F430 Market Watch
Discussion
Voicey - I hope I'm not going too far off topic but wonder if you can help me with a question?
I discovered your buying guide actually after purchasing my car back in April but have it bookmarked on my computer all the same and read your market watch updates regularly with interest.
I finally bought my first Ferrari from a UK main dealer, as I say back in April this year. It was a 2006, F430 Spider, Rosso Corsa / Crema, bordeaux carpets, 6 speed manual, 19k miles, with full main dealer history and services carried out every year without fail, £84,850 - A rare find I thought! (Don't know if this was picked up on your price watch as I jumped on it quite quickly).
Anyway, just 4 months in to ownership and I'm sorry to say, it's been something of a nightmare. The following work has been carried out so far:
Firstly, work as part of pre delivery preparation:
1. Annual Service
2. Replaced Gear Stick Bush's
3. Replaced Suspension Parts - O/S/F & N/S/F Lower and Upper Arms and Levers
4. Replace 4 x Pirelli P Zero Rosso Tyres (rear due to wear, front due to age - over 5 years old)
Three Weeks Later - Clutch slipping so replaced
Two Weeks After That - Rattle from rear - Exhaust Bracket Welded to Correct
A Further Two Weeks later, the Rattle Returns! - Decision Taken to Replace Both Manifolds
The only comfort in all of this, is that ALL costs for repair have been covered by the main dealer! - I reckon now somewhere in the region of £15K! Thank god I didn't buy privately!
While I'm somewhat disappointed that this car has spent most of it's time during my ownership, in the Ferrari Garage rather than mine, I have to say the main dealer has been very good and quick to resolve issues.
Although I realise this may all seem slightly off topic, I suspect this thread is followed by many who are looking to buy their first Ferrari, so maybe there's a story and points to consider here for others when buying, both in terms of where to buy from and what kind of come back you will have, in the event that things do go wrong early on.
Well there's the background... So my question is this?
The manifolds are in the process of being replaced as we speak - I read in your buyers guide which links to this page, that Ferrari updated the manifold design to a Mark 2. I did ask the main dealer the question, would they be Mark 2 headers, (as I saw it described on the garage paperwork as "Ferrari Warranty Manifold Kit"). The reply I got was that they were Ferrari and the only one's that they do - which lead me to assume that they would be Mark 2, although someone on Ferrari Chat has told me Ferrari no longer do new headers, only reconditioned parts - Have you come across this before?
I guess I could pay out for some new Capristo Manifolds now, but from what understand, if I fit non Ferrari parts and damage occurs as a result, it will invalidate the Ferrari Warranty if I were to try and claim for any subsequent damage.
I think the answer for me is to take the free of charge Ferrari fix, wait 20 months until the warranty expires (if the engine fails during this time, as a result of the cat in the manifold, Ferrari will no doubt sort it under warranty) and as soon as the warranty is over buy new Capristo's.
Your thought would be greatly appreciated?
Many thanks
Allister
I discovered your buying guide actually after purchasing my car back in April but have it bookmarked on my computer all the same and read your market watch updates regularly with interest.
I finally bought my first Ferrari from a UK main dealer, as I say back in April this year. It was a 2006, F430 Spider, Rosso Corsa / Crema, bordeaux carpets, 6 speed manual, 19k miles, with full main dealer history and services carried out every year without fail, £84,850 - A rare find I thought! (Don't know if this was picked up on your price watch as I jumped on it quite quickly).
Anyway, just 4 months in to ownership and I'm sorry to say, it's been something of a nightmare. The following work has been carried out so far:
Firstly, work as part of pre delivery preparation:
1. Annual Service
2. Replaced Gear Stick Bush's
3. Replaced Suspension Parts - O/S/F & N/S/F Lower and Upper Arms and Levers
4. Replace 4 x Pirelli P Zero Rosso Tyres (rear due to wear, front due to age - over 5 years old)
Three Weeks Later - Clutch slipping so replaced
Two Weeks After That - Rattle from rear - Exhaust Bracket Welded to Correct
A Further Two Weeks later, the Rattle Returns! - Decision Taken to Replace Both Manifolds
The only comfort in all of this, is that ALL costs for repair have been covered by the main dealer! - I reckon now somewhere in the region of £15K! Thank god I didn't buy privately!
