£3.5million for a Mac F1

[BelfastBoy]

Since you rarely, if ever, see an F1 for sale in the classifieds, I'm assuming that they change hands 'under the radar' - negotiated deals via brokers etc? Do McLaren themselves ever arrange any deals? I remember reading somewhere once about the factory maintaining some sort of database trying to match potential owners and sellers? I'm only asking because it seems to me somewhat crass that the sale of this particular car has been so well-publicised. Prestige cars change hands all the time without any interest from the tabloids, after all. I'm someone with no personal experience of TH and no stance on the debate one way or another, but will only say that lots of other dealers wouldn't feel the need to shout so loudly about arranging such a deal.

Streetrod - maybe I misread part of your comment but were you referring to the specific F1 that won Le Mans in 1995? If so, I believe that McLaren retired that car from all competitions immediately and will probably never part with it. I think they made a lookalike GTR for the Sultan of Brunei though, so that one might find it's way out of the collection someday.

[Mini1275]

BelfastBoy said:

Streetrod - maybe I misread part of your comment but were you referring to the specific F1 that won Le Mans in 1995? If so, I believe that McLaren retired that car from all competitions immediately and will probably never part with it. I think they made a lookalike GTR for the Sultan of Brunei though, so that one might find it's way out of the collection someday.

You're right about the Le Mans winner.

Whilst having a tour of the MTC earlier this year we were told that Ron Dennis turned down fourteen million for that car without a thought.



That car is not going anywhere.

Edited by Mini1275 on Tuesday 6th November 16:29

[Davey S2]

I suspect Poulter's tweet is a wind up as he is big mates with TH but you never know

[hurstg01]

BelfastBoy said:

Since you rarely, if ever, see an F1 for sale in the classifieds, I'm assuming that they change hands 'under the radar' - negotiated deals via brokers etc? Do McLaren themselves ever arrange any deals? I remember reading somewhere once about the factory maintaining some sort of database trying to match potential owners and sellers? I'm only asking because it seems to me somewhat crass that the sale of this particular car has been so well-publicised. Prestige cars change hands all the time without any interest from the tabloids, after all. I'm someone with no personal experience of TH and no stance on the debate one way or another, but will only say that lots of other dealers wouldn't feel the need to shout so loudly about arranging such a deal.

Streetrod - maybe I misread part of your comment but were you referring to the specific F1 that won Le Mans in 1995? If so, I believe that McLaren retired that car from all competitions immediately and will probably never part with it. I think they made a lookalike GTR for the Sultan of Brunei though, so that one might find it's way out of the collection someday.

Mclaren do sell the F1 on behalf of the owners, but so do a few other people I know of. Keeping the Mclaren link is important to some owners, not so important to others.

Mclaren do keep a database of owners, as do others mentioned above as well as more people outside of those aforementioned...

As for the Le Mans Winner, Brunei has another unraced 1995 GTR that was made to mirror it, although never say never with regards to selling it, as Ron always said he wouldn't sell his Formula 1 cars, and we know thats not true..

[Sexual Chocolate]

So lets say the I won the Euro tonight. Could I just phone up Maclaren and say "Alright Ron my old mucker. Can you sell me a F1 please?"

I actually think its easier to buy a 250 GTO than a F1.

[hurstg01]

Getting through to Ron may be the hardest part of your scenario

There are 1 or 2 F1's for sale (especially a nice one at Bingo Sports in Japan) so you could either contact them direct, go through Mclaren or contact TH or other 'dealers' / 'brokers'.

[Sexual Chocolate]

hurstg01 said:

Getting through to Ron may be the hardest part of your scenario

There are 1 or 2 F1's for sale (especially a nice one at Bingo Sports in Japan) so you could either contact them direct, go through Mclaren or contact TH or other 'dealers' / 'brokers'.

Could say I was from hmrc


Anyway does it matter if its a "nice" one. Aren't they all like zondas and been customised to suit the owner or does that effect values? In my dream world mine would be a really black black, hdf kit with lm wheels and engine.

Edited by Sexual Chocolate on Tuesday 6th November 17:40

[Streetrod]

BelfastBoy said:

Streetrod - maybe I misread part of your comment but were you referring to the specific F1 that won Le Mans in 1995? If so, I believe that McLaren retired that car from all competitions immediately and will probably never part with it. I think they made a lookalike GTR for the Sultan of Brunei though, so that one might find it's way out of the collection someday.

Yes mate, that's the one I was talking about. I did not realise that McLaren kept it. It is the only one that has a real famous racing history that you could trade on, the others not so much. The Ferrari's on the other hand have race history coming out of their earholes which is what people buy into

[hurstg01]

Sexual Chocolate said:

hurstg01 said:

Getting through to Ron may be the hardest part of your scenario
There are 1 or 2 F1's for sale (especially a nice one at Bingo Sports in Japan) so you could either contact them direct, go through Mclaren or contact TH or other 'dealers' / 'brokers'.

Could say I was from hmrc
Anyway does it matter if its a "nice" one. Aren't they all like zondas and been customised to suit the owner or does that effect values? In my dream world mine would be.

'Nice' meant it's my favourite one [at the moment]. It doesn't shouldn't matter if an F1 has been customised / repaired, as you can always pay Mclaren / Lanzantes to revert it back to as-it-left-the-factory / to your preferred spec and you know that it's going to be 100% - it shouldn't affect the values too much.

My ideal F1 would be standard road car in very dark grey exterior, black leather interior with contrasting deep blue / deep red accents to the seats

[Streetrod]

Sexual Chocolate said:

hurstg01 said:

Getting through to Ron may be the hardest part of your scenario

There are 1 or 2 F1's for sale (especially a nice one at Bingo Sports in Japan) so you could either contact them direct, go through Mclaren or contact TH or other 'dealers' / 'brokers'.

Could say I was from hmrc


Anyway does it matter if its a "nice" one. Aren't they all like zondas and been customised to suit the owner or does that effect values? In my dream world mine would be a really black black, hdf kit with lm wheels and engine.

Edited by Sexual Chocolate on Tuesday 6th November 17:40

Zonda's are at least 10 years behind the curve at the moment, give them that time and I think you will see them trading in the 2-3 million pound range.

As for non customised ones, I think they could be more valued, you only have to look at the S than Pagani has been trying to buy back from its lady owner for the last five years as it’s the only original one left, as a possible indicator

[NRS]

It's the only original 6.0l car. There is at least 1 other original Zonda S (7.0l) I know of - and the owner told me he intends to keep it that way.

[Streetrod]

NRS said:

It's the only original 6.0l car. There is at least 1 other original Zonda S (7.0l) I know of - and the owner told me he intends to keep it that way.

I know that, just like there are a number of original F's. The yellow S I was talking about just happens to be the more famous one

[Peloton25]

Streetrod said:

It is the only one that has a real famous racing history that you could trade on, the others not so much.

Of course #01R's victory at Le Mans in 1995 is the most notable, but there are some others:

- #02R was the first F1 GTR to win a race - notably the very first race a McLaren F1 GTR ever entered

- #06R was 3rd overall at the 1995 Le Mans race with legend racer Derek Bell as one of the drivers

- #12R won the BPR Global GT Championship in 1996

- #14R won the Japan GT Championship in 1996 (although it was replaced for the last race by #04R)

- #18R was raced in two exhibition races in Brazil by F1 legend Nelson Piquet and won both events

- #20R placed 2nd overall and 1st in the GT1 class at Le Mans in 1997

- #24R won the 1998 British GT Championship and placed 4th overall in the 1998 24Hrs of Le Mans despite being a privateer team

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Tuesday 6th November 19:38

[paul0843]

Was at a neighbours wedding last week and was introduced to his cousin over from south africa
who amongst his 120 car collection has 2 daytonas an f1 and and also the new mclaren..
Didnt really have much chance to go into detail but invited myself over to see
cars close up..
Cant remember exactly when he said he bought it but it was £600k
Any idea which car has ended up in south africa?

[chevronb37]

Peloton25 said:

Streetrod said:

It is the only one that has a real famous racing history that you could trade on, the others not so much.

Of course #01R's victory at Le Mans in 1995 is the most notable, but there are some others:

- #02R was the first F1 GTR to win a race - notably the very first race a McLaren F1 GTR ever entered

- #06R was 3rd overall at the 1995 Le Mans race with legend racer Derek Bell as one of the drivers

- #12R won the BPR Global GT Championship in 1996

- #14R won the Japan GT Championship in 1996 (although it was replaced for the last race by #04R)

- #18R was raced in two exhibition races in Brazil by F1 legend Nelson Piquet and won both events

- #20R placed 2nd overall and 1st in the GT1 class at Le Mans in 1997

- #24R won the 1998 British GT Championship and placed 4th overall in the 1998 24Hrs of Le Mans despite being a privateer team

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Tuesday 6th November 19:38

Any F1 GTR with race pedigree is special. I've mentioned it in numerous threads but I was fortunate to see the GTRs race in BPR/FIA/British GTs on a number of occasions during the mid-late 1990s and you knew you were seeing something incredible. I would take a race car with any heritage over a road car simply because they have so much more meaning to me. Oh and the road car would be completely and utterly wasted on a ham-fisted arse like me.

[NRS]

paul0843 said:

Was at a neighbours wedding last week and was introduced to his cousin over from south africa
who amongst his 120 car collection has 2 daytonas an f1 and and also the new mclaren..
Didnt really have much chance to go into detail but invited myself over to see
cars close up..
Cant remember exactly when he said he bought it but it was £600k
Any idea which car has ended up in south africa?

The price for the F1 in South Africa is probably not representative, since they have a high car tax. There's some cars (a Pagani for instance) that are there and for sale, but have never sold since the owner doesn't want to make such a large loss. However the price of the car is too much in other parts of the world for someone to buy it over another car.

[Peloton25]

paul0843 said:

Was at a neighbours wedding last week and was introduced to his cousin over from south africa
who amongst his 120 car collection has 2 daytonas an f1 and and also the new mclaren..
Didnt really have much chance to go into detail but invited myself over to see
cars close up..
Cant remember exactly when he said he bought it but it was £600k
Any idea which car has ended up in south africa?

There are two F1s known to be in South Africa - chassis #023 in the Franschhoek Motor Museum owned by Johann Rupert and chassis #037 which belongs to Peter Manelis. Given the price you mention you'd be talking about #037 as Peter has had the car since about 1999 I believe. He even brought the car with him to the USA for a couple of years from 2002 to 2004 while he was living here.

Here's a photo of the two SA F1s together - #037 is the one without the High Downforce Kit. Some here may recognize #023 as previously being in the UK with a couple of high profile owners.

<-- Click to enlarge

Hope you do get to see it in person, and if so I'd love to see a photo of the chassis plate ahead of the shifter as that is one we've not yet managed to collect.

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Tuesday 6th November 21:34

[paul0843]

Thanks Eric.. Its definately peter manelis s car... It was a greek wedding..(-:
Must admit though,he was also very excited about his early alfas and also
about his american cars,including a trans am he had with 800bhp ..

[Peloton25]

Yes - I have heard many great stories about his collection. Have a few pics inside one of his garages and it is a pretty good mix.

He recently brought the F1 out to a track day at Kyalami circuit - you can see some more pictures in the dealership's Facebook album:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.39982608...

>8^)
ER

[wtdoom]

was over 3.5