Ferrari's and mileage...
Discussion
Knowing that Ferrari's can be almost prohibitively sensitive I was wondering if there ever comes a tipping point where mileage actually doesn't matter?
Example - doing 12k a year in your 458 would seemingly kill it's appeal and marketability. Going beyond the 30k miles glass celing also seems a pinch point.
However does this (daft) rule / market view apply to classic (example any of the 250's or Dinos) Ferrari's of old? Are we saying the even these old cars are low milers to maintain their appeal or are they well looked after (some like triggers broom possibly) yet because of their age mileage is no longer a factor?
Looking to Europe for cars as I have done of late it's been interesting to see the number of high miles yet seemgly good condition cars for sale. Scuderia's with 80k + miles is not unsusal and asking prices (no idea what they sell for) still seem reasonable...
Maybe all this mileage nonsense is a UK thing...
Thoughts?
Example - doing 12k a year in your 458 would seemingly kill it's appeal and marketability. Going beyond the 30k miles glass celing also seems a pinch point.
However does this (daft) rule / market view apply to classic (example any of the 250's or Dinos) Ferrari's of old? Are we saying the even these old cars are low milers to maintain their appeal or are they well looked after (some like triggers broom possibly) yet because of their age mileage is no longer a factor?
Looking to Europe for cars as I have done of late it's been interesting to see the number of high miles yet seemgly good condition cars for sale. Scuderia's with 80k + miles is not unsusal and asking prices (no idea what they sell for) still seem reasonable...
Maybe all this mileage nonsense is a UK thing...
Thoughts?
To be honest, most of it's b
ks as we've all seen in the past, certainly for 'normal' models as opposed to the very collectible ones. The glass ceiling rears its ugly head all too often but what's better for example - a late 90's 355/early 2000's 360 that's covered a couple of thousand a year with a good service record (e.g. 2000mi between maintenance) or a car that covered 6000pa for two years then spent ten years hardly moving. The latter example being considered the premium car because of its low mileage. I'd take either of the former examples as well cared for cars any day of the week.
ks as we've all seen in the past, certainly for 'normal' models as opposed to the very collectible ones. The glass ceiling rears its ugly head all too often but what's better for example - a late 90's 355/early 2000's 360 that's covered a couple of thousand a year with a good service record (e.g. 2000mi between maintenance) or a car that covered 6000pa for two years then spent ten years hardly moving. The latter example being considered the premium car because of its low mileage. I'd take either of the former examples as well cared for cars any day of the week.I reckon the mileage stigma is linked to availability. While low mileage examples exist in the market place higher mileage cars will be left on the shelf. As soon as the supply starts drying up people won't be so fussed about mileage. Availability is the tipping point not mileage itself.
I think the owners in UK and the US are more mileage obsessed than in say Germany - at least judging from posts on the various forums. Sure mileage will always impact value, but based on the mileage of cars on the continent, they still seem to drive their cars more (or people in the UK just clock their cars to retain value ... it seems weird that UK 355s on average seem to remain static in terms of mileage - eg now vs when I bought mine in 2009). In the end it is just a car, at some point it will need replacement parts, an engine rebuild, a respray etc.
I do think about keeping miles down occasionally and then just think f.. it, no point in owning something and not using it. already added close to 9k km to my GT2 since end of December. averaged about 10k miles pa on my 355 for the 2.5 years I owned it. having said that, I always use these cars as daily driver, and do not own a Macan/M5/standard 911 or similar which could be used for purely getting from A to B and I do not have a family, so never need more than 2 seats.
I remember seeing the 80ish k km Scuderia, prices have increased quite a bit - last summer that would have been below 100k euros I think - must be all the brits buying up the cars .....
I have to say that at that price - ceteris paribus -, i would rather spend a little more and get one with half the mileage.
Last summer I looked at a 550 in Munich, one owner car, amazing spec - had about 260k km on the clock ... I was veryt empted to buy that and try to get to half a million km as quickly as possible .... after listeningt o vari ous people telling me that I am insane, I bottled it - was a mistake I think, should have bought that car at about 30k euros
I do think about keeping miles down occasionally and then just think f.. it, no point in owning something and not using it. already added close to 9k km to my GT2 since end of December. averaged about 10k miles pa on my 355 for the 2.5 years I owned it. having said that, I always use these cars as daily driver, and do not own a Macan/M5/standard 911 or similar which could be used for purely getting from A to B and I do not have a family, so never need more than 2 seats.
I remember seeing the 80ish k km Scuderia, prices have increased quite a bit - last summer that would have been below 100k euros I think - must be all the brits buying up the cars .....
I have to say that at that price - ceteris paribus -, i would rather spend a little more and get one with half the mileage.Last summer I looked at a 550 in Munich, one owner car, amazing spec - had about 260k km on the clock ... I was veryt empted to buy that and try to get to half a million km as quickly as possible .... after listeningt o vari ous people telling me that I am insane, I bottled it - was a mistake I think, should have bought that car at about 30k euros
Some sort of stigma that a Ferrari or Lambo or any Supercar will die and fall apart after 30,000 miles. Load of bks really, we just need more people to drive them and put miles on them and then there wont be a problem as the market will have plenty of them for sale. But that will not happen with the majority, most will get to 28,000 miles and trade it in for something with lower mileage, pay the difference plus the depreciation on the trade in and do 10K in something else, and the cycle continues.
ks really, we just need more people to drive them and put miles on them and then there wont be a problem as the market will have plenty of them for sale. But that will not happen with the majority, most will get to 28,000 miles and trade it in for something with lower mileage, pay the difference plus the depreciation on the trade in and do 10K in something else, and the cycle continues. red_duke said:
I reckon the mileage stigma is linked to availability. While low mileage examples exist in the market place higher mileage cars will be left on the shelf. As soon as the supply starts drying up people won't be so fussed about mileage. Availability is the tipping point not mileage itself.
Interesting POV and makes sense... Would also support the higher mileage older cars attracting less of the mileage stigma. All looked at on their own merrit and condition...I remeber being at Radley motors once and looking at an old 250 (forget which one) he grinned as he said to me 'you could drop this off the Eiffle Tower and it would be worth restoring, just so long as the chassis plate was still intact.'
Triggers Broom indeed!
I've just bought a 2006 F430 spider with 23k on the clock so it's only done around 3000 miles pa. I don't get this whole mileage thing as surely they are there to be used and not just to look at in the garage?
I'm planning on keeping mine for a minimum of 5 years and i'm not going to worry about the mileage and use it as it should be used. Although saying that i won't be putting huge mileage on it as i have 2 other cars i use daily but even if i did i wouldn't have sleepless nights about it!
I'm planning on keeping mine for a minimum of 5 years and i'm not going to worry about the mileage and use it as it should be used. Although saying that i won't be putting huge mileage on it as i have 2 other cars i use daily but even if i did i wouldn't have sleepless nights about it!
I don't think the value of Rowan Atkinson's F1 is adversely affected by its high mileage but on such rarities, I don't think mileage is so important or worried about. The rebuild also helped.
On a car where there are numerous example for sale, the high mileage ones will generally be considered last. I would consider that some higher mileage cars will have been better looked after than something that has done a few hundred miles a year and the lower mileage cars are normally the ones that are not been serviced every year.
On a car where there are numerous example for sale, the high mileage ones will generally be considered last. I would consider that some higher mileage cars will have been better looked after than something that has done a few hundred miles a year and the lower mileage cars are normally the ones that are not been serviced every year.
Mileage is one of those perverse things like certain options on cars where the collective groupthink is self-destructive. The only people that benefit from the climate of mileage sensitivity on these cars are dealers.
It is a strange beast - I remember when I had a Porsche my local main dealer said that PCM (nav) was essential, and sure enough it was the first thing they asked about when I pitched it back to them for a sale. Likewise when I hear Porsche saying that "over 80% of buyers specced PDK" I wonder how many of them did it because they felt obliged to, rather than because they actually wanted it.
Eventually the lines blur of course to the point where you convince yourself that you actually did want those options, or in this case not driving the car of your dreams, due to a paralysis about future resale values. Sad times indeed.
Pondering further one wonders at what point was it decided that PCM/option X was essential? There would've been a point in time, a fleeting moment of serenity, where owners didn't feel obliged to spec things they didn't want (the nav was utterly crap, though I hear it's a better now but I'm certainly it's still night and day from just a TomTom) and could sell their cars on without being bid in the balls because they neglected to option carbon cigarette lighter trim (£550). Nowadays though if you dare to drive a Ferrari past preposterously stratospheric mileage thresholds like 15k, you're embracing ruination. Well, that's what the groupthink and market seems to think anyway.
It is a strange beast - I remember when I had a Porsche my local main dealer said that PCM (nav) was essential, and sure enough it was the first thing they asked about when I pitched it back to them for a sale. Likewise when I hear Porsche saying that "over 80% of buyers specced PDK" I wonder how many of them did it because they felt obliged to, rather than because they actually wanted it.
Eventually the lines blur of course to the point where you convince yourself that you actually did want those options, or in this case not driving the car of your dreams, due to a paralysis about future resale values. Sad times indeed.
Pondering further one wonders at what point was it decided that PCM/option X was essential? There would've been a point in time, a fleeting moment of serenity, where owners didn't feel obliged to spec things they didn't want (the nav was utterly crap, though I hear it's a better now but I'm certainly it's still night and day from just a TomTom) and could sell their cars on without being bid in the balls because they neglected to option carbon cigarette lighter trim (£550). Nowadays though if you dare to drive a Ferrari past preposterously stratospheric mileage thresholds like 15k, you're embracing ruination. Well, that's what the groupthink and market seems to think anyway.
Edited by Durzel on Friday 27th March 13:37
Friend of mine bought a 355 last year with 220,000 kms on it. The car was an ex track experience one, virtually everything mechanical has been replaced over the years with bills to prove, its a fantastic, usable ferrari that runs like a swiss watch and he is never afraid to use it in anger, thats what these cars are for. I would take it over a garage queen that would have commanded double its purchase price.
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff