Challenge Stradale hits £200k
Discussion
TISPKJ said:
If any Swiss car came to the UK it would be liable as said for 20% vat.
It may have had tax paid in swissy but not the EU.
Your right euro cars are still a bargain but yours in the UK would cost about £105k plus the dreaded light saga unless you can find a nice MOT man.
Still very cheap comparitavly.
There is no dreaded light saga as they adjust.It may have had tax paid in swissy but not the EU.
Your right euro cars are still a bargain but yours in the UK would cost about £105k plus the dreaded light saga unless you can find a nice MOT man.
Still very cheap comparitavly.
richardmeaks said:
With respect though, totally over simplistic analysis. You forget that VAT at 20% would be payable on most of those cars from outside the EEC and that most of those cars aren't ultra low mileage like the UK car.
That wasn't entirely the point. The point was that to buy a Strad if your home market is anywhere other than the UK they are half the price. However, if you want to compare like with like the German car at 129,000 Euros is very similar mileage and within the EU, so no VAT to pay and you are paying nearly twice as much just to sit on a different side of the car.Jonathan
Jules360 said:
I believe that if I have owned a car abroad for at least 6 months and upon returning to the UK keep it for 12 months, then it's not liable for VAT. Although I might be wrong.
If vat hasn't ever been paid on that car in any EU Country, it will be payable as soon as it is brought into the UK.Edited by Jules360 on Sunday 13th April 12:31
As to 'people really want a CS' I think that a lot of people buying these cars now and for the last year have bought them because they believe they will appreciate, not because they really 'want' one.
If DK can sell a decent lhd for £115k, why pay upwards of £160k for the same mileage car in RHD if you 'really want one'?
The UK prices have been talked up, just as they were for F40s in the 1990s. And we all know what happened to F40 prices when the bubble burst. I'd think twice before stumping up big money for a CS. But that's just me (or is it?)
roygarth said:
TISPKJ said:
If any Swiss car came to the UK it would be liable as said for 20% vat.
It may have had tax paid in swissy but not the EU.
Your right euro cars are still a bargain but yours in the UK would cost about £105k plus the dreaded light saga unless you can find a nice MOT man.
Still very cheap comparitavly.
There is no dreaded light saga as they adjust.It may have had tax paid in swissy but not the EU.
Your right euro cars are still a bargain but yours in the UK would cost about £105k plus the dreaded light saga unless you can find a nice MOT man.
Still very cheap comparitavly.
rubystone said:
Jules360 said:
I believe that if I have owned a car abroad for at least 6 months and upon returning to the UK keep it for 12 months, then it's not liable for VAT. Although I might be wrong.
If vat hasn't ever been paid on that car in any EU Country, it will be payable as soon as it is brought into the UK.Edited by Jules360 on Sunday 13th April 12:31
rubystone said:
If DK can sell a decent lhd for £115k, why pay upwards of £160k for the same mileage car in RHD if you 'really want one'?
Easy, people really want a RHD! It's market forces at work. The CS isn't the only model that's gone up considerably. Is it a bubble? Who knows, but we're still a long way from the 1989/1990 £1m F40, or the £400,000 CS for that matter. ThreesixtyM said:
Easy, people really want a RHD! It's market forces at work. The CS isn't the only model that's gone up considerably. Is it a bubble? Who knows, but we're still a long way from the 1989/1990 £1m F40, or the £400,000 CS for that matter.
Would be interesting to see how many RHD cars have gone to oz or HK. That would give us a clue as to whether it's a UK thing or more widespread. Evidence suggests that lhd markets value the cars much lower.montpellier said:
Odd that its short of the FIA roll bar? In amongst the madness I think the cars with roll bar, fixed windows, harness, fire, stripe i.e. basically a racing car will be worth the most of all.Two types of Stradale buyer out there as I think one buyer is looking for mint high spec car for collection and the other is looking to use it.
Ten years on its a lovely car still.
The Euro v UK prices is definitely an interesting topic. When I bought my UK car, it was well below £100k and I was able to negotiate a deal because the dealer had had three for quite a while. As soon as I bought mine, he sold the other two and then within 6 months the prices were beginning to go. When they went, they went quickly.
That can only mean that both demand and supply were changing at the same time. So, simultaneously people realising that the Strad was going to become a significant car and the number of people owning one and wanting to move on to something else was drying up.
