What are some dealers up too, I don't get it!!

[Streetrod]

Can someone please explain something to me as I just don’t get it? Why do some car dealers constantly push up the price of a car even though that car may have sat on their forecourt for some times years having never sold?

I am not having a go at a particular dealer here but a classic example of this is a particular white RHD Zonda that seems to have been a permanent feature at this dealer since they opened the business. Over the last 3-4 years the price of this car has risen from just under £800k to £1.75 million having appeared never to have been sold.

Now I could see the justification for this if the market for Zonda’s was very buoyant but it’s not. Most owners don’t sell with few if any cars being available at any one time. So what am I missing here????

By the way I am a massive fan of the Zonda and would snap this car up if I had the money

[tuffer]

How do you know it has never sold? Maybe it has been bought several times and each owner has left it at the garage on Sale or Return? Given the way these cars are appreciating in value this could well be the case.

[JamieBeeston]

Whats his downside.. the money invested in the car? Maybe he has it on a good low rate (or owns it cash!)

All it takes is one newly minted lottery winner, visiting Prince or city guy on a bonus who wants to show off and he has a deal (maybe a haggle to 10-20% off!) but thats still a massive return on the dealers investment..

Your premise assumes people know the price of an asset.. whilst this is maybe true of industry experts, the vast majority of buyers will simply look to secure some discount from the sticker price and be happy!

So it only takes one buyer to make his strategy pay off big, and in the meantime he has an excellent marketing prop and crowd draw in his showroom, all the while ~appreciating~

my 2p anyway

[Cie]

The dealer could want to keep it but use it to drive interest to the business perhaps?

Although the dealer probably has plenty of other stock to drive up interest.

[Beefmeister]

The white Zonda at Supervettura has been sold something like 4 times and has never left the showroom. I spoke to Tommy about it before Xmas.

Each buyer is doing so as an investment, leaving it there for the next fool punter to take it on.

[cgt2]

Because they are on SOR and since they do not have their own money in it they can be as chancey as they like, it only takes one person to buy at an over inflated level and the market changes.

Very few cars are owned outright by dealers.

[Streetrod]

Beefmeister said:

The white Zonda at Supervettura has been sold something like 4 times and has never left the showroom. I spoke to Tommy about it before Xmas.

Each buyer is doing so as an investment, leaving it there for the next fool punter to take it on.

I knew that it had sold once but had no idea that it had sold four times. Would that show up on the registration documents or would the dealer keep it in their name knowing the real owner was only looking to see a rise in their investment? And would having a number of names on the registration document have a detrimental effect on the cars value?

[BelfastBoy]

To echo what some others have already said, I saw the white Zonda on Supervettura's Facebook page and assumed that it had never sold. The reply was: "We have sold this car several times, being an investment vehicle the car has with each new owner enjoyed appreciation with the increase in its market value. This car will be worth a lot more than £1.5m in a few years time that is for sure". This is the way the world works for a great many owners, seems a shame to me but sure, what do I know? Far be it for me to tell people what to do, but personally I think it's a sin that these owners don't even bother driving the car! I'm sure it'd still make them money if they did.

[TWareham]

Streetrod said:

Beefmeister said:

The white Zonda at Supervettura has been sold something like 4 times and has never left the showroom. I spoke to Tommy about it before Xmas.

Each buyer is doing so as an investment, leaving it there for the next fool punter to take it on.

I knew that it had sold once but had no idea that it had sold four times. Would that show up on the registration documents or would the dealer keep it in their name knowing the real owner was only looking to see a rise in their investment? And would having a number of names on the registration document have a detrimental effect on the cars value?

Hello again,

Correct the car has been advertised for a while but also correct the car has been sold a few times. The car has been kept in dealer stock adding no further owners in the registration book however title has passed to each of the new owners. The car has never really been used apart from the occasional exercise and service by us.

Whilst you may not think it worth the money we are asking, fortunately having sold a few of these and through actually buying and successfully selling these types of rare vehicles we have a good understanding of the market. The car has attracted even more attention since the recent price increase and those sitting on the fence have now jumped off. I fully expect the car to find its new owner in the not so distant future.

This car will be worth a lot more than it is advertised today so in my eyes the price is a bargain.

Hope this helps,
BW
Tom

[tuffer]

TWareham said:

This car will be worth a lot more than it is advertised today so in my eyes the price is a bargain.

Tom

You forgot the disclaimer:

Buying, selling and investing in xxxxx is not without risk. Market and economy movement will affect the value and you may get back less than you invest.

[TWareham]

tuffer said:

TWareham said:

This car will be worth a lot more than it is advertised today so in my eyes the price is a bargain.

Tom

You forgot the disclaimer:

Buying, selling and investing in xxxxx is not without risk. Market and economy movement will affect the value and you may get back less than you invest.

Motorsport Can Be Dangerous...

It is all good fun though.

[Davey S2]

BelfastBoy said:

To echo what some others have already said, I saw the white Zonda on Supervettura's Facebook page and assumed that it had never sold. The reply was: "We have sold this car several times, being an investment vehicle the car has with each new owner enjoyed appreciation with the increase in its market value. This car will be worth a lot more than £1.5m in a few years time that is for sure". This is the way the world works for a great many owners, seems a shame to me but sure, what do I know? Far be it for me to tell people what to do, but personally I think it's a sin that these owners don't even bother driving the car! I'm sure it'd still make them money if they did.

+1 If I bought it it would be straight on the Eurostar then have its b0ll0cks thrashed mercilessly all over Europe.

[Streetrod]

TWareham said:

Streetrod said:

Beefmeister said:

The white Zonda at Supervettura has been sold something like 4 times and has never left the showroom. I spoke to Tommy about it before Xmas.

Each buyer is doing so as an investment, leaving it there for the next fool punter to take it on.

I knew that it had sold once but had no idea that it had sold four times. Would that show up on the registration documents or would the dealer keep it in their name knowing the real owner was only looking to see a rise in their investment? And would having a number of names on the registration document have a detrimental effect on the cars value?

Hello again,

Correct the car has been advertised for a while but also correct the car has been sold a few times. The car has been kept in dealer stock adding no further owners in the registration book however title has passed to each of the new owners. The car has never really been used apart from the occasional exercise and service by us.

Whilst you may not think it worth the money we are asking, fortunately having sold a few of these and through actually buying and successfully selling these types of rare vehicles we have a good understanding of the market. The car has attracted even more attention since the recent price increase and those sitting on the fence have now jumped off. I fully expect the car to find its new owner in the not so distant future.

This car will be worth a lot more than it is advertised today so in my eyes the price is a bargain.

Hope this helps,
BW
Tom

Hi Tom

It may sometimes appear that I have a dig at you guys but believe me I am not trying to have go, I am just trying to get my head around how the market for these cars works.

Like Belfast boy I hate to see this wholescale movement towards certain cars becoming an investment instrument. This Zonda being a classic case in point. Its gets bought and sold but never moves from your forecourt which is such a shame as few cars have the road presence and sound of a Zonda in full flight.

If like you say it has sold a number of times I presume the owners are not car fans and are purely looking for a return on their investment. If they had an ounce of petrol in their blood they would at least take it home and place it in a heated garage where they could admire it at their leisure even if they never intend to drive it, such a waste….

[cho]

So if the reg documents, I assume v5 details don't change then how do the new owners prove proof of ownership. Not saying it will happen but if any disputes came up, the car wouldn't legally belong to the new purchaser?

[TWareham]

Streetrod said:

TWareham said:

Streetrod said:

Beefmeister said:

The white Zonda at Supervettura has been sold something like 4 times and has never left the showroom. I spoke to Tommy about it before Xmas.

Each buyer is doing so as an investment, leaving it there for the next fool punter to take it on.

I knew that it had sold once but had no idea that it had sold four times. Would that show up on the registration documents or would the dealer keep it in their name knowing the real owner was only looking to see a rise in their investment? And would having a number of names on the registration document have a detrimental effect on the cars value?

