F430 Market Watch
Discussion
bordseye said:
Its a pity that there is no way to get real data on actual sales ie how many of thosem that disappear off the list have actually changed hands and how many have simply been taken off the market. Certainly in the second hand yacht market that I am much more familiar with, a good half of the boats withdrawn from sale have not been sold. And of those that have been sold there is a definite skew towards the more aggressively priced ones.
Left wondering if the price increase is down to the cheaper cars moving whilst the more expensive ones are being put up for sale at the beginning of the season.
By its very nature the more aggressively / cheaper/realistic ( owners needing/wanting to sell )priced cars will sell and those higher speculative ( owners not needing or really wanting to sell )priced cars will remain so the price index will go up which may be against the trend of the cars that are actually selling.Left wondering if the price increase is down to the cheaper cars moving whilst the more expensive ones are being put up for sale at the beginning of the season.
If everyone is holding out for a higher price and the demand is there and the market can stand it then fair play but I do feel there is a bigger gap now than ever between advertised price and sale price.
When I traded my f430 f1 Spider 4 years ago there was a £15k spread between trade bid and retail asking. looking at some asking prices today I just cant see dealers paying that strong a money for them at trade. Holding times have gone up and sales slowed so this risk is being factored into the trade bid
If a car's going to sell it usually sells quickly so long as its priced correctly.
People often think "I'll try it at a high price for a month or two and if it doesn't sell I'll drop the price"
The problem with this strategy is that real buyers see that its not selling and are then wary of it. Likewise when you see the price has been dropped you don't think 'bargain' you think 'problem' and shy away from it.
Better to price it sensibly in the first place IMO
People often think "I'll try it at a high price for a month or two and if it doesn't sell I'll drop the price"
The problem with this strategy is that real buyers see that its not selling and are then wary of it. Likewise when you see the price has been dropped you don't think 'bargain' you think 'problem' and shy away from it.
Better to price it sensibly in the first place IMO
For the latest on 360 prices please head over here (please note that, despite it being in breach of the new posting rules, I have specific approval to link back to my website on this thread).
Average F430 asking prices have come off a little, down 0.75% over the last month leaving the price index at 130.01.
Market conditions remain tough for vendors unless they are selling a manual, in which case the buyers are out there. It's not really applicable to the F430 market, but bottom end crap is really bid up at the moment with people prepared to pay a premium for a perceived bargain. The papers seem to think that Article 50 will be triggered in the next few weeks - this is a good thing in that we move closer to ending the current shroud of uncertainty that is hanging over UK markets.
Two things have cheered me up over the last few days, firstly the weather is much improved (which should bring a few buyers out of the woodwork). I also noticed that I bought my own F430 in Nov 2013 - right at the low point on the chart which gives me a theoretical 35% gain. Much better than most of the dogs that make up my share portfolio...
Average F430 asking prices have come off a little, down 0.75% over the last month leaving the price index at 130.01.
Market conditions remain tough for vendors unless they are selling a manual, in which case the buyers are out there. It's not really applicable to the F430 market, but bottom end crap is really bid up at the moment with people prepared to pay a premium for a perceived bargain. The papers seem to think that Article 50 will be triggered in the next few weeks - this is a good thing in that we move closer to ending the current shroud of uncertainty that is hanging over UK markets.
Two things have cheered me up over the last few days, firstly the weather is much improved (which should bring a few buyers out of the woodwork). I also noticed that I bought my own F430 in Nov 2013 - right at the low point on the chart which gives me a theoretical 35% gain. Much better than most of the dogs that make up my share portfolio...
Edited by voicey on Thursday 2nd March 13:54
Voicey, many thanks for another month's update. It is very much appreciated, especially as I'm looking at taking the plunge on a 430 (F1 coupe, can't stretch to a manual). It doesn't look like the graphs/images have been updated for this month; they appear to be the same URLs as Feb (and no March 2017 dip on the end of the first graph).
Any thoughts by anyone on the likelihood of continued price increases for the F1 model would be welcomed, as I'm a slightly nervous first-time buyer for this level of machinery. Apologies if this is the wrong place for such a question.
Paul
Any thoughts by anyone on the likelihood of continued price increases for the F1 model would be welcomed, as I'm a slightly nervous first-time buyer for this level of machinery. Apologies if this is the wrong place for such a question.
Paul
PabloF said:
Voicey, many thanks for another month's update. It is very much appreciated, especially as I'm looking at taking the plunge on a 430 (F1 coupe, can't stretch to a manual). It doesn't look like the graphs/images have been updated for this month; they appear to be the same URLs as Feb (and no March 2017 dip on the end of the first graph).
Any thoughts by anyone on the likelihood of continued price increases for the F1 model would be welcomed, as I'm a slightly nervous first-time buyer for this level of machinery. Apologies if this is the wrong place for such a question.
Paul
Images have been fixed - thanks for pointing it out.Any thoughts by anyone on the likelihood of continued price increases for the F1 model would be welcomed, as I'm a slightly nervous first-time buyer for this level of machinery. Apologies if this is the wrong place for such a question.
Paul
You are correct to split the F1 and manual models - they are totally separate markets now. One way of predicting the future is to look at how previous generations of mid engine V8s have performed.
However I would prefer to frame any future price rises in the context of the overall conditions in the UK. The performance of any (non-collectible) RHD Ferrari is inextricably linked to how our economy is doing. And we won't know how that's going to go until the current uncertainty over Brexit is resolved. I guess buying any kind of "investment" type car is a punt on the UK economy, albeit that a Ferrari has some sort of intrinsic value which should limit the downside.
Another way of looking at the F430 is that it is the last V8 Ferrari with an automated dry clutch. Although the double wet clutch systems are faster and smoother, nothing compares to the punch in the back when changing gears at 8,500 rpm with your right foot to the floor...
Thanks Voicey for the image updates. I hadn't thought of the dry clutch -- a good point. Hopefully the future market will view the F430 as more organic in the looks department too compared to its successor. I'm assuming the 458 will be a major limiting factor in the possible price increases of the 430. Hopefully the future appeal of the F1 430 will be the organic look and feel compared to the 458's cutting-edge aerodynamically-optimised looks and the smooth drivetrain you mention. I'm not sure the 458 will look as good in 10 years from now as the 430 will.
I'm going to declare with immediate effect that I am an F430 spider F1 owner so take my 2 peneth with a pinch of salt!! however, in my view the 430 is undervalued regardless of UK politics/economy, you only have to look at 360 prices and then view the 458 prices which I have as I'm considering a 458, my conclusion from the figures published is that the 360 is clipping the heels of the 430 in terms of price, yet the 458 is £50k plus away from 430 average asking price making the jump to a 458 a rather large one.
dvb247 said:
I'm going to declare with immediate effect that I am an F430 spider F1 owner so take my 2 peneth with a pinch of salt!! however, in my view the 430 is undervalued regardless of UK politics/economy, you only have to look at 360 prices and then view the 458 prices which I have as I'm considering a 458, my conclusion from the figures published is that the 360 is clipping the heels of the 430 in terms of price, yet the 458 is £50k plus away from 430 average asking price making the jump to a 458 a rather large one.
Really undervalued ???? I would suggest most Ferrari prices currently couldn't be any stronger.I sold a late 2009 F430 F1 Spider with 10,000 miles and with every conceivable extra inc challenge rear grill and carbon fibre racing seats 3 years ago for £85k and the same car today mileage adjusted to say 20,000 miles would probably sell for £115k which is what I paid for it in 2010 with 4,000 miles on the clock.
I would say that is a meteoric rise and one that could not be sustained any further. In fact quite the reverse the only way is not Essex, but down IMHO. Good luck if you have bought at the peak and there is a price correction
RamboLambo said:
.......the same car today mileage adjusted to say 20,000 miles would probably sell for £115k.......
eh? you do realise Rambo what this thread is all about?If you look just a few posts above yours you'll see a table stating average advertised prices for an F1 430 with 20k miles on the clock is just over £92k, and a graph which looks like £95/96k.
They're advertised asking prices so realised prices likely to be slightly less, not £20k more.
Voicey lives in the real world and spends a lot of time compiling the actual figures, he doesn't live in RamboLamboLand....
Nano2nd said:
what is it with Mclaren owners continually talking down Ferrari values? surely your efforts would be best spent talking up Mclaren values... oh wait..
You're confusing Rambo Lambo with a typical McLaren owner, don't fall into that very deep trap! Its like confusing Ricky Gervais with rock stars ;-)Edited by Bispal on Monday 6th March 07:26
red_slr said:
355 for March 1st
LHD -1%
RHD +1%
Quite a few cars around the £100-£110k mark sold (or removed from sale) this last 4 weeks. (about half a dozen)
How do you work that out when the £ has lost around 20% against the euro and any LHD buyer can sell his/her car in Germany / France etc. where it will suddenly be a lot more affordable due to the drop in the £..?LHD -1%
RHD +1%
Quite a few cars around the £100-£110k mark sold (or removed from sale) this last 4 weeks. (about half a dozen)
Bispal said:
red_slr said:
355 for March 1st
LHD -1%
RHD +1%
Quite a few cars around the £100-£110k mark sold (or removed from sale) this last 4 weeks. (about half a dozen)
How do you work that out when the £ has lost around 20% against the euro and any LHD buyer can sell his/her car in Germany / France etc. where it will suddenly be a lot more affordable due to the drop in the £..?LHD -1%
RHD +1%
Quite a few cars around the £100-£110k mark sold (or removed from sale) this last 4 weeks. (about half a dozen)
Stats are based on advertised prices of cars located within the UK.
:/
To be fair, if Ferrari prices correct and dip in the future, most everything else will dip with them, including McLarens. Ferrari really is the bellwether of UK and US supercar and sportscar pricing. Where it goes, the rest follow (usually). Best just to buy the car you want and enjoy it. Cars are rarely investments, once all costs have been taken into account.
Yipper said:
To be fair, if Ferrari prices correct and dip in the future, most everything else will dip with them, including McLarens. Ferrari really is the bellwether of UK and US supercar and sportscar pricing. Where it goes, the rest follow (usually). Best just to buy the car you want and enjoy it. Cars are rarely investments, once all costs have been taken into account.
With you on that. If I can cover the service and upkeep with price rises then great. If not, oh well.I don't plan selling my car any time soon either so it does not matter really. I just need to make sure the wife does not see the bills!!
As for the bubble bursting, part of me hopes it does as I would love to buy another car but given current prices they are out of reach. A 612 perhaps. I think they are going to be quite rare items in another 30-40 years.
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