New Supercar noise law for London :-(
Discussion
Something I've been meaning to ask you Tim.
About 6 years ago I attended a London Supercar run that you organised, it was good fun, I enjoyed it. I'd been on a few London runs before and at the time the whole "spotter" thing was unknown to me (apart from tourists taking pics obviously).
As we began there were a few youngsters waiting at the lights filming, some had push bikes which they raced off on and appeared at other strategic points along the route. It wasn't until I thought about it later that I considered it was probably organised.
I don't have an axe to grind here and I respect you for coming onto this thread and laying out your position but I'd be interested to know, was that whole run arranged specifically so you could get footage for your blossoming enterprise?
About 6 years ago I attended a London Supercar run that you organised, it was good fun, I enjoyed it. I'd been on a few London runs before and at the time the whole "spotter" thing was unknown to me (apart from tourists taking pics obviously).
As we began there were a few youngsters waiting at the lights filming, some had push bikes which they raced off on and appeared at other strategic points along the route. It wasn't until I thought about it later that I considered it was probably organised.
I don't have an axe to grind here and I respect you for coming onto this thread and laying out your position but I'd be interested to know, was that whole run arranged specifically so you could get footage for your blossoming enterprise?
br d said:
Something I've been meaning to ask you Tim.
About 6 years ago I attended a London Supercar run that you organised, it was good fun, I enjoyed it. I'd been on a few London runs before and at the time the whole "spotter" thing was unknown to me (apart from tourists taking pics obviously).
As we began there were a few youngsters waiting at the lights filming, some had push bikes which they raced off on and appeared at other strategic points along the route. It wasn't until I thought about it later that I considered it was probably organised.
I don't have an axe to grind here and I respect you for coming onto this thread and laying out your position but I'd be interested to know, was that whole run arranged specifically so you could get footage for your blossoming enterprise?
Interesting question.About 6 years ago I attended a London Supercar run that you organised, it was good fun, I enjoyed it. I'd been on a few London runs before and at the time the whole "spotter" thing was unknown to me (apart from tourists taking pics obviously).
As we began there were a few youngsters waiting at the lights filming, some had push bikes which they raced off on and appeared at other strategic points along the route. It wasn't until I thought about it later that I considered it was probably organised.
I don't have an axe to grind here and I respect you for coming onto this thread and laying out your position but I'd be interested to know, was that whole run arranged specifically so you could get footage for your blossoming enterprise?
The run in question was less than a year after my first car videos, and it was actually before it was possible to earn money via YouTube etc, so no this was not part of any plan or commercial opportunity.
I tried to arrange that first run because the earlier Scud Runs that were organised via PH weren't happening for various cancellation reasons and a few people were calling for them. I was in full time employment at the time, had bought my Aston 3 months before, and certainly had no idea then of how things would change in due course. The run was arranged via a thread here on PH, and the other attendees at the start were PH photographers who had commented on here or messaged directly if they could come along. I suppose back then car spotting wasn't a thing and didn't carry a title, so these were our fellow forum users discussing it - Instagram didn't exist for example.
So in short, I suppose yes it was on my mind to film a video, but no it wasn't a commercial activity, it was to shoot a video for people and attendees to enjoy when we shared it around afterwards. I was posting videos on YouTube at that time to link to threads on various websites, YouTube was not its own platform with a significant audience - that's all changed in the years since, probably early 2012 was when my channel started growing and I worked out it might become a business.
Shmee said:
I am sure I am partly to blame for causing the activities that happen now, I openly admitted that in my discussion video and on the BBC interview I filmed. It's not something that was ever intentional and I don't think anybody really saw it developing this way. I feel the mainstream press mis-reporting incidents over the last few years coupled with the rise in popularity of Instagram have had a significant effect though. Technically we could probably blame the guys who made videos that I saw and followed in their footsteps back at that time, I definitely wasn't the first to do this - see the SSSR thread which is where it all began for me.
Just to clear one thing up, I actually moved out of my family home at 18 after school, 9 years ago and have self-rented ever since in central London. My family don't live in London, and nor are they strung-up as I've never tried to claim, however they certainly do not fund my activities or cars in any way beyond having given me a good start through school and early life.
McLaren also don't fund or financially help me in any way, shape or form, and I'm sure in due course I will produce the invoice for my 675LT at full list price - as much as I would rather have a discount! They do open up opportunities, for example attending the LT press launch, and being allowed to take a hotlap in a P1 at Yas Marina (flights and hotel booked by me). I would like to work closer with them in the future but at this moment in time I am open to any brand and have no commercial or formal agreement of any description beyond having friends that work there.
