Ferrari Enzo for sale, recovered by the National CrimeAgency
Discussion
Something I'm struggling to understand, why have Bonhams not openly said the car has been crash repaired, in addition they state the build date on the log book is wrong, it is correct, the car is a 2003. Furthermore, and most concerning, is the car has a valid UK MOT test certificate, the lights are very clearly US Specification, which they were back in 2008/9 (I.e never changed), they have no amber insert, U.S. spec outer circle flash red...
A lot of errors in that page, and a lot of concerning statements. Being sold for NCA to raise maximum funds for the coffers, you think they would be accurate/honest, I'm really surprised by the MOT situation...
A lot of errors in that page, and a lot of concerning statements. Being sold for NCA to raise maximum funds for the coffers, you think they would be accurate/honest, I'm really surprised by the MOT situation...
Berlinetta said:
Something I'm struggling to understand, why have Bonhams not openly said the car has been crash repaired, in addition they state the build date on the log book is wrong, it is correct, the car is a 2003. Furthermore, and most concerning, is the car has a valid UK MOT test certificate, the lights are very clearly US Specification, which they were back in 2008/9 (I.e never changed), they have no amber insert, U.S. spec outer circle flash red...
A lot of errors in that page, and a lot of concerning statements. Being sold for NCA to raise maximum funds for the coffers, you think they would be accurate/honest, I'm really surprised by the MOT situation...
because it's up for auction?A lot of errors in that page, and a lot of concerning statements. Being sold for NCA to raise maximum funds for the coffers, you think they would be accurate/honest, I'm really surprised by the MOT situation...
cgt2 said:
Juber said:
Does it matter whether he or his is wife Indian? What relevance does that have to this thread? I'm confused?
No relevance, just curious, he lives in Dubai now. Seems to be some ambiguity about his nationality as well as everything else.
Berlinetta said:
Something I'm struggling to understand, why have Bonhams not openly said the car has been crash repaired, in addition they state the build date on the log book is wrong, it is correct, the car is a 2003. Furthermore, and most concerning, is the car has a valid UK MOT test certificate, the lights are very clearly US Specification, which they were back in 2008/9 (I.e never changed), they have no amber insert, U.S. spec outer circle flash red...
A lot of errors in that page, and a lot of concerning statements. Being sold for NCA to raise maximum funds for the coffers, you think they would be accurate/honest, I'm really surprised by the MOT situation...
If the car has an mot, it has an mot. It's not for Bonhams to question it. A lot of errors in that page, and a lot of concerning statements. Being sold for NCA to raise maximum funds for the coffers, you think they would be accurate/honest, I'm really surprised by the MOT situation...
How do you know that it's been crashed? If it's not in the paperwork Bonhams aren't going to know about it.
These cars are obviously priced to reflect that you might be buying a complete dog and/or a car with no history, so presume the worst and price accordingly. The market will discount to reflect that risk. Will be interesting to see what they go for.
will_ said:
If the car has an mot, it has an mot. It's not for Bonhams to question it.
How do you know that it's been crashed? If it's not in the paperwork Bonhams aren't going to know about it.
These cars are obviously priced to reflect that you might be buying a complete dog and/or a car with no history, so presume the worst and price accordingly. The market will discount to reflect that risk. Will be interesting to see what they go for.
I'm surprised that the car's history has not been listed by Bonhams. After all, they employ people solely to research these cars and if amateur PHers are able to uncover its history. Surely highly paid experts in New Bond Street ought to be able to do the same?How do you know that it's been crashed? If it's not in the paperwork Bonhams aren't going to know about it.
These cars are obviously priced to reflect that you might be buying a complete dog and/or a car with no history, so presume the worst and price accordingly. The market will discount to reflect that risk. Will be interesting to see what they go for.
For example, if the car has been repaired within the Ferrari network, it'll be recorded as such. I'm sure Mr Brooks has the necessary contacts to check. Maybe he has and the car wasn't listed as having been repaired?
rubystone said:
will_ said:
If the car has an mot, it has an mot. It's not for Bonhams to question it.
How do you know that it's been crashed? If it's not in the paperwork Bonhams aren't going to know about it.
These cars are obviously priced to reflect that you might be buying a complete dog and/or a car with no history, so presume the worst and price accordingly. The market will discount to reflect that risk. Will be interesting to see what they go for.
I'm surprised that the car's history has not been listed by Bonhams. After all, they employ people solely to research these cars and if amateur PHers are able to uncover its history. Surely highly paid experts in New Bond Street ought to be able to do the same?How do you know that it's been crashed? If it's not in the paperwork Bonhams aren't going to know about it.
These cars are obviously priced to reflect that you might be buying a complete dog and/or a car with no history, so presume the worst and price accordingly. The market will discount to reflect that risk. Will be interesting to see what they go for.
