New Supercar noise law for London :-(

[andrew]

KFC said:

...innocent Lambo owners...

there are no such people

[Angelis]

fatboy18 said:

If they had not been there I would have just driven along minding my own business and would not have disturbed the residence. The residence played a key part in getting the ramps installed so I have ZERO Sympathy.

I live down that road.

We are now petitioning to give you an ASBO.

[fatboy18]

Angelis said:

fatboy18 said:

If they had not been there I would have just driven along minding my own business and would not have disturbed the residence. The residence played a key part in getting the ramps installed so I have ZERO Sympathy.

I live down that road.

We are now petitioning to give you an ASBO.

I'm actually wondering if the MD for Land rover lives in that road? Must have boosted sales of Chelsea Tractors 1000%

Edited by fatboy18 on Tuesday 4th August 21:08

[R11ysf]

Shmee said:

A long, articulate post

Tim,
Good response and thanks for taking the time, this did turn from a post about supercar noise to a lot of people having a go at you personally which seems a little unfair. I've not met you but you do seem passionate about cars which is exactly what this place is for so fair enough.

There are just a couple of points I'll raise

Shmee said:

No, car spotting costs more than it makes.

To quote you 90m hits last year and 120m-150m this year. A quick bit of internet googling suggests this is somewhere between $60k and $450k depending on the deal for last year and obviously higher for this year. Let's assume it's nearer $200k how can this not make money? Camera, air ticket, hotel and you. Add in a bit of fuel and I fail to see how this can't make money?

Shmee said:

However I strongly disagree with the proportion of 'blame' I think you feel lies in my direction. Most of the early car spotters in London actually formed out of the regular posters in Pistonheads' own SSSR thread and actually I still experience a number of people on the street car spotting who don't know my accounts.

Now this is an interesting point as your failure is because of your success. Let me explain. Like violence with video games, some kids (teenagers and early 20's) see stuff on the internet and try to re-create stuff they think is 'cool'. The more they see of guys doing burnouts and driving like tts the more they will want to recreate it. Or hire cars and drive down to Knightsbridge so you can film them acting like tts and get put on the internet. You can be sure as anything that Lord Aleem idiot will have linked all the posts about him revving the tits off his Aventador to his facebook/instagram/twitter and this will have given him kudos amongst dheads and also given you more hits.

So as you were the first and the biggest a large portion of the exponential explosion of the dhead driving and the dhead spotters is down to you. If you hadn't turned up then I'm am 100% sure someone else would have come along and done exactly what you did, but they didn't. You were the first, you are the biggest and as such you got the spoils, so you must also accept the criticism too.

Shmee said:

Please do let me know what the people of PH think I should do to calm the situation, like I've said I try to minimise the number of videos I film of car spotting because I vastly prefer going on road trips and taking cars out on good roads, but this is how it all started for me and one can argue in any business you should try to stay true to your roots because clearly that's what the audience liked to start with.

Well here's a thought, how about you immediately take down all posts of irresponsible behaviour, anything which would be illegal under the new legislation and any crash footage? That would be a start and show how you are trying to be a legitimate car channel, but you won't because of the cash it raise. So we're back to the point above, like it or not you've helped encourage this behaviour of both the spotters and the drivers who get egged on by them.

As I said above, I don't know you and have no animosity towards you (I even thought it funny you find your own presenting style cringy! If Schmee150 is 7 people give on of them a go next time lol!) but there is a fair bit of this whole sorry mess that comes back to you whether you like it or not. Yet on the upside you've started a business which seems to be growing and there are many businesses that started from murky roots so who cares, just don't deny responsibility.

[AtlantisWeb]

Very good comment. Come on Shmee, are you going to do it?

[quote=R11ysf]

Well here's a thought, how about you immediately take down all posts of irresponsible behaviour, anything which would be illegal under the new legislation and any crash footage? That would be a start and show how you are trying to be a legitimate car channel, but you won't because of the cash it raise. So we're back to the point above, like it or not you've helped encourage this behaviour of both the spotters and the drivers who get egged on by them.

[Angelis]

Leave the guy alone.

So he makes videos of cars and makes a bit of money from it. Good luck to him.

[epom]

Don't drive like a dick and I'd assume you will be fine. Simple really.

[blueg33]

epom said:

Don't drive like a dick and I'd assume you will be fine. Simple really.

Stop talking sense, this is ph.

[Juber]

Little dig at Shmee again.... (nothing against you but you’re a bit of a hypocrite)

Latest video uploaded on his FB page "Mercedes SLR Burnout - Source Unknown"


On his website, same car but a video taken earlier in the year by himself, pretty much same chavvy behaviour.


Is it a coincidence that the source is unknown because of this thread / new law, or could it all be true? One thing for sure is that he’s encouraging the anti-social behaviour by sharing these silly videos on social media.

[BJG1]

swerni said:

Angelis said:

Leave the guy alone.

So he makes videos of cars and makes a bit of money from it. Good luck to him.

No he doesn't. He already stated that it costs more than it makes.