Sorry for such a long post, I'm sure in the process I've upset at least one or two people, just trying to offer my opinions on some of this as it's pretty close to home.
Please do let me know what the people of PH think I should do to calm the situation, like I've said I try to minimise the number of videos I film of car spotting because I vastly prefer going on road trips and taking cars out on good roads, but this is how it all started for me and one can argue in any business you should try to stay true to your roots because clearly that's what the audience liked to start with.
Everyone on here is clearly keen to work out how everything I do isn't possible and in truth if I could I would spend the time to sit down with each and every person (bar one or two particularly offensive individuals) to explain it all - and I assure you it would make sense and you'd leave not feeling the need to bash it about so often - then I would. The difficulty is that a different type of people need a different type of explanation, and obviously PH is one particular extreme of that. The frequency with which I am asked by the press to do articles about how me and how I buy a "McLaren from YouTube" and I have to say no because it doesn't work like that and it would be unfairly misleading - but you just don't see it. YouTube earns something, yes, I've never denied that (simple maths online tells you what 90m views a year earns), but much more importantly the social media contracts I now work on with my team, the brokering deals I'm involved in, the returns from investments I've made in the past to small little business, all together make a package that makes living this way possible.
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that have no idea of this, but Shmee150 is now 7 people, it's much more than the spectacularly amateur videos you see on YouTube. Business is business, anybody who runs their own will appreciate that you do things in your own way and that's what works - why on earth would I want to tell everyone what I do, and why would it be their business?
My massively long post is genuinely now over, I feel a bit sad that I keep having to come back here to defend myself, can we please just try to offer something constructive rather than this constant attacking that I get from PH?
[Edited to fix typos]
Personally I see no reason why you need to justify ourself or any POV. I for one enjoy watching your vids (and those of your mates) on a 'time for tea break'. Makes make laugh when people moan about free content, Chris Harris another great example. This stuff is FREE, very watchable and we are seeing people do things we cars we love and admire. New world order in terms of the modern top gear twist - yet still some types still want to moan...Just to clear one thing up, I actually moved out of my family home at 18 after school, 9 years ago and have self-rented ever since in central London. My family don't live in London, and nor are they strung-up as I've never tried to claim, however they certainly do not fund my activities or cars in any way beyond having given me a good start through school and early life.
McLaren also don't fund or financially help me in any way, shape or form, and I'm sure in due course I will produce the invoice for my 675LT at full list price - as much as I would rather have a discount! They do open up opportunities, for example attending the LT press launch, and being allowed to take a hotlap in a P1 at Yas Marina (flights and hotel booked by me). I would like to work closer with them in the future but at this moment in time I am open to any brand and have no commercial or formal agreement of any description beyond having friends that work there.
Sorry for such a long post, I'm sure in the process I've upset at least one or two people, just trying to offer my opinions on some of this as it's pretty close to home.
Please do let me know what the people of PH think I should do to calm the situation, like I've said I try to minimise the number of videos I film of car spotting because I vastly prefer going on road trips and taking cars out on good roads, but this is how it all started for me and one can argue in any business you should try to stay true to your roots because clearly that's what the audience liked to start with.
Everyone on here is clearly keen to work out how everything I do isn't possible and in truth if I could I would spend the time to sit down with each and every person (bar one or two particularly offensive individuals) to explain it all - and I assure you it would make sense and you'd leave not feeling the need to bash it about so often - then I would. The difficulty is that a different type of people need a different type of explanation, and obviously PH is one particular extreme of that. The frequency with which I am asked by the press to do articles about how me and how I buy a "McLaren from YouTube" and I have to say no because it doesn't work like that and it would be unfairly misleading - but you just don't see it. YouTube earns something, yes, I've never denied that (simple maths online tells you what 90m views a year earns), but much more importantly the social media contracts I now work on with my team, the brokering deals I'm involved in, the returns from investments I've made in the past to small little business, all together make a package that makes living this way possible.
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that have no idea of this, but Shmee150 is now 7 people, it's much more than the spectacularly amateur videos you see on YouTube. Business is business, anybody who runs their own will appreciate that you do things in your own way and that's what works - why on earth would I want to tell everyone what I do, and why would it be their business?
My massively long post is genuinely now over, I feel a bit sad that I keep having to come back here to defend myself, can we please just try to offer something constructive rather than this constant attacking that I get from PH?
[Edited to fix typos]
Edited by Shmee on Sunday 2nd August 03:33
Solutions is simple really... Don't like it (or anything about it) then switch then Ipad off and go back to reading the daily mail!
Shmee said:
br d said:
Something I've been meaning to ask you Tim.
About 6 years ago I attended a London Supercar run that you organised, it was good fun, I enjoyed it. I'd been on a few London runs before and at the time the whole "spotter" thing was unknown to me (apart from tourists taking pics obviously).
As we began there were a few youngsters waiting at the lights filming, some had push bikes which they raced off on and appeared at other strategic points along the route. It wasn't until I thought about it later that I considered it was probably organised.
I don't have an axe to grind here and I respect you for coming onto this thread and laying out your position but I'd be interested to know, was that whole run arranged specifically so you could get footage for your blossoming enterprise?
Interesting question.About 6 years ago I attended a London Supercar run that you organised, it was good fun, I enjoyed it. I'd been on a few London runs before and at the time the whole "spotter" thing was unknown to me (apart from tourists taking pics obviously).
As we began there were a few youngsters waiting at the lights filming, some had push bikes which they raced off on and appeared at other strategic points along the route. It wasn't until I thought about it later that I considered it was probably organised.
I don't have an axe to grind here and I respect you for coming onto this thread and laying out your position but I'd be interested to know, was that whole run arranged specifically so you could get footage for your blossoming enterprise?
The run in question was less than a year after my first car videos, and it was actually before it was possible to earn money via YouTube etc, so no this was not part of any plan or commercial opportunity.
I tried to arrange that first run because the earlier Scud Runs that were organised via PH weren't happening for various cancellation reasons and a few people were calling for them. I was in full time employment at the time, had bought my Aston 3 months before, and certainly had no idea then of how things would change in due course. The run was arranged via a thread here on PH, and the other attendees at the start were PH photographers who had commented on here or messaged directly if they could come along. I suppose back then car spotting wasn't a thing and didn't carry a title, so these were our fellow forum users discussing it - Instagram didn't exist for example.
So in short, I suppose yes it was on my mind to film a video, but no it wasn't a commercial activity, it was to shoot a video for people and attendees to enjoy when we shared it around afterwards. I was posting videos on YouTube at that time to link to threads on various websites, YouTube was not its own platform with a significant audience - that's all changed in the years since, probably early 2012 was when my channel started growing and I worked out it might become a business.
those early scud runs with the bikes outrunning us were a great laugh
SELON said:
As for Shmee...well if he isn't getting some kind of incentive from McLaren then I am somewhat surprised, but that's perhaps just my ignorance of the business he is in, as I am sure there is more than one person who has looked up his videos over the past 18 months and made a purchase, at least in part influenced by them (I don't really care if he is In any way paid by McLaren or anyone else, except for the purposes of understanding any bias in his reviews).
I'm not surprised about the fact there isn't a discount - from what I've seen of Shmee on Facebook his audience mostly appear to be teenagers who enjoy that via his channel they have access to footage of some very nice cars. The most popular videos are of course the ones of cars revving engines or quick acceleration but no-one can be surprised about that surely? When I was in my teens I used to hang around a local pub which was frequented by bikers and the highlight of the night was when someone did a wheelie or burnout. Same s
t, different age/media.I would be amazed if someone "normal" with the means to buy a McLaren (by that I mean 30+ years old having done well financially) based their choice on the content of one of Shmee's videos. Hence can't see any incentive for McLaren to do the bloke any favours/discount.
Fair play to Tim for coming on this thread and fighting his corner though - he has gone up in my estimation. Hope he uses the LT for the purposes it was built for.
Shmee said:
I tried to arrange that first run because the earlier Scud Runs that were organised via PH weren't happening for various cancellation reasons and a few people were calling for them. I was in full time employment at the time, had bought my Aston 3 months before, and certainly had no idea then of how things would change in due course..
And of course Astons are banned from Scud Runs.As are R8's.
And 911's
OzzyR1 said:
SELON said:
As for Shmee...well if he isn't getting some kind of incentive from McLaren then I am somewhat surprised, but that's perhaps just my ignorance of the business he is in, as I am sure there is more than one person who has looked up his videos over the past 18 months and made a purchase, at least in part influenced by them (I don't really care if he is In any way paid by McLaren or anyone else, except for the purposes of understanding any bias in his reviews).
I'm not surprised about the fact there isn't a discount - from what I've seen of Shmee on Facebook his audience mostly appear to be teenagers who enjoy that via his channel they have access to footage of some very nice cars. The most popular videos are of course the ones of cars revving engines or quick acceleration but no-one can be surprised about that surely? When I was in my teens I used to hang around a local pub which was frequented by bikers and the highlight of the night was when someone did a wheelie or burnout. Same st, different age/media.I would be amazed if someone "normal" with the means to buy a McLaren (by that I mean 30+ years old having done well financially) based their choice on the content of one of Shmee's videos. Hence can't see any incentive for McLaren to do the bloke any favours/discount.
Fair play to Tim for coming on this thread and fighting his corner though - he has gone up in my estimation. Hope he uses the LT for the purposes it was built for.
I suspect there are more than a few McLaren owners, some sub 30 yrs old and mostly 'normal', who have seen his videos before buying, although I wouldn't expect anyone would base their decision solely on the videos. However, as has frequently been mentioned on the McLaren forum, brand awareness (for their road cars) is still very limited it seems, hence Shmee and Chris Harris (definitely got his for 'free' for 3 months) driving them around and posting their exploits and views on t'internet expands that awareness significantly (Harris 250k subscribers and Shmee 500k YouTube subscribers and whatever they have on social media). Note that I'm not doubting that McLaren don't pay Shmee for the free advertising/exposure they get, I'm just a little surprised by it, which is no doubt my own lack of understanding of these things.
Hey Tim, great post - wasn't getting at you with the McLaren discount thing - just something I thought made sense given you've gone through 3 of them in quite a short space of time.
People claiming you're responsible for the situation are being hysterical. This stuff happens in every town centre in the country, its just no one wants to photograph chavved up Corsas! The toys may get more expensive but the men are no different...
Personally, I've not had too much issue with spotters - obviously I'm not driving around in a Zonda Cinque so the attention is less but I get photographed wherever I go, have been held up once by some guy crouching in the road but that's it. The only thing I have found is that when you park up a) people are a bit quick to flock around with little consideration and b) are surprisingly uninterested in talking about the car!
One question - what was the deal with the Morgan? Felt like you got it, Did one or two videos then got rid - didn't get on with it or a loan for the summer?
People claiming you're responsible for the situation are being hysterical. This stuff happens in every town centre in the country, its just no one wants to photograph chavved up Corsas! The toys may get more expensive but the men are no different...
Personally, I've not had too much issue with spotters - obviously I'm not driving around in a Zonda Cinque so the attention is less but I get photographed wherever I go, have been held up once by some guy crouching in the road but that's it. The only thing I have found is that when you park up a) people are a bit quick to flock around with little consideration and b) are surprisingly uninterested in talking about the car!
One question - what was the deal with the Morgan? Felt like you got it, Did one or two videos then got rid - didn't get on with it or a loan for the summer?
Lots and lots of PH high horses here.
I am thinking of the various PH Sunday services I have where people rev their engines and drive like knobs.
I don't think Shmee is to blame, young lads in fast/loud cars will show off. Let's face it Shmee isn't at half the McDonald's in the land every evening where exactly the same antics occur.
I am thinking of the various PH Sunday services I have where people rev their engines and drive like knobs.
I don't think Shmee is to blame, young lads in fast/loud cars will show off. Let's face it Shmee isn't at half the McDonald's in the land every evening where exactly the same antics occur.
The Media will always try to make a story as negative as possible, you rarely see good time stories in the news its always more miserable and made to sound as bad as possible even if stretching the truth. With all the immigration talk in the news it would be a shame not to throw that into a nuisance car story story as well.
About 15yrs ago the boy racers modifying normal cars with colour coded bumpers, lowered, alloy wheels and big bass systems was the big news to do with nuisance cars. That (at least where I live) scene has almost completely gone mainly because of what new cars now come with and the lack of money for the average young person and a police crack down some years back (think Section 59 etc...)
The one thing I always think is crazy now when watching any supercar videos from london is the amount of kids / young adults following these cars. Doing anything to get the best video / photo. Its the love of the cars and fact some peer pressure will always cause a couple to rev or show off.
Because Shmee has done well others think its easy. Reminds me of stories like 'Janice received £20,000 for unfair dissmisal' so everyone thinks they'll get similar when those stories are just rare cases. shmee well may of started off the first few new spotters and then word of mouth has made the spotters grow, it is obviously a problem for the residents though.
About 15yrs ago the boy racers modifying normal cars with colour coded bumpers, lowered, alloy wheels and big bass systems was the big news to do with nuisance cars. That (at least where I live) scene has almost completely gone mainly because of what new cars now come with and the lack of money for the average young person and a police crack down some years back (think Section 59 etc...)
The one thing I always think is crazy now when watching any supercar videos from london is the amount of kids / young adults following these cars. Doing anything to get the best video / photo. Its the love of the cars and fact some peer pressure will always cause a couple to rev or show off.