While I'm somewhat disappointed that this car has spent most of it's time during my ownership, in the Ferrari Garage rather than mine, I have to say the main dealer has been very good and quick to resolve issues.
Although I realise this may all seem slightly off topic, I suspect this thread is followed by many who are looking to buy their first Ferrari, so maybe there's a story and points to consider here for others when buying, both in terms of where to buy from and what kind of come back you will have, in the event that things do go wrong early on.
Well there's the background... So my question is this?
The manifolds are in the process of being replaced as we speak - I read in your buyers guide which links to this page, that Ferrari updated the manifold design to a Mark 2. I did ask the main dealer the question, would they be Mark 2 headers, (as I saw it described on the garage paperwork as "Ferrari Warranty Manifold Kit"). The reply I got was that they were Ferrari and the only one's that they do - which lead me to assume that they would be Mark 2, although someone on Ferrari Chat has told me Ferrari no longer do new headers, only reconditioned parts - Have you come across this before?
I guess I could pay out for some new Capristo Manifolds now, but from what understand, if I fit non Ferrari parts and damage occurs as a result, it will invalidate the Ferrari Warranty if I were to try and claim for any subsequent damage.
I think the answer for me is to take the free of charge Ferrari fix, wait 20 months until the warranty expires (if the engine fails during this time, as a result of the cat in the manifold, Ferrari will no doubt sort it under warranty) and as soon as the warranty is over buy new Capristo's.
Your thought would be greatly appreciated?
Many thanks
Allister
Edited by allister on Thursday 20th August 06:52
Edited by allister on Thursday 20th August 06:58
Edited by allister on Thursday 20th August 07:00
Edited by allister on Thursday 20th August 07:01
Edited by allister on Thursday 20th August 07:10
Hi Allister,
I'm sorry that you have gone through this pain with your new car - it must be a real pisser to spend all that money to find that the car wasn't A1. Thankfully you have a warranty and you're getting the car sorted.
With regard to your question on the manifolds - they will be brand new Mk2. As you know, even these are prone to failure so it is important to get them checked out regularly.
Your story highlights the need for prospective purchasers to get a car inspected before parting with their money. It also highlights that a FFSH really is no guarantee that the car has been looked after properly - in fact, in my experience, FFSH usually indicates that the car will not have been serviced correctly.
If you, or anyone else for that matter, would like any more help or information you only have to drop me a line: http://aldousvoice.com/contact/
Cheers,
AV
I'm sorry that you have gone through this pain with your new car - it must be a real pisser to spend all that money to find that the car wasn't A1. Thankfully you have a warranty and you're getting the car sorted.
With regard to your question on the manifolds - they will be brand new Mk2. As you know, even these are prone to failure so it is important to get them checked out regularly.
Your story highlights the need for prospective purchasers to get a car inspected before parting with their money. It also highlights that a FFSH really is no guarantee that the car has been looked after properly - in fact, in my experience, FFSH usually indicates that the car will not have been serviced correctly.
If you, or anyone else for that matter, would like any more help or information you only have to drop me a line: http://aldousvoice.com/contact/
Cheers,
AV
Righto - I'm on holiday so it's going to be brief. For the latest on 360 prices head over to Aldous Voice Blog.
F430 prices have added another 3% over the last month - the price index now stands at 109.57. This is the fifth straight month of an increase and asking prices have added 10% since the start of the year.
The number of cars for sale (on PH) remains at 68 but the distribution around the £80k mark has skewed even further to the topside.
Big table:
Plot:
Prices:
Others:
Any questions/request please ask away but be prepared to wait until I return home next week.
Regards,
Aldous Voice.
F430 prices have added another 3% over the last month - the price index now stands at 109.57. This is the fifth straight month of an increase and asking prices have added 10% since the start of the year.
The number of cars for sale (on PH) remains at 68 but the distribution around the £80k mark has skewed even further to the topside.
Big table:
Plot:
Prices:
Others:
Any questions/request please ask away but be prepared to wait until I return home next week.
Regards,
Aldous Voice.
It's going to be another brief update as I have a lot going on. For the latest on 360 prices head over to the Aldous Voice Blog.
F430 values have increased for a sixth straight month - average prices rose 2.22% over the last month which leaves the index at 112.00.
The skew of prices around the £80k mark has moved further in favour of the topside with the number of cars advertised still fairly low:
Big table:
Plot:
Average prices:
There's been some chat about manual values (again). Here's some analysis on the current delta...
Other charts/tables:
Any questions/request please ask away.
Regards,
Aldous Voice.
F430 values have increased for a sixth straight month - average prices rose 2.22% over the last month which leaves the index at 112.00.
The skew of prices around the £80k mark has moved further in favour of the topside with the number of cars advertised still fairly low:
Big table:
Plot:
Average prices:
There's been some chat about manual values (again). Here's some analysis on the current delta...
Other charts/tables:
Any questions/request please ask away.
Regards,
Aldous Voice.
Juber said:
I know lots of LHD's are flooding the UK market currently, however £70+k for the lowest price LHD example is no wonder why its an attractive proposition to import cars from Europe and sell them on in the UK.
We've brought in 3 360's in the last 3 months alone. It's a very attractive proposition indeed. Time for this years penultimate update. For news of a shock 15% rise in 360 prices please head over to the Aldous Voice Blog.
Average F430 prices have increased by just 0.47% over the last month - the F430 price index now stands at 112.52. This small increase in average values is hiding a bigger rise at the top of the market. The number of cars priced at £100k or more (excluding £99,999) was 2 in September, 5 in October and 9 in November. This includes a very optimistically priced spider at the best part of £140k - which would buy you a very nice 458 Italia. Are we going to see F430 prices start to overlap the 458 as many other older tipos have?
The number of cars for sale has increased a touch this month but the skew around the £80k mark remains 80:20 (ie: 80% of cars are priced above £80k).
Here's the big table:
Here's the mileage/price data:
The premium for a manual car seems to have firmed up a little. I can remember when it was nigh on impossible to sell a manual car unless it was deeply discounted. How times have changed...
Here are the other charts/tables:
Any questions/requests please ask away.
Regards,
Aldous Voice.
Average F430 prices have increased by just 0.47% over the last month - the F430 price index now stands at 112.52. This small increase in average values is hiding a bigger rise at the top of the market. The number of cars priced at £100k or more (excluding £99,999) was 2 in September, 5 in October and 9 in November. This includes a very optimistically priced spider at the best part of £140k - which would buy you a very nice 458 Italia. Are we going to see F430 prices start to overlap the 458 as many other older tipos have?
The number of cars for sale has increased a touch this month but the skew around the £80k mark remains 80:20 (ie: 80% of cars are priced above £80k).
Here's the big table:
Here's the mileage/price data:
The premium for a manual car seems to have firmed up a little. I can remember when it was nigh on impossible to sell a manual car unless it was deeply discounted. How times have changed...
Here are the other charts/tables:
Any questions/requests please ask away.
Regards,
Aldous Voice.
Really great service you provide Aldous - thanks!
I have contacted you privately previously, but following on to that email I thought others on here might be interested in my experience.
I have a RHD Grigio Silverstone F430 Manual, CCMs, black daytona interior, carbon driving zone, FFSH and all is in good order. I was lucky and bought a good one and thus far, except two engine mounts needing replacing and 8 Hill Engineering ball joints the car has cost me nothing... I have had other marques over the years and can say with conviction this one is the most reliable sports car I have owned to date.
I paid £73k for mine 15 months ago - averaging off the elements you track I get a value today of £90335.50 - I can't believe that such an increase has happened, especially as I have added 9000 miles onto mine! Amazing timing!
I read Tom Hartleys interview in the paper over the weekend and he seems to think the market is about to crash by 20% - I'm guessing he is talking more about the really top end stuff though?
Where do you think it will end Aldous?
Thanks again for this great series of posts!
Cheers
TC
I have contacted you privately previously, but following on to that email I thought others on here might be interested in my experience.
I have a RHD Grigio Silverstone F430 Manual, CCMs, black daytona interior, carbon driving zone, FFSH and all is in good order. I was lucky and bought a good one and thus far, except two engine mounts needing replacing and 8 Hill Engineering ball joints the car has cost me nothing... I have had other marques over the years and can say with conviction this one is the most reliable sports car I have owned to date.
I paid £73k for mine 15 months ago - averaging off the elements you track I get a value today of £90335.50 - I can't believe that such an increase has happened, especially as I have added 9000 miles onto mine! Amazing timing!
I read Tom Hartleys interview in the paper over the weekend and he seems to think the market is about to crash by 20% - I'm guessing he is talking more about the really top end stuff though?
Where do you think it will end Aldous?
Thanks again for this great series of posts!
Cheers
TC
dopamine said:
Really great service you provide Aldous - thanks!
I have contacted you privately previously, but following on to that email I thought others on here might be interested in my experience.
I have a RHD Grigio Silverstone F430 Manual, CCMs, black daytona interior, carbon driving zone, FFSH and all is in good order. I was lucky and bought a good one and thus far, except two engine mounts needing replacing and 8 Hill Engineering ball joints the car has cost me nothing... I have had other marques over the years and can say with conviction this one is the most reliable sports car I have owned to date.
I paid £73k for mine 15 months ago - averaging off the elements you track I get a value today of £90335.50 - I can't believe that such an increase has happened, especially as I have added 9000 miles onto mine! Amazing timing!
I read Tom Hartleys interview in the paper over the weekend and he seems to think the market is about to crash by 20% - I'm guessing he is talking more about the really top end stuff though?
Where do you think it will end Aldous?
Thanks again for this great series of posts!
Cheers
TC
Thank you for the kind comments. It sounds like you have a very desirable car in the exclusive Grigio Silverstone (the connoisseurs choice). It goes to show that if you buy well then these cars aren't that bad to run at all.I have contacted you privately previously, but following on to that email I thought others on here might be interested in my experience.
I have a RHD Grigio Silverstone F430 Manual, CCMs, black daytona interior, carbon driving zone, FFSH and all is in good order. I was lucky and bought a good one and thus far, except two engine mounts needing replacing and 8 Hill Engineering ball joints the car has cost me nothing... I have had other marques over the years and can say with conviction this one is the most reliable sports car I have owned to date.
I paid £73k for mine 15 months ago - averaging off the elements you track I get a value today of £90335.50 - I can't believe that such an increase has happened, especially as I have added 9000 miles onto mine! Amazing timing!
I read Tom Hartleys interview in the paper over the weekend and he seems to think the market is about to crash by 20% - I'm guessing he is talking more about the really top end stuff though?
Where do you think it will end Aldous?
Thanks again for this great series of posts!
Cheers
TC
I try not to get involved with predicting the future but firmly believe that Ferrari values (and that of other similar marques) are driven by the worldwide economic climate. At the moment money is cheap to borrow and doesn't provide much of a return when in the bank - this has driven the interest in alternative investments, including cars. At our end of the market it means people are spending their money on luxury goods such as F430s.
The next key events for me will be when the FOMC (and to a lesser extent but more local to home, the BOE) raise interest rates. The rise in USD interest rates is predicted to have ramifications all around the world which may temper demand for luxury goods. It will be interesting to watch top end auction results once interest rates have gone up.
red_duke said:
Surely any increase in interest rates will be minimal so as not to derail the economic recovery. In which case demand for Ferraris will be undiminished.
If the FOMC raise interest rates it isn't just going to impact the USA. Companies around the world are carrying trillions in real and synthetic USD denominated debt - just because the USA can stomach a rate rise it doesn't mean that these companies can (as they operate in completely different territories).A rise in western interest rates could be real bad news for other economies around the world.
All interesting stuff. My guess is F430 owners (or like me, with a 360) have been in the more 'stable' camp with regard to price increases. We all know they've risen but not two/three fold like we've seen with some other models. If a downturn does happen it'll be more interesting to see what happens to the 3x8, Dino, TR etc...
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