That isn't what he's said - he was referring to a specific type of video (spotting) that is loss-making. I assume things like the Lambo Turkey video raked in a fair bit.

[BJG1]

swerni said:

Isn't this whole thread about the behavior in London and spotting?
So why do it?
Public service?
Love the sound of ones own voice?

I assume that whilst the individual videos are loss-making, it's an easy way of consistently delivering content to subscribers, so they haven't drifted off when he does a video that makes him some wonga.

Anyway, who cares why he does it? He runs a Youtube channel for teenagers, we aren't his audience. Suggesting he's responsible for the behaviour of grown adults is ridiculous. Just leave the guy to it.

[KFC]

The individual videos aren't loss making when there are no real costs attached to them (bear in mind he lives in the area, the cars aren't his, only his time involved in chasing cars up and down the street). Its just more lies and/or half truths from Timmy.

[Angelis]

swerni said:

No he doesn't. He already stated that it costs more than it makes.

Don't know about him, but my videos definetly cost more to make than the money I get from them which is why I'm trying to cross over into TV.

My video camera alone cost £14,000 and it didn't even come with a lens!

[topjay]

Spotters...........arms dealers don't cause wars or kill people but it is in their interest if they continue ................and chase sales










Yes I am joking

[Durzel]

Juber said:

Little dig at Shmee again.... (nothing against you but you’re a bit of a hypocrite)

Latest video uploaded on his FB page "Mercedes SLR Burnout - Source Unknown"


On his website, same car but a video taken earlier in the year by himself, pretty much same chavvy behaviour.


Is it a coincidence that the source is unknown because of this thread / new law, or could it all be true? One thing for sure is that he’s encouraging the anti-social behaviour by sharing these silly videos on social media.

The problem I have with that personally is that it runs counter to what was said in that piece to camera - i.e. that he wasn't going to give UK based cretins the satisfaction of being filmed, yet here we are.

Would have more respect if, as suggested above, there was some honesty - "they make me money, I don't care what you lot think" etc. But also as said above we aren't the target market.

[andrew]

Angelis said:

My video camera alone cost £14,000 and it didn't even come with a lens!

yeah, but it's got a big knob 'round the back of it

[Angelis]

swerni said:

You can rent my gopro for £2k a day

I have 7 of those as well.

[darksider]

Some highly illogical arguments being flung around here:

-Shmees content is unlikely to encourage bad driving behavior. Think about it: most of his YouTube audience are teenage boys who don't even own a car, let alone a supercar. How much mayhem could they realistically cause? I doubt that Arab supercar owners even watch his channel.

-Arab supercar owners are already ill behaved. Have you ever seen a car rally in Saudi Arabia? These guys love hooning their rides all the time. Shmee or any other car spotter didn't cause that.

-Asking Shmee to remove some of his bad content won't work; there are other carspotters who will upload the content anyways. It's all just entertainment, no dffferent from violent action movies. If seeing bad behavior from these mediums causes you to replicate it, you are a straight up idiot.

I don't care if you are from the Middle East or England, just use your brain and drive responsibly.

[Shmee]

When I was in my early teens somebody once used the phrase to me: "Arguing on the internet is stupid because no matter what happens you both lose". You can never change the opinion of somebody who has made a decision on a topic by something you write behind a fairly anonymous username on a generic online platform.

This is something I firmly believe in so I'm not going about anything here with an intent to try and change the mind of you or anybody else and I am confident we will never see eye to eye on it (I'll certainly never agree with Mr KFC, but that's a different topic), however just a few quick points without going into full depth because otherwise there is no ending in sight!

R11ysf said:

Shmee said:

No, car spotting costs more than it makes.

To quote you 90m hits last year and 120m-150m this year. A quick bit of internet googling suggests this is somewhere between $60k and $450k depending on the deal for last year and obviously higher for this year. Let's assume it's nearer $200k how can this not make money? Camera, air ticket, hotel and you. Add in a bit of fuel and I fail to see how this can't make money?

There are no consistent earnings rate per view; for example a 30 minute review of a 675LT earns at a rate of £x per 1k views, but a video of a car cruising in London will be between 1/20th and 1/10th of £x per 1k views. This is because it's very low quality content and advertisers aren't interested; there is no target or clear audience for it and as such rates are exceptionally low. A video car spotting in London will earn a few £s, but then a tube ticket, sandwich lunch, snack, dinner, tube home, or perhaps even adding driving into this, totals much more.

I much prefer the longer form pieces and road trip content as they both are substantially more fun to film, and earn at significantly higher rates. This is why I don't personally film anywhere nearly as many car spotting videos as I have done in the past, in fact I was standing next to a full blue carbon fibre bodied Maserati MC12 2 days ago and just couldn't be bothered for the £3 it might make me.

R11ysf said:

Shmee said:

However I strongly disagree with the proportion of 'blame' I think you feel lies in my direction. Most of the early car spotters in London actually formed out of the regular posters in Pistonheads' own SSSR thread and actually I still experience a number of people on the street car spotting who don't know my accounts.