There is definitely something about a Strad, I totally get it. I have been driving my 12C quite a lot and that is a fabulous car. You get amazing performance, chassis feel, handling, usability. It's like all the good bits of a Strad without the compromises.
Over the weekend I took the Strad out for a while. At first, the cabin noise, the handling, the care needed over potholes etc. was a little disconcerting compared with the 12C. But then it sort of 'clicks' and you get into the way it wants to be driven. It is a very very involving car with tremendous feel in the steering and chassis. I recently bought a 997 GTS. Both the 12C and the Strad have more overall feel, which I am surprised about.
When I parked the car and got out, looking back was irresistible. Wow! That rear three quarter look, with the low stance, the car is just so so beautiful. Much nicer than a scud, nicer than a 458 and nicer than a Speciale. My conclusion is that the car is more compromised than its successors, but it's that very point that makes it so desirable. The raw feeling makes the car feel so pure and the CS idea was to become a staple in the Ferrari range....but the CS was first and arguably the most flawed and the most perfect at the same time.
It's from another age now but it is a significant car and one that, in my view, was easy to predict would grow in value, which is partly why I bought one.
The slightly confusing thing, though is the Euro car prices. If it is collectors who are buying a CS to put away, why go for low mileage RHD cars? It is clear that RHD cars are in shorter supply, but collectors are usually pretty smart. So, is it really collectors driving the RHD market? Surely the RHD car only makes sense to someone who wants to own and drive one in the UK?
Or, does the collector market work in a localised way, i.e. except for Ralph Lauren and his type, there are many people who collect cars for their own personal satisfaction, buying RHD cars like the ones they have driven their whole lives and plan to sell them, or not, in the UK again? That has never been my understanding but why do people believe it is collectors who are driving UK prices when they could just as easily buy a European example to gather dust with?
Others who have posted adverts for cheaper Euro cars have often been met with the reply from people who have looked at them, that these cars are in poorer condition, have had fairly major repair work etc. Even though I am sure there is a lot of truth in this, it wouldn't apply to all cars. I am sure UK owners tend to be more exacting because the resale market requires it.
I can tell you for a fact, that to keep a Strad in mint condition is not cheap. There are plenty of ways a car's maintenance can be shortcut and as a general point I think buyers should be careful.
That can only mean that both demand and supply were changing at the same time. So, simultaneously people realising that the Strad was going to become a significant car and the number of people owning one and wanting to move on to something else was drying up.
There is definitely something about a Strad, I totally get it. I have been driving my 12C quite a lot and that is a fabulous car. You get amazing performance, chassis feel, handling, usability. It's like all the good bits of a Strad without the compromises.
Over the weekend I took the Strad out for a while. At first, the cabin noise, the handling, the care needed over potholes etc. was a little disconcerting compared with the 12C. But then it sort of 'clicks' and you get into the way it wants to be driven. It is a very very involving car with tremendous feel in the steering and chassis. I recently bought a 997 GTS. Both the 12C and the Strad have more overall feel, which I am surprised about.
When I parked the car and got out, looking back was irresistible. Wow! That rear three quarter look, with the low stance, the car is just so so beautiful. Much nicer than a scud, nicer than a 458 and nicer than a Speciale. My conclusion is that the car is more compromised than its successors, but it's that very point that makes it so desirable. The raw feeling makes the car feel so pure and the CS idea was to become a staple in the Ferrari range....but the CS was first and arguably the most flawed and the most perfect at the same time.
It's from another age now but it is a significant car and one that, in my view, was easy to predict would grow in value, which is partly why I bought one.
The slightly confusing thing, though is the Euro car prices. If it is collectors who are buying a CS to put away, why go for low mileage RHD cars? It is clear that RHD cars are in shorter supply, but collectors are usually pretty smart. So, is it really collectors driving the RHD market? Surely the RHD car only makes sense to someone who wants to own and drive one in the UK?
Or, does the collector market work in a localised way, i.e. except for Ralph Lauren and his type, there are many people who collect cars for their own personal satisfaction, buying RHD cars like the ones they have driven their whole lives and plan to sell them, or not, in the UK again? That has never been my understanding but why do people believe it is collectors who are driving UK prices when they could just as easily buy a European example to gather dust with?
Others who have posted adverts for cheaper Euro cars have often been met with the reply from people who have looked at them, that these cars are in poorer condition, have had fairly major repair work etc. Even though I am sure there is a lot of truth in this, it wouldn't apply to all cars. I am sure UK owners tend to be more exacting because the resale market requires it.
I can tell you for a fact, that to keep a Strad in mint condition is not cheap. There are plenty of ways a car's maintenance can be shortcut and as a general point I think buyers should be careful.
Edited by LukeyLikey on Monday 14th April 09:01
"The slightly confusing thing, though is the Euro car prices. If it is collectors who are buying a CS to put away, why go for low mileage RHD cars? It is clear that RHD cars are in shorter supply, but collectors are usually pretty smart. So, is it really collectors driving the RHD market? Surely the RHD car only makes sense to someone who wants to own and drive one in the UK? "
It's this statement that I think should act as a warning to anyone thinking about speculating on an RHD the car.
I compare it to the 964RS I bought. The prices on these were heavily skewed in favour of RHD back in 1998 when I bought mine. This was because of relative numbers built (around 2000 LHD and 80 RHD). I bought LHD because I couldn't afford RHD but nowadays, it seems that RHD and LHD are both expensive cars (has the gap narrowed on prices in that market I wonder).
So, 15 years later, I'd still be happy with my LHD car and if I wanted to own a CS I'd go LHD given the current delta (and because I personally think that around £100k is a sensible figure for one of these)
If anyone wants to do a deal on my Vetro for a CS in LHD or RHD, let me know though....I am a fan of them....
It's this statement that I think should act as a warning to anyone thinking about speculating on an RHD the car.
I compare it to the 964RS I bought. The prices on these were heavily skewed in favour of RHD back in 1998 when I bought mine. This was because of relative numbers built (around 2000 LHD and 80 RHD). I bought LHD because I couldn't afford RHD but nowadays, it seems that RHD and LHD are both expensive cars (has the gap narrowed on prices in that market I wonder).
So, 15 years later, I'd still be happy with my LHD car and if I wanted to own a CS I'd go LHD given the current delta (and because I personally think that around £100k is a sensible figure for one of these)
If anyone wants to do a deal on my Vetro for a CS in LHD or RHD, let me know though....I am a fan of them....
rubystone said:
"The slightly confusing thing, though is the Euro car prices. If it is collectors who are buying a CS to put away, why go for low mileage RHD cars? It is clear that RHD cars are in shorter supply, but collectors are usually pretty smart. So, is it really collectors driving the RHD market? Surely the RHD car only makes sense to someone who wants to own and drive one in the UK? "
It's this statement that I think should act as a warning to anyone thinking about speculating on an RHD the car.
I compare it to the 964RS I bought. The prices on these were heavily skewed in favour of RHD back in 1998 when I bought mine. This was because of relative numbers built (around 2000 LHD and 80 RHD). I bought LHD because I couldn't afford RHD but nowadays, it seems that RHD and LHD are both expensive cars (has the gap narrowed on prices in that market I wonder).
So, 15 years later, I'd still be happy with my LHD car and if I wanted to own a CS I'd go LHD given the current delta (and because I personally think that around £100k is a sensible figure for one of these)
If anyone wants to do a deal on my Vetro for a CS in LHD or RHD, let me know though....I am a fan of them....
I was in same position 10 years ago when I bought my LHD 993RS. I sold it recently. The delta has indeed narrowed considerably - almost to nothing in fact. I think this is normal as collector/classic cars get older.It's this statement that I think should act as a warning to anyone thinking about speculating on an RHD the car.
I compare it to the 964RS I bought. The prices on these were heavily skewed in favour of RHD back in 1998 when I bought mine. This was because of relative numbers built (around 2000 LHD and 80 RHD). I bought LHD because I couldn't afford RHD but nowadays, it seems that RHD and LHD are both expensive cars (has the gap narrowed on prices in that market I wonder).
So, 15 years later, I'd still be happy with my LHD car and if I wanted to own a CS I'd go LHD given the current delta (and because I personally think that around £100k is a sensible figure for one of these)
If anyone wants to do a deal on my Vetro for a CS in LHD or RHD, let me know though....I am a fan of them....
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