F430 Market Watch
Discussion
simonr100 said:
This thread is based on asking prices not sale prices so needs to be taken with a pinch of salt..... Of course it's an indication of advertised prices but these can vary massively from sold prices. Maybe asking prices are up 5% over the last few months but sale prices are down 2%.... We just don't have the information to tell.
Many dealers are sale or return so have no outlay and are happy to advertise at any price and a deal can be done when an offer is made.
Maybe prices increase, maybe they fall.
Good luck to all who buy to drive and not to invest!
personally I am waiting for the bubble to burst so I can buy at more normal prices
I think you're wrong on the pinch of salt comment. We're all aware that the data reflects advertised prices, and it has been from the start. The trend is thus valid and can reasonably be applied to the purchase price of your car, providing of course you have looked after it and preserved it's value. To make that real, I bought my 2005 Grigio F430 in 2014 for low 70's - I managed to negotiate around 2k off the advertised price. The index has risen around 25% since then so it theoretically I put it up for sale I could add 20% to my purchase price and my car wouldn't be out of place in the market. Yes, I would need to consider offers, but I could do so with the knowledge of what else is available in the market. You're not going to knock me down too far. Voicey has always supplied his data as an indication of trends in the market and that is exactly what it does. If you are so certain it should be taken lightly then why are you waiting for prices to normalise, why not go out and buy the one you want now?Many dealers are sale or return so have no outlay and are happy to advertise at any price and a deal can be done when an offer is made.
Maybe prices increase, maybe they fall.
Good luck to all who buy to drive and not to invest!
personally I am waiting for the bubble to burst so I can buy at more normal prices
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 2nd June 23:24
Not trying to be confrontational at all but I think you are out on three counts. One, the data is a good reflection of what is happening in the market. Two, while I believe there will be a price correction at the top of the market I don't think we'll see a correction back to 2014 levels. I think that boat has sailed - there are just so many more buyers in the market nowadays coupled to the increase in entry level prices for new supercars. And thirdly, it is possible to both invest in and drive these cars, to be both an enthusiast and a collector. In fact I would argue that most people who buy a Ferrari, with it's rich history and passionate following, fall into this group.
red_duke said:
There's a weird twist in Voicey's stats. CCM brakes seem to be at a £10k premium over steel ones again. Perhaps the possibility of CCM rotor refurbishment by Sicom is making these more attractive now?
That was the primary reason I bought a CCM car - I wanted the brakes but at first I would not stomach a £12k bill when they wear out - so before doing the research into alternative replacement options I was sure I wanted a non-CCM car. I looked into it and found the option for re-coating the discs via sicom or buy a CCM car and put steel rotors on and return the carbons when I sell (popular in the US and Europe with Scud owners that track their cars). Once I realised there are cost effective alternatives, CCM seemed a bargain - much better brakes, less un-sprung weight for 'no' additional cost in the market place at the time.Knowing what I know now, I would pay a premium for them and it seems the market is starting to agree.
simonr100 said:
This thread is based on asking prices not sale prices so needs to be taken with a pinch of salt..... Of course it's an indication of advertised prices but these can vary massively from sold prices. Maybe asking prices are up 5% over the last few months but sale prices are down 2%.... We just don't have the information to tell.
Many dealers are sale or return so have no outlay and are happy to advertise at any price and a deal can be done when an offer is made.
Maybe prices increase, maybe they fall.
Good luck to all who buy to drive and not to invest!
personally I am waiting for the bubble to burst so I can buy at more normal prices
I didn't really buy mine as an investment, but I did see it as a 'bargain' - when you look at the new entry-level prices for the 488, Hurcan, 540/570 they are multiples of the cost of a used 430. heck, even a bogo 911 4S is over £100k now.Many dealers are sale or return so have no outlay and are happy to advertise at any price and a deal can be done when an offer is made.
Maybe prices increase, maybe they fall.
Good luck to all who buy to drive and not to invest!
personally I am waiting for the bubble to burst so I can buy at more normal prices
Edited by simonr100 on Thursday 2nd June 23:24
The 430 looks 'cheap' to me - any Ferrari is pretty special, and being able to buy one for the price of a Nissan gtr seems like a deal to me. I can't see them dropping significantly. They might be quite expensive, but in comparison to where the sportcars market is for new metal, they are cheap. On a side note, I do think the 911 market has gone mental - I looked GT3's when I was looking for 430s, I reaslise a GT3 might *whisper* be better to drive, but nowhere near as 'special' to own IMHO and yet the GT3s were significantly more expensive... anyway...
I do regret not buying one in 2013/14 when they were conspicuously cheap. A bit like the £35k 550s and £30k testarossas, yes they are quite expensive now, but I think that's only because they were very cheap before. I hesitated on a £100k scud... ah, what might have been!
I fear waiting for a price 'correction' may be like waiting for the London property market to 'correct'...
if the world implodes, plenty of owners such as myself will probably just keep the cars since a fancy audi is almost the same price these days. The mid-higher end I think is where prices might correct due to an increase in supply - stuff around the £170-200k mark. ultra expensive stuff is owned by people on another financial planet so unlikely to ever be a fire-sale bargain.
I might be completely wrong and values start to tank, but if I am, I will just do 1,000's of miles in my worthless 430
markst said:
As someone who actually put their manual 430 spider up for sale a month ago perhaps I am in a better position to give some feedback..
I had some truly amazing trade bids and was REALLY tempted to cash in
There's lots of talk on here about advertised prices, achieved prices, etc..... and while markst states above, that he feels he is better placed to comment, I feel I can also probably add further to that.I had some truly amazing trade bids and was REALLY tempted to cash in
Firstly, let me be absolutely clear, I'm not criticising markst's comments at all, he is very knowledgable and has provided some excellent information on this forum over the years..... In his above reply he makes reference to "some truly amazing trade bids", which kind of suggests he didn't receive any amazing retail bids - Like markst, I also recently advertised my manual F430 spider, a beautiful, unmarked, immaculate Rosso Corsa / Creme example, with 21k miles on the clock (you may have seen it on autotrader £129,950).
So I'll give you some real facts and make of these what you will..... The car I sold had full main dealer service history (serviced every year without fail), it had a new clutch, new MK 2 manifolds and 4 new tyres, all within the last 1,000 miles, as well as 1 full years Ferrari warranty remaining - it really was a perfect, unmarked example. It was up for sale for around 4 weeks and during this time I received the grand total of 2 phone calls..... Yes that's right, just 2 phone calls!!!
One was from a gentlemen who asked me a couple of questions and then said he'd be in touch when he'd returned from the middle east (I never heard from him again), the other caller bought the car, (£115k)...... but that was it, not a single further call.
So from my experience, people aren't exactly fighting to buy these cars. I paid £85k 12 months earlier, so was happy with the deal.
I'm not saying prices are unrealistic and I do think the guy who bought my car got a great deal, it really was a beautiful example, but make of my experience what you will.
Edited by allister on Saturday 4th June 00:57
allister said:
markst said:
As someone who actually put their manual 430 spider up for sale a month ago perhaps I am in a better position to give some feedback..
I had some truly amazing trade bids and was REALLY tempted to cash in
There's lots of talk on here about advertised prices, achieved prices, etc..... and while markst states above, that he feels he is better placed to comment, I feel I can also probably add further to that.I had some truly amazing trade bids and was REALLY tempted to cash in
Firstly, let me be absolutely clear, I'm not criticising markst's comments at all, he is very knowledgable and has provided some excellent information on this forum over the years..... In his above reply he makes reference to "some truly amazing trade bids", which kind of suggests he didn't receive any amazing retail bids - Like markst, I also recently advertised my manual F430 spider, a beautiful, unmarked, immaculate Rosso Corsa / Creme example, with 21k miles on the clock (you may have seen it on autotrader £129,950).
So I'll give you some real facts and make of these what you will..... The car I sold had full main dealer service history (serviced every year without fail), it had a new clutch, new MK 2 manifolds and 4 new tyres, all within the last 1,000 miles, as well as 1 full years Ferrari warranty remaining - it really was a perfect, unmarked example. It was up for sale for around 4 weeks and during this time I received the grand total of 2 phone calls..... Yes that's right, just 2 phone calls!!!
One was from a gentlemen who asked me a couple of questions and then said he'd be in touch when he'd returned from the middle east (I never heard from him again), the other caller bought the car, (£115k)...... but that was it, not a single further call.
So from my experience, people aren't exactly fighting to buy these cars. I paid £85k 12 months earlier, so was happy with the deal.
I'm not saying prices are unrealistic and I do think the guy who bought my car got a great deal, it really was a beautiful example, but make of my experience what you will.
Edited by allister on Saturday 4th June 00:57
roygarth said:
Your buyer was a better negotiator than you. You're not alone….I am hopeless seller and always get haggled down too far! So I made decision a long time ago to always sell on consignment via well established marque specialists. Their commission is more than made up for by the higher selling price. As a private seller you will always get less callers as most potential buyers will not entertain buying this type of car privately.
I don't disagree with what Allister says either............however I did have 2 trade bids at over 115k - cash( plus a few others , 110, 112, 113). plus a few private buyers. so that's where the market is right now for a non red one.In the end I decided not to sell, purely because I wanted to keep the car and to prize it out of my hands would have been a bid of 120, as my enjoyment from the car outweighs the money to be honest.
Edited by markst on Saturday 4th June 12:09
roygarth said:
Your buyer was a better negotiator than you. You're not alone….I am hopeless seller and always get haggled down too far! So I made decision a long time ago to always sell on consignment via well established marque specialists. Their commission is more than made up for by the higher selling price. As a private seller you will always get less callers as most potential buyers will not entertain buying this type of car privately.
I think you're right, you probably do get fewer calls as a private seller.... Also, the reality is that when you go over the £100k mark, many people do need some kind of finance, so I agree, you may well get more enquiries if selling via a dealer.That said, I did expect the number of enquiries to be greater, even if it was only people making silly offers.... The car just didn't seem to generate the level of interest I expected.
I guess the car could be worth slightly more, but I was happy with a £30k profit in just 12 months and I had a great time with the car.
If the guy who bought it got a good deal then I think that's great, everybody's happy.
markst said:
I don't disagree with what Allister says either............however I did have 2 trade bids at over 115k - cash( plus a few others , 110, 112, 113). plus a few private buyers. so that's where the market is right now for a non red one.
£115k Trade Bid would put Trade Retail at what, £135k/£140k? Edited by markst on Saturday 4th June 12:09
roygarth said:
£115k Trade Bid would put Trade Retail at what, £135k/£140k?
actually I can confirm I have SOLD ! The car was purchased for a private collection.......
and nice to see pricing are dropping - which in this overheated market , hopefully means I have cashed in at the right time !
SlartiF430 said:
It's nice that values go up. However, unless you're in the car business you shouldn't care. Instead, focus on what you do for a living and make more so you can cover the depreciation that comes of putting miles on the clock. That's my view anyway.
Seems to me that a lot of Ferrari owners are too busy working and don't have enough time to drive them!
This will be a quick update as I'm being nagged to get off the computer and will be at Dunsfold all weekend...
For 360 prices please head over to my blog: https://aldousvoice.com/2016/07/01/ferrari-360-mar...
Average F430 asking prices have increased 0.54% over the last month. The price index now stands at 124.12.
Although aksing prices appear to have risen, my opinion is that we could be at a peak (and this view was formed well before Brexit). Specialist dealers are becoming wary of holding stock so their bid-offer spread has widened (to take into account of any price falls that may occur whilst the car is on the forecourt). Non-specialist dealers are paying strong money for less than perfect cars (both 360 and F430). For me these two things could signal the peak is near – those that know the market are pulling back whilst those who don’t are jumping in with both feet.
A note on Brexit: My opinion is that this will apply pressure to values in the near term. One of the factors that has driven the upwards rise in the market has been the interest in cars as an alternative investment. In times of uncertainty most cash takes a flight to quality and certainty. This alone will dampen demand. If the UK does start to slow down then those people who have “invested” in a Ferrari may wish/need to exit their purchase and could need to discount their asking price to do so. You only need to look at Porsche 991 GT3 RS prices to see what one or two “cheap” cars can do to the overall market.
For 360 prices please head over to my blog: https://aldousvoice.com/2016/07/01/ferrari-360-mar...
Average F430 asking prices have increased 0.54% over the last month. The price index now stands at 124.12.
Although aksing prices appear to have risen, my opinion is that we could be at a peak (and this view was formed well before Brexit). Specialist dealers are becoming wary of holding stock so their bid-offer spread has widened (to take into account of any price falls that may occur whilst the car is on the forecourt). Non-specialist dealers are paying strong money for less than perfect cars (both 360 and F430). For me these two things could signal the peak is near – those that know the market are pulling back whilst those who don’t are jumping in with both feet.
A note on Brexit: My opinion is that this will apply pressure to values in the near term. One of the factors that has driven the upwards rise in the market has been the interest in cars as an alternative investment. In times of uncertainty most cash takes a flight to quality and certainty. This alone will dampen demand. If the UK does start to slow down then those people who have “invested” in a Ferrari may wish/need to exit their purchase and could need to discount their asking price to do so. You only need to look at Porsche 991 GT3 RS prices to see what one or two “cheap” cars can do to the overall market.
So much for Brexit being a non-event. I should've waited 3 weeks before buying the F430 Spider with carbon seats and brakes. But then I'd have missed our 2 weeks of summer! Probably a better investment than bank/commercial property shares over the past week too.
Edited by FunkyMunky71 on Wednesday 6th July 21:39
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