Where are all the 360 CS's?
Discussion
richardmeaks said:
Schnellmann said:
Gleaning knowledge about a car by reading magazines and listening to Clarkson is a secondhand approach. Perhaps you should buy and own both before spouting off so categorically.
The CS is a special car to own. It looks lovely. You feel great behind the wheel. The sound is amazing and there is a certain buzz being in a Ferrari. However, purely as a driving tool I found the GT3 better. The feedback in the 996 GT3, particularly the steering, is sublime. It sounds brilliant too, although in a completely different way to the CS. Performance wise (if you compare the gen 2 996 GT3) there is hardly anything in it. Overall it comes down to personal choices and how you plan to use it. For weekend drives and the pleasure of ownership I'd take the CS (all else being equal, which they are not as the CS was almost twice as expensive new and is more than twice as expensive now). If I were planning to do track days I'd take the GT3 every time.
Well put. The GT3 has its appeal certainly. The other comments about steering feel are simply nonsense though, as both feel and handling is miles ahead of the 360 and indeed the F430 as I've driven both. When it comes down to 360CS or GT3 they're just different and it comes down to what you prefer. If you're considering both, the best bet is to drive both and make your choice. The sense of occasion with the 360CS is just the icing on the cake though. If you want driver ability and want to feel like a kid in a race car, I know what I'd put my money on.The CS is a special car to own. It looks lovely. You feel great behind the wheel. The sound is amazing and there is a certain buzz being in a Ferrari. However, purely as a driving tool I found the GT3 better. The feedback in the 996 GT3, particularly the steering, is sublime. It sounds brilliant too, although in a completely different way to the CS. Performance wise (if you compare the gen 2 996 GT3) there is hardly anything in it. Overall it comes down to personal choices and how you plan to use it. For weekend drives and the pleasure of ownership I'd take the CS (all else being equal, which they are not as the CS was almost twice as expensive new and is more than twice as expensive now). If I were planning to do track days I'd take the GT3 every time.
Edited by richardmeaks on Saturday 22 June 17:00
You may have driven a CS but from your writing you come across like a teenage boy. I remain skeptical unless proven otherwise.
roygarth said:
Plain vanilla 993 and 993RS are at this percentage spread, and at £30K plays £150K are heading towards these absolute figures.
Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
Fair point! Can't argue with your logic.Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
I guess with the Porsche, many prefer the 993 to the later models hence I guess the strong values for the top variants. Will people prefer the CS to the 430 Scud, 458 Scud over time? Who knows!
vxdave said:
roygarth said:
Plain vanilla 993 and 993RS are at this percentage spread, and at £30K plays £150K are heading towards these absolute figures.
Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
Fair point! Can't argue with your logic.Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
I guess with the Porsche, many prefer the 993 to the later models hence I guess the strong values for the top variants. Will people prefer the CS to the 430 Scud, 458 Scud over time? Who knows!
Schnellmann said:
vxdave said:
roygarth said:
Plain vanilla 993 and 993RS are at this percentage spread, and at £30K plays £150K are heading towards these absolute figures.
Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
Fair point! Can't argue with your logic.Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
I guess with the Porsche, many prefer the 993 to the later models hence I guess the strong values for the top variants. Will people prefer the CS to the 430 Scud, 458 Scud over time? Who knows!
jackal said:
As you might imagine all the little things add up. Brakes, bushings, engine mounts, top mounts, uprights, steering arms, ride height, suspension, bars, gearchange and of course the 3.8 and box and lots of weight saving items. Overall i'd say there is quite a large difference when driving the two of them. The list of differences is actually very long ... Perhaps a fair bit more than say the differences between 360/cs or 430/scud.
I've had three 993s, which shows how highly I rate them. Would love to try the RS (have driven the 2.7 and 964 RS and both were special).Schnellmann said:
I don't need to consider them as have owned both.
You may have driven a CS but from your writing you come across like a teenage boy. I remain skeptical unless proven otherwise.
Perhaps if you'd read my comments before being insulting, you would have seen that I was responding to the comments by "jackal" about steering not your own.You may have driven a CS but from your writing you come across like a teenage boy. I remain skeptical unless proven otherwise.
jackal said:
Schnellmann said:
vxdave said:
roygarth said:
Plain vanilla 993 and 993RS are at this percentage spread, and at £30K plays £150K are heading towards these absolute figures.
Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
Fair point! Can't argue with your logic.Different marque, but a reasonable comparison?
I guess with the Porsche, many prefer the 993 to the later models hence I guess the strong values for the top variants. Will people prefer the CS to the 430 Scud, 458 Scud over time? Who knows!
On that note I wonder if the smart home for £70K is a low mileage manual 430. Last of the line manual V8 berlinettas. I loved mine, in fact I regret selling it.
Funny how the original subject went from where are the Strads/none for sale to 996 GT3RS are better blablabla or the 430 is quicker.
1st point: 996RS are not better, it's a question of taste FACT
2nd point: 430 are not faster nor the same budget FACT no point of comparing apples with oranges
As to where they are, well most of them are being enjoyed I am sure. Quite a few of them exchanged hands during the fall winter here in the UK and abroad...I know so, I was hunting for one then, and have been in touch with quite a few others who also did acquire during the same period.
Unfortunately if you want to see Strads on track, I fear you won't be seeing many of them as they are way too loud for the UK except on 105dB days and if the marshals are sympathic...and on the roads, well UK roads are really unfriendly to them (even in London at the time when these were new and the economy was booming, you hardly ever saw one).
1st point: 996RS are not better, it's a question of taste FACT
2nd point: 430 are not faster nor the same budget FACT no point of comparing apples with oranges
As to where they are, well most of them are being enjoyed I am sure. Quite a few of them exchanged hands during the fall winter here in the UK and abroad...I know so, I was hunting for one then, and have been in touch with quite a few others who also did acquire during the same period.
Unfortunately if you want to see Strads on track, I fear you won't be seeing many of them as they are way too loud for the UK except on 105dB days and if the marshals are sympathic...and on the roads, well UK roads are really unfriendly to them (even in London at the time when these were new and the economy was booming, you hardly ever saw one).
richardmeaks said:
Perhaps if you'd read my comments before being insulting, you would have seen that I was responding to the comments by "jackal" about steering not your own.
My statement was not meant as an insult, it was just my assessment of your posts. Quoting Clarkson and dismissing statements from other, when you have no posting history nor a profile to back up your claims is unlikely to win you credibility or friends on here.
911Thrasher said:
Funny how the original subject went from where are the Strads/none for sale to 996 GT3RS are better blablabla or the 430 is quicker.
1st point: 996RS are not better, it's a question of taste FACT
2nd point: 430 are not faster nor the same budget FACT no point of comparing apples with oranges
As to where they are, well most of them are being enjoyed I am sure. Quite a few of them exchanged hands during the fall winter here in the UK and abroad...I know so, I was hunting for one then, and have been in touch with quite a few others who also did acquire during the same period.
Unfortunately if you want to see Strads on track, I fear you won't be seeing many of them as they are way too loud for the UK except on 105dB days and if the marshals are sympathic...and on the roads, well UK roads are really unfriendly to them (even in London at the time when these were new and the economy was booming, you hardly ever saw one).
1st point: 996RS are not better, it's a question of taste FACT
2nd point: 430 are not faster nor the same budget FACT no point of comparing apples with oranges
As to where they are, well most of them are being enjoyed I am sure. Quite a few of them exchanged hands during the fall winter here in the UK and abroad...I know so, I was hunting for one then, and have been in touch with quite a few others who also did acquire during the same period.
Unfortunately if you want to see Strads on track, I fear you won't be seeing many of them as they are way too loud for the UK except on 105dB days and if the marshals are sympathic...and on the roads, well UK roads are really unfriendly to them (even in London at the time when these were new and the economy was booming, you hardly ever saw one).
You know it makes sense
Speed.deman said:
jackal said:
That doesn't surprise me with mr911 as he seems to love big margins. He had a 964rs not so long ago and I was genuinely shocked when I discovered what he bought it in for vs. what he was selling it for.
There are a number of dealers that seem to do that. I guess the proof of the pudding is in the eating.Good for them if they can make a living...And dont forget it's cash they invest in their job. And if we were as good at sourcing "cheap" cars and making a profit out of it, I am quite certain we would too.
It's not a very smart comment to do.
Note: and indeed the proof is in the pudding, if he sold then I guess he read the market very well
Edited by 911Thrasher on Monday 24th June 10:21
I had my CS serviced recently at my local main dealer. The service manager said something like "love these, we have a list of good customers looking for a good one, but they rarely come up". The key to the CS is lots of little details, a bit like the point made earlier about the 993RS.
I can easily afford other cars but I will hopefully never have to sell the CS. I returned from Le Mans last night in it - it is a fantastic machine and I love it. It is quite hard to explain why it is so special (I wouldn't feel the same way about a Scud, which certainly is a more modern and faster car). I think it has something to do with the back to basics rawness plus the looks plus the noise plus the driving experience. The mix of all those and the fact that it was the first of its kind. It wasn't built on the factory line but the competition line, presumably next to the NGTs etc.
I have had a non standard geometry put on the car by the dealer and it has made a big difference in a positive way, but that's the only change to standard.
Having seen the most amazing metal over the last few days, there is nothing that I would want to replace it with (other than silly money stuff) even if I wanted to change. So, it's back to demand and supply again. I think some owners have 'passed through' a CS for the driving experience, which gets surpassed in every car, and most of those left with them own them for a myriad of reasons other than the driving experience alone (which is still really fantastic - gear change may be slower than a Scud or 458 but then a 993 RS is slower again - so what? Doesn't make any difference to what a CS is all about really).