Hello again,

Correct the car has been advertised for a while but also correct the car has been sold a few times. The car has been kept in dealer stock adding no further owners in the registration book however title has passed to each of the new owners. The car has never really been used apart from the occasional exercise and service by us.

Whilst you may not think it worth the money we are asking, fortunately having sold a few of these and through actually buying and successfully selling these types of rare vehicles we have a good understanding of the market. The car has attracted even more attention since the recent price increase and those sitting on the fence have now jumped off. I fully expect the car to find its new owner in the not so distant future.

This car will be worth a lot more than it is advertised today so in my eyes the price is a bargain.

Hope this helps,
BW
Tom

Hi Tom

It may sometimes appear that I have a dig at you guys but believe me I am not trying to have go, I am just trying to get my head around how the market for these cars works.

Like Belfast boy I hate to see this wholescale movement towards certain cars becoming an investment instrument. This Zonda being a classic case in point. Its gets bought and sold but never moves from your forecourt which is such a shame as few cars have the road presence and sound of a Zonda in full flight.

If like you say it has sold a number of times I presume the owners are not car fans and are purely looking for a return on their investment. If they had an ounce of petrol in their blood they would at least take it home and place it in a heated garage where they could admire it at their leisure even if they never intend to drive it, such a waste….

Quite true and we like most people on this forum we are petrol heads, thats mostly why we do what we do! There are easier and more efficient ways to make money than the motor trade!!

However having said that I cannot begin to even tell you how many people this car has put smiles on the faces of. There are not many places in the world you can go and openly view a Zonda and we very much have an open door policy - the young and old car enthusiast's alike love seeing it and when it does finally find a home that is not with us it will be dearly missed by everyone.

Ref. the V5 and ownership - the V5 purely determines the keeper of the car, which in essence is us, we keep and maintain the vehicle. Title (ownership) is passed on by means of sales invoices/purchase orders/money transfers.

[br d]

TWareham said:

Ref. the V5 and ownership - the V5 purely determines the keeper of the car, which in essence is us, we keep and maintain the vehicle. Title (ownership) is passed on by means of sales invoices/purchase orders/money transfers.

so if I walk in tomorrow to buy the car and drive it away how many "previous owners" will it have had?
If they aren't going on the docs it all sounds a bit smoke and mirrors.

[will_]

br d said:

TWareham said:

Ref. the V5 and ownership - the V5 purely determines the keeper of the car, which in essence is us, we keep and maintain the vehicle. Title (ownership) is passed on by means of sales invoices/purchase orders/money transfers.

so if I walk in tomorrow to buy the car and drive it away how many "previous owners" will it have had?
If they aren't going on the docs it all sounds a bit smoke and mirrors.

I'm not sure that is fair - the V5 just records keepers. A car may have many "owners" but not many keepers - how would you ever know how many true "owners" any car has had?

And, if it never leaves the forecourt, what difference would it make anyway that it has been owned by a number of people? Provided the history is complete it doesn't really matter.

[ironictwist]

will_ said:

br d said:

TWareham said:

Ref. the V5 and ownership - the V5 purely determines the keeper of the car, which in essence is us, we keep and maintain the vehicle. Title (ownership) is passed on by means of sales invoices/purchase orders/money transfers.

so if I walk in tomorrow to buy the car and drive it away how many "previous owners" will it have had?
If they aren't going on the docs it all sounds a bit smoke and mirrors.

I'm not sure that is fair - the V5 just records keepers. A car may have many "owners" but not many keepers - how would you ever know how many true "owners" any car has had?

And, if it never leaves the forecourt, what difference would it make anyway that it has been owned by a number of people? Provided the history is complete it doesn't really matter.

This ^ It's not uncommon for certain rare cars (Especially more "global" cars) to have had a number of private owners overall while in that particular country, it may have only had 2 registered owners. It can sometimes be a chore making sure everything tallies paperwork wise let me tell you!

[Craigie]

Just thinking that.

To the leser mortals lime me who drive bog standard cars, the V5 indicates who the vehicle belongs to. If buying privately, you wouldn't pay money to anyone other than the name and address on that document?

[matc]

The V5 isn't proof of ownership. Even states that on the document