Now this is an interesting point as your failure is because of your success. Let me explain. Like violence with video games, some kids (teenagers and early 20's) see stuff on the internet and try to re-create stuff they think is 'cool'. The more they see of guys doing burnouts and driving like tts the more they will want to recreate it. Or hire cars and drive down to Knightsbridge so you can film them acting like tts and get put on the internet. You can be sure as anything that Lord Aleem idiot will have linked all the posts about him revving the tits off his Aventador to his facebook/instagram/twitter and this will have given him kudos amongst dheads and also given you more hits.

So as you were the first and the biggest a large portion of the exponential explosion of the dhead driving and the dhead spotters is down to you. If you hadn't turned up then I'm am 100% sure someone else would have come along and done exactly what you did, but they didn't. You were the first, you are the biggest and as such you got the spoils, so you must also accept the criticism too.

I wasn't even remotely the first, I suppose I was the one that did it 'best' or in your case, 'worst'. Algorithms are very important to this process, and if it wasn't my specific video of an incident getting views then it absolutely would have been somebody else.

Another point I did make earlier is that very few of my videos actually demonstrate the behaviour you are talking about and as we get closer to recent times they get exponentially fewer and further between, perhaps now it is 1 in 100 or so. On the opposite to what you might expect I'm receiving messages referring to other videos I upload of me like "God you drive the car like an old man" which became the top rated comment on one of my videos.

The viewership of the Aleem video is an interesting case study, obviously if you had asked me then how many views it would get there's no way I'd have responded with 7 million and rising. I can certainly see that people will have shared it around with that kind of attitude but then again the more recent video of the C63 doing a burnout here's the message a friend of the driver posted on Instagram: "when we go down in the other cars next week bring the range im gona chuck him in the boot!!" to which the driver responded: "dont u worry he'l get his due wen i see him". This is in total conflict with what you are suggesting these guys think, certainly not something they were proud of!

The way the internet works in general is that controversial topics will always generate clicks and traffic; the same logic used by the Daily Mail, The Lad Bible, Car Buzz, and numerous other big sites or platforms. To get anywhere in the competitive online world there has to be a degree of hatred and controversy, just where I suffer is that there's a face to my platforms - even if the video in particular wasn't shot by me and the channel is just publishing it.

R11ysf said:

Shmee said:

Please do let me know what the people of PH think I should do to calm the situation, like I've said I try to minimise the number of videos I film of car spotting because I vastly prefer going on road trips and taking cars out on good roads, but this is how it all started for me and one can argue in any business you should try to stay true to your roots because clearly that's what the audience liked to start with.

Well here's a thought, how about you immediately take down all posts of irresponsible behaviour, anything which would be illegal under the new legislation and any crash footage? That would be a start and show how you are trying to be a legitimate car channel, but you won't because of the cash it raise. So we're back to the point above, like it or not you've helped encourage this behaviour of both the spotters and the drivers who get egged on by them.

As I said above, I don't know you and have no animosity towards you (I even thought it funny you find your own presenting style cringy! If Schmee150 is 7 people give on of them a go next time lol!) but there is a fair bit of this whole sorry mess that comes back to you whether you like it or not. Yet on the upside you've started a business which seems to be growing and there are many businesses that started from murky roots so who cares, just don't deny responsibility.

Even were I to start removing videos, the way the internet works is that somebody will just re-upload whatever I took down and it would continue to circulate in exactly the same way - again the algorithms at work. The crash video actually ended up funding a student through significant chunks of his university, and was helpful to all parties and insurance companies involved in the incident - so it's not totally without benefit. I don't think anybody watched that video and thought "Hey this is cool, I'm going to drive to Sloane Square and crash my Lambo on camera", in fact I still don't know how he even managed to have that whole thing shot so precisely - was it planned!?

I've tried to avoid controversial points and just touched on some I can give actual answers to that might be of interest.

KFC said:

The individual videos aren't loss making when there are no real costs attached to them (bear in mind he lives in the area, the cars aren't his, only his time involved in chasing cars up and down the street). Its just more lies and/or half truths from Timmy.

What do you think rent in central London costs, as well as quite a few garage spaces... unless you know something I don't of course! The rest just goes back to what I wrote above, but I have learned to dismiss pretty much anything you write

Juber said:

Little dig at Shmee again.... (nothing against you but you’re a bit of a hypocrite)

I don't run the Facebook page at all, that's done by a marketing team because I'm too busy with more fun stuff like road trips and making vlogs with cars. Although, if a newspaper reports on terrorists, murders or domestic abuse, in the same as a Facebook page posting a piece of content, I do not believe that means they are intentionally encouraging those behaviours although they are giving more exposure to it. I think one way to solve many problems is by raising awareness to the fact it is even a problem in the first place.

[fatboy18]

Angelis said:

swerni said:

No he doesn't. He already stated that it costs more than it makes.

Don't know about him, but my videos definetly cost more to make than the money I get from them which is why I'm trying to cross over into TV.

My video camera alone cost £14,000 and it didn't even come with a lens!

There is a Lens, but you have to remove the lens cover first.....you should try that