I can easily afford other cars but I will hopefully never have to sell the CS. I returned from Le Mans last night in it - it is a fantastic machine and I love it. It is quite hard to explain why it is so special (I wouldn't feel the same way about a Scud, which certainly is a more modern and faster car). I think it has something to do with the back to basics rawness plus the looks plus the noise plus the driving experience. The mix of all those and the fact that it was the first of its kind. It wasn't built on the factory line but the competition line, presumably next to the NGTs etc.
I have had a non standard geometry put on the car by the dealer and it has made a big difference in a positive way, but that's the only change to standard.
Having seen the most amazing metal over the last few days, there is nothing that I would want to replace it with (other than silly money stuff) even if I wanted to change. So, it's back to demand and supply again. I think some owners have 'passed through' a CS for the driving experience, which gets surpassed in every car, and most of those left with them own them for a myriad of reasons other than the driving experience alone (which is still really fantastic - gear change may be slower than a Scud or 458 but then a 993 RS is slower again - so what? Doesn't make any difference to what a CS is all about really).
Speed.deman said:
jackal said:
That doesn't surprise me with mr911 as he seems to love big margins. He had a 964rs not so long ago and I was genuinely shocked when I discovered what he bought it in for vs. what he was selling it for.
There are a number of dealers that seem to do that. I guess the proof of the pudding is in the eating.911Thrasher said:
Don't forget it's their job!
As a retailer myself I couldn't agree more.My only point to the customers though would be to do your homework very carefully. Many of these types of discussions often contain a fairly potent undertone, an accepted premise that if the price on the windshield is high then that automatically grants the vehicle unquestionable status with regard to condition and history. In my 25 year experience of buying nice cars nothing could be further from the truth and a few examples I quoted earlier on give you some flavour of what i'm talking about. Compromises, smoke screens, lack of thoroughness and outright dishonesty exists at all levels. I have seen the same in Porsche circles too; only recently an acquatinace paid absolute top dollar from a very well known retailer and assumed that the car was perfect because of the extremely high RRP (another 10-15% over what someone like 911Virgin would charge) but the problems started with the 7 year old tyres and ended with a whole ton of work required underneath to the aged and worn suspension. That's not to say that the high price on some examples isn't ever justified, of course it is. Just go in with your eyes open and don't assume anything based on mirror polished floors, impressive inventory and sky high prices.
Schnellmann said:
My statement was not meant as an insult, it was just my assessment of your posts.
Quoting Clarkson and dismissing statements from other, when you have no posting history nor a profile to back up your claims is unlikely to win you credibility or friends on here.
..and another insulting comment. I don't know you and don't presume to. Perhaps you ought to take a little more time to consider your own affairs and make your own decisions before caring so much about the comments and affairs of others and making insulting and presumtive comments.Quoting Clarkson and dismissing statements from other, when you have no posting history nor a profile to back up your claims is unlikely to win you credibility or friends on here.
Edited by richardmeaks on Monday 24th June 15:05
richardmeaks said:
Schnellmann said:
My statement was not meant as an insult, it was just my assessment of your posts.
Quoting Clarkson and dismissing statements from other, when you have no posting history nor a profile to back up your claims is unlikely to win you credibility or friends on here.
..and another insulting comment. I don't know you and don't presume to nor do I care what you post on the forum. Perhaps you ought to take a little more time to consider your own affairs and make your own decisions before caring so much about the comments and affairs of others and taking to the forum to ask what you should do for every decision.Quoting Clarkson and dismissing statements from other, when you have no posting history nor a profile to back up your claims is unlikely to win you credibility or friends on here.
I'm not sure why he decided to inslult you but I for one think he has too much time on his hands, he seems to consult hundreds of people before making the decision he was gonna make in the 1st place!
Hopefully he'll call me a spotty teenager now
ferdi p said:
richardmeaks said:
Schnellmann said:
My statement was not meant as an insult, it was just my assessment of your posts.
Quoting Clarkson and dismissing statements from other, when you have no posting history nor a profile to back up your claims is unlikely to win you credibility or friends on here.
..and another insulting comment. I don't know you and don't presume to nor do I care what you post on the forum. Perhaps you ought to take a little more time to consider your own affairs and make your own decisions before caring so much about the comments and affairs of others and taking to the forum to ask what you should do for every decision.Quoting Clarkson and dismissing statements from other, when you have no posting history nor a profile to back up your claims is unlikely to win you credibility or friends on here.
I'm not sure why he decided to inslult you but I for one think he has too much time on his hands, he seems to consult hundreds of people before making the decision he was gonna make in the 1st place!
Hopefully he'll call me a spotty teenager now
OK. Mea culpa. Apologies to Richard.
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