Because Shmee has done well others think its easy. Reminds me of stories like 'Janice received £20,000 for unfair dissmisal' so everyone thinks they'll get similar when those stories are just rare cases. shmee well may of started off the first few new spotters and then word of mouth has made the spotters grow, it is obviously a problem for the residents though.
Shmee said:
My 12C sold for the same price I bought it for, my 650S won't lose more than a new 3 Series would lose. It doesn't take a genius to know that the 675LT is already commanding premiums - obviously I wouldn't be in a great situation if the market totally collapsed but that's a risk of business that anybody goes through, my cars are the main asset for creating content for my business and therefore very important.
The way it looks now, I expect I'll come out of owning 3 McLarens in the black not the red. That's business and how you make money, it was a gamble but it seems to be working and an awful lot of enjoyment in the process. I could have taken a bath on depreciation with the 12C and if that happened then I couldn't have moved up to the 650S but fortunately I structured it well and the system worked out how I hoped.
I love the man maths - as an owner who clearly used his 12C a great deal it would seem highly unlikely that you purchased used from a garage and then traded it for the same value 12 months later with an extra 20k miles? (great work if you did). The 650s would look to be a money nightmare, purchased used and 7 months of ownership with a £50k drop (more like the full value of an M3 rather than the amount a 3 series would loose in 7 months) but most of all I love the inclusion of a car that hasn't yet been delivered to bring your whole McLaren car ownership back into the black - are you planning on flipping it!The way it looks now, I expect I'll come out of owning 3 McLarens in the black not the red. That's business and how you make money, it was a gamble but it seems to be working and an awful lot of enjoyment in the process. I could have taken a bath on depreciation with the 12C and if that happened then I couldn't have moved up to the 650S but fortunately I structured it well and the system worked out how I hoped.
OzzyR1 said:
SELON said:
I would be amazed if someone "normal" with the means to buy a McLaren (by that I mean 30+ years old having done well financially) based their choice on the content of one of Shmee's videos. Hence can't see any incentive for McLaren to do the bloke any favours/discount.
Shmee doesn't drive a McLaren now. He has a 5 year old Audi R8.Shmee said:
Very respectable comments.
However I strongly disagree with the proportion of 'blame' I think you feel lies in my direction.
stuff
I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this issue but I appreciate you taking the time to reply, and it's sufficiently rare enough for someone to riposte in a calm and composed manner - so that's refreshing.However I strongly disagree with the proportion of 'blame' I think you feel lies in my direction.
stuff
There seems to be a fair bit of green eyed jealousy towards Shmee on this thread.
Shmee has made a success out of making a site that people (alright, KIDS!) watch in their thousands, so I guess that makes him a success.
I tend to believe that it is a clear case of the typical stiff upper lip British jealousy for anyone who makes a success out of something that he enjoys doing.
In the US, they would be queuing up to shake his hand.
Admittedly, he may have a little too much of the childish burnouts and wheelspins associated with the Knightsbridge Grand Prix, but on the whole it is a very enjoyable pastime, watching the Shmee150 channel sometimes.
I don't believe for one minute that Shmee is getting preferential treatment from McLaren. In any case, he now drives a 5 year old Audi R8.
Shmee admits himself that his presenting style can grind a bit. My advice Shmee, take a back seat and get some gorgeous blonde female presenter to do the voice overs for you.
No more idiotic West end of London videos though please Shmee.
Shmee has made a success out of making a site that people (alright, KIDS!) watch in their thousands, so I guess that makes him a success.
I tend to believe that it is a clear case of the typical stiff upper lip British jealousy for anyone who makes a success out of something that he enjoys doing.
In the US, they would be queuing up to shake his hand.
Admittedly, he may have a little too much of the childish burnouts and wheelspins associated with the Knightsbridge Grand Prix, but on the whole it is a very enjoyable pastime, watching the Shmee150 channel sometimes.
I don't believe for one minute that Shmee is getting preferential treatment from McLaren. In any case, he now drives a 5 year old Audi R8.
Shmee admits himself that his presenting style can grind a bit. My advice Shmee, take a back seat and get some gorgeous blonde female presenter to do the voice overs for you.
No more idiotic West end of London videos though please Shmee.
Driving in convoy is impossible to prove. What idiot pen-pusher thought that was a slam dunk?
If I got stopped for driving with say three other cars or twenty three for that matter, you would have to prove I know them, or otherwise who is to say I did not just turn onto that street at the same time these guys happened to be there?
its bullst and that would never ever be proven in court.
If I got stopped for driving with say three other cars or twenty three for that matter, you would have to prove I know them, or otherwise who is to say I did not just turn onto that street at the same time these guys happened to be there?
its bulls
t and that would never ever be proven in court.Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff