questions so it is not me at my best - but it was very kind of them to include me in that way. No contracts were signed in the process and still when I think about it I am surprised they even asked.
I seem to be one of the most vocal McLaren enthusiasts, especially when it comes to the F1, but I do it all for the enjoyment I get from it and the thanks I get from others. Maybe someday that will change - I certainly would not turn down an offer to help build the brand in a more official capacity.
>8^)
ER
Edited by Peloton25 on Tuesday 13th November 19:41
Kiwi Carguy said:
I had a quick look on the forum linked above. I live in NZ and many years ago saw a Mac F1 at a speed-show here in NZ. I think it was the first car (dark one with black plates) listed in the NZ section.
Then I saw the silver one a few years back at track-day on display in Taupo (NZ). Looking at both pics both cars have the same rego "MCL F1". A quick rego search shows this http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=mclf1 You'll see its last odometer check was Dec-20-2010 @ 16,354 Miles.
I believe but don't know for sure that only one car now resides in NZ. The one I saw around 5 or 6 years ago at the track-day. I'm not sure who the owner was but the Whittaker's family who own "Whittaker's Chocolate" evidently had one but not sure if they still do?
You may know all this already but thought I'd throw it in the discussion.
I can try to set the record straight for you - at least to my knowledge there have been three F1s that have lived in the birthplace of Bruce McLaren. XP4, #049 and #018 and I believe two of them are still there today.Then I saw the silver one a few years back at track-day on display in Taupo (NZ). Looking at both pics both cars have the same rego "MCL F1". A quick rego search shows this http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=mclf1 You'll see its last odometer check was Dec-20-2010 @ 16,354 Miles.
I believe but don't know for sure that only one car now resides in NZ. The one I saw around 5 or 6 years ago at the track-day. I'm not sure who the owner was but the Whittaker's family who own "Whittaker's Chocolate" evidently had one but not sure if they still do?
You may know all this already but thought I'd throw it in the discussion.
XP4 - the fourth prototype built in early 1993 - was the first to arrive, being there from late 1994. While in NZ it was owned by Sir Roger Bhatnagar who claimed he hardly ever drove it and that the insurance cost him $25,000 per year. When parting with it he was quoted as saying:
"I'm a little bit sad to see it go because there is nothing better than this car and it is a McLaren."
I don't have the full story but he was said to have some connection to the Bruce McLaren Trust that enabled him the opportunity to purchase the car. He sold it to an American in 2000 who still retains the car today. Here's a rather old shot when it was listed for sale there:
The second car is #049, built in 1996 and delivered in August. For a long time we had confused the chassis number with a different silver car that kicked around Europe and the UK - that one turned out to be #046 instead. Getting back to NZ, the rumor for many years was that a silver F1 there belonged to the Whittaker family and that did prove later to be true. Mr Whittaker is an original owner (one of the few remaining if he still has the car) and at last check it has covered 14,134 kms. What is still surprising to me is that in all that use (most of it in the early years) not a single photo had ever surfaced of the actual car until May 2010. I was starting to think there were no cameras in NZ.
The plate on this car is actually 'MCL FI' ending in the letter I, not the number 1, which explains why it appears two cars wear the same plate. That also helped confuse the existence of the car for far too long as it was supposed to have the 'MCL F1' plate according to those who claimed to have seen it. Here's a shot of that one:
The last car is chassis #018 and wears the black 'MCL F1' plate. It didn't come to NZ until early in 2008 after bouncing around to other parts of the world. By my count this car has had 5 owners now and been through a pair of refits at the factory. It started life as a standard road car in a dark metallic blue paint with a gray interior - delivered new to Japan. From there it went to Sweden in the late 1990s for a brief period of a year or two, then on to Germany. The German owner was I think the one who had the car resprayed and the High Downforce Kit fitted. Later on it would go back to McLaren to have the engine upgraded and the louvers added over the front fenders. After Germany it made its way to Singapore in 2006 and remained in a showroom there on display until it sold to it's current NZ owner. I had the opportunity to meet him and see the car in Italy during the F1 Tour and he's extremely enthusiastic about it and not the least bit shy of using its potential. Here's a pic for those who haven't taken the advice to check out AF.com.
Cool story about your Porsche - there are said to be quite a few Brunei cars that have made it to your country, Australia and Japan given the RHD requirements. Maybe you can tell us what the condition was like when you got it if you were the first owner after Brunei?
>8^)
ER
Edited by Peloton25 on Tuesday 13th November 08:26
Wow Peloton25 that's great to get such a good run down of the history. I actually was aware XP4 had been in NZ but not much more than that.
Here's the info for MCL FI http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=mcl+fI Last warrant check 13th December 2011. This must be the Whittaker car as it is registered as "NZ New". They actually live within an hour of where I live.
Here's the info for MCL FI http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=mcl+fI Last warrant check 13th December 2011. This must be the Whittaker car as it is registered as "NZ New". They actually live within an hour of where I live.
Peloton25 said:
Cool story about your Porsche - there are said to be quite a few Brunei cars that have made it to your country, Australia and Japan given the RHD requirements. Maybe you can tell us what the condition was like when you got it if you were the first owner after Brunei?
>8^)
ER
Mine was almost perfect. Many cars were imported by a couple of dealerships/individuals here in NZ I believe in bulk lots and most cars were fine and some had issues, often ongoing. I purchased my car from a friend who bought it from the dealer that imported it.>8^)
ER
Interesting that XP4 still shows up on the system http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=xp4
A quick Google found this thread http://www.gpforums.co.nz/thread/386559/1/ that I see you've been on. The "Whittakers" do own a few cars and I am led to believe they are all stored in Wellington. I must make an effort to get to see it through some "contacts" if I can. I have never seen it on the road or at shows etc but that pic of it with the plate blanked out by the roundabout is around where the chocolate factory is.
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Tuesday 13th November 09:18
Peleton25 your knowledge is amazing, I know it's been said before but I want to say it again! If my numbers come up on the Euromillions I'll be giving you a message to help me choose one or two F1's!
What is done with the parts that are removed from cars if upgrades are taken place? Factory store them for future or are they given back to the owner of the car? Can't imagine them being "binned", I'd love to have a road spec F1 and a GTR, but would want the road one to be as it was intended and bring back to how it left the factory.
Another thing I'd do is offer the Sultan of Brunei an amount of money just to walk around his garage,and invite a few people along to document the journey.
Just need to win the £133million now and get the ball rolling!
What is done with the parts that are removed from cars if upgrades are taken place? Factory store them for future or are they given back to the owner of the car? Can't imagine them being "binned", I'd love to have a road spec F1 and a GTR, but would want the road one to be as it was intended and bring back to how it left the factory.
Another thing I'd do is offer the Sultan of Brunei an amount of money just to walk around his garage,and invite a few people along to document the journey.
Just need to win the £133million now and get the ball rolling!
Best of luck in your quest to see #049. If you do get to see it I would really love to add a few more photos to the two (yes, just two) that have appeared in the public domain. I'd especially be interested to see the interior and get a snap of the chassis plate ahead of the shifter if you can manage it. Interior appears to be fairly standard for a silver F1, but a lot of cars have little unique touches that set them apart from the rest.
If it helps at all, that shot I posted above was shared by the Toy Shop in Wellington - taken last November when they did the WOF on the car. It was shared here on their Facebook page.
>8^)
ER
If it helps at all, that shot I posted above was shared by the Toy Shop in Wellington - taken last November when they did the WOF on the car. It was shared here on their Facebook page.
>8^)
ER
JapFreak786 said:
Peleton25 your knowledge is amazing, I know it's been said before but I want to say it again! If my numbers come up on the Euromillions I'll be giving you a message to help me choose one or two F1's!
Very kind of you to say. It's not just my knowledge though, but really a collective of a lot of people's hard work and passion. I'm just the one who makes the most noise. I would love to help in any way that I can. I do need a ride in the car when all is said and done though - that's my standard commission. EDIT: Actually in this case I would like to alter my commission request. My man hurstg01 really needs a ride in a McLaren F1. He's not had the good fortune to do so yet and really very much deserves the experience.
JapFreak786 said:
What is done with the parts that are removed from cars if upgrades are taken place? Factory store them for future or are they given back to the owner of the car? Can't imagine them being "binned", I'd love to have a road spec F1 and a GTR, but would want the road one to be as it was intended and bring back to how it left the factory.
I am sure they aren't binned. I've never really asked what they do with things like the front end on a standard F1 when they fit a High Downforce Kit to it. Hard to stick that in a box and keep it on the shelf somewhere but maybe that is what's done in some cases? It is an interesting question.In the car world typically they say 'originality is key' but the trends we see with the F1 contradict that. Some F1s are refitted and come out on the other end looking nothing like they did before - there's really no going back in most cases, but one car did have the downforce kit removed in 2009 and returned to stock body form. Would be interesting to know the particulars but the work was carried out by Lanzante Motorsport instead of McLaren. When it comes to McLaren, I know they replace a lot of wear items on a rigorous schedule so the car is always in top condition and I'd imagine there's some lucky scrap collector who ends up with them. They're hardly the cool identifiable bits that you'd want to stick in a glass case under lights.
JapFreak786 said:
Another thing I'd do is offer the Sultan of Brunei an amount of money just to walk around his garage,and invite a few people along to document the journey.
Just need to win the £133million now and get the ball rolling!
I don't know that money would get you in the door. It's an odd place by most accounts and in the past few years very few people seem to have gotten anywhere near the cars. Quite a shame as before I heard the real stories I used to believe it was the coolest place on earth. Just need to win the £133million now and get the ball rolling!
>8^)
ER
Edited by Peloton25 on Tuesday 13th November 10:34
Kiwi Carguy said:
Slightly off-topic but reading the Brunei thread http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthre... I saw the list of cars from their database. I'd seen this years ago when it was first posted. My 964 Turbo (now sold) was from this collection and is on the list
POR 911 BL2727 WPOZZZ96ZMS470874
Kinda cool. I bought it with 3300 miles on the clock. It was mint car that gave me no issues and certainly was rotting away as per suggestions of some of the cars although I am aware some were stored in different conditions.
I used to despair, thinking about the fabulous cars apparently rotting away in Brunei, never driven or properly maintained (the F1s in particular). However, I believe that many of these tales connect to Prince Jefri, who bought all sorts of high-value items like cars just for fun, and never gave any thought about how they could be maintained etc. However, although the Sultan seems to view cars like art (to be hoarded and admired rather than driven), his collections are well-maintained. Feel free to correct me or add to anything I've said here. While I personally think it's a sin that so many amazing cars are out of sight in such an inaccessible place, they are at least stored in such a way that they could potentially be used again some day. (The guy won't be around forever, right? So what could happen to the cars, I wonder?)POR 911 BL2727 WPOZZZ96ZMS470874
Kinda cool. I bought it with 3300 miles on the clock. It was mint car that gave me no issues and certainly was rotting away as per suggestions of some of the cars although I am aware some were stored in different conditions.
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