For example, if the car has been repaired within the Ferrari network, it'll be recorded as such. I'm sure Mr Brooks has the necessary contacts to check. Maybe he has and the car wasn't listed as having been repaired?
You only need to look at Coys if you want to see seriously dodgy auction house behaviour.
rubystone said:
will_ said:
If the car has an mot, it has an mot. It's not for Bonhams to question it.
How do you know that it's been crashed? If it's not in the paperwork Bonhams aren't going to know about it.
These cars are obviously priced to reflect that you might be buying a complete dog and/or a car with no history, so presume the worst and price accordingly. The market will discount to reflect that risk. Will be interesting to see what they go for.
I'm surprised that the car's history has not been listed by Bonhams. After all, they employ people solely to research these cars and if amateur PHers are able to uncover its history. Surely highly paid experts in New Bond Street ought to be able to do the same?How do you know that it's been crashed? If it's not in the paperwork Bonhams aren't going to know about it.
These cars are obviously priced to reflect that you might be buying a complete dog and/or a car with no history, so presume the worst and price accordingly. The market will discount to reflect that risk. Will be interesting to see what they go for.
For example, if the car has been repaired within the Ferrari network, it'll be recorded as such. I'm sure Mr Brooks has the necessary contacts to check. Maybe he has and the car wasn't listed as having been repaired?
You only need to look at Coys if you want to see seriously dodgy auction house behaviour.
AndrewIC said:
They will just go off what the NCA (vendor) tell them, they may research a car if it is of interest, such as racing history, a shagged Enzo etc is of no interest. As they often say in the terms at the back, it is the responsibility of the bidder to fully satisfy themselves about a car, it is not the responsibility of the auction house.
You only need to look at Coys if you want to see seriously dodgy auction house behaviour.
I'd have thought that Brooks would care about their reputation? But maybe I'm wrong?You only need to look at Coys if you want to see seriously dodgy auction house behaviour.
rubystone said:
I'm surprised that the car's history has not been listed by Bonhams. After all, they employ people solely to research these cars and if amateur PHers are able to uncover its history. Surely highly paid experts in New Bond Street ought to be able to do the same?
For example, if the car has been repaired within the Ferrari network, it'll be recorded as such. I'm sure Mr Brooks has the necessary contacts to check. Maybe he has and the car wasn't listed as having been repaired?
What do you think your average cataloguer gets paid per description? For example, if the car has been repaired within the Ferrari network, it'll be recorded as such. I'm sure Mr Brooks has the necessary contacts to check. Maybe he has and the car wasn't listed as having been repaired?
I'm sure that the description is an accurate as possible given the circumstances, but for relatively modern stuff I'm sure the focus is on the documents and information provided by the vendor. I'm not sure how other posters know the history, but if it's that easy to find then no doubt any serious purchaser will already be aware of it. If not, that is the risk taken by buying st auction and the price reflects the risk. To me, nothing appears to be obviously hidden and the estimates are a fairly obvious indication of potential "stories" with these cars. Let's see what the market says.
will_ said:
What do you think your average cataloguer gets paid per description?
I'm sure that the description is an accurate as possible given the circumstances, but for relatively modern stuff I'm sure the focus is on the documents and information provided by the vendor. I'm not sure how other posters know the history, but if it's that easy to find then no doubt any serious purchaser will already be aware of it. If not, that is the risk taken by buying st auction and the price reflects the risk. To me, nothing appears to be obviously hidden and the estimates are a fairly obvious indication of potential "stories" with these cars. Let's see what the market says.
Average cataloguer....roflmao....I'm sure that the description is an accurate as possible given the circumstances, but for relatively modern stuff I'm sure the focus is on the documents and information provided by the vendor. I'm not sure how other posters know the history, but if it's that easy to find then no doubt any serious purchaser will already be aware of it. If not, that is the risk taken by buying st auction and the price reflects the risk. To me, nothing appears to be obviously hidden and the estimates are a fairly obvious indication of potential "stories" with these cars. Let's see what the market says.
mackay45 said:
What do we think the cars will make? Surely the £260k estimate on the Phantom is the most ridiculous?
I am interested too.... I genuinely have no idea what the Enzo will make.... it will be interesting to see. I am surprised about the lack of information that the auction house is listing for the Enzo - they have a lot at stake and I would not want word to spread that you can buy a lemon through an auction house such as this.
toohuge said:
mackay45 said:
What do we think the cars will make? Surely the £260k estimate on the Phantom is the most ridiculous?
I am interested too.... I genuinely have no idea what the Enzo will make.... it will be interesting to see. I am surprised about the lack of information that the auction house is listing for the Enzo - they have a lot at stake and I would not want word to spread that you can buy a lemon through an auction house such as this.
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22723/lot/367/
Agreed re the Enzo price
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