Classic/Supercars Not Selling, Prices No Longer Rising.
Discussion
bryn_p said:
AMG Merc said:
Interesting point about VAT being quoted - I think it may have something to do with them not being UK registered yet but not too sure.
As has been said directly above, the VAT will almost certainly have had to have been paid by now. It is payable more or less immediately upon the cars entering the UK. If it hasn't been paid for any reason, it's likely to cause all sorts of problems when it comes to registering the cars in the UK.The dealer can register the car in his name so there is a V5 and there are no problems. If the dealer doesn't register the car there will be a NOVA document and a buyer can register the car in their name.
Jagmanv12 said:
It depends if the car is imported by a dealer or private person. A dealer can reclaim the Vat that he pays on importation. When he sells the car the selling price includes Vat. So Vat is paid to the authorities.
The dealer can register the car in his name so there is a V5 and there are no problems. If the dealer doesn't register the car there will be a NOVA document and a buyer can register the car in their name.
There will only be a NOVA entry (dealers do not get certificates like private imports) if the VAT has been paid. Which the auction listings say it has not.The dealer can register the car in his name so there is a V5 and there are no problems. If the dealer doesn't register the car there will be a NOVA document and a buyer can register the car in their name.
bryn_p said:
Jagmanv12 said:
It depends if the car is imported by a dealer or private person. A dealer can reclaim the Vat that he pays on importation. When he sells the car the selling price includes Vat. So Vat is paid to the authorities.
The dealer can register the car in his name so there is a V5 and there are no problems. If the dealer doesn't register the car there will be a NOVA document and a buyer can register the car in their name.
There will only be a NOVA entry (dealers do not get certificates like private imports) if the VAT has been paid. Which the auction listings say it has not.The dealer can register the car in his name so there is a V5 and there are no problems. If the dealer doesn't register the car there will be a NOVA document and a buyer can register the car in their name.
The auction listings say Vat is payable because I would guess the cars have been imported by dealers and they have reclaimed the Vat. Therefore Vat will be payable by the buyer. The Vatman always wants his pound of flesh.
Jagmanv12 said:
Everybody (dealers and private) have to pay Vat when the car enters the country. It is not cleared by customs until the Vat is paid and therefore cannot be removed from the docks.
The auction listings say Vat is payable because I would guess the cars have been imported by dealers and they have reclaimed the Vat. Therefore Vat will be payable by the buyer. The Vatman always wants his pound of flesh.
Like I said on the previous page The auction listings say Vat is payable because I would guess the cars have been imported by dealers and they have reclaimed the Vat. Therefore Vat will be payable by the buyer. The Vatman always wants his pound of flesh.
100 IAN said:
Just had a quick scan online of auction results for today's Bonhams action at Goodwood Festival of Speed.
Only 49 out of 88 cars are showing as sold... !
I had two cars for sale at that auction. The LHD sold at the lower estimate to Denmark (thanks to the collapse of the £ overnight) and the RHD is back in my garage. I thought the reserve was set at a very realistic price. Clearly not.Only 49 out of 88 cars are showing as sold... !
Timing was clearly not the best and the mood in the tent was somber. But all this did not happen overnight. It was just the catalyst. Speaking to my representative before the auction, he told me they have had a rotten run since late last year and find it difficult to get owners adjust to the new reality, hence the low sale rates.
It will take more time for the market to clear and who knows where that will be. Impeccable cars will sell albeit at a new price, anything average will stick on the forecourt and owners might start using the bloody things as intended.
Mind you this has already happened to me 25 years ago when the bubble popped in 1990. I started buying in 1994 when I had enough money to indulge. Picked up a restored Dino for £45k ( sold at auction 4 years earlier for £180k) and my F40 in 1996 for £170k (a considerable amount of money back then but way below the 1M$+ these cars has commended 6 years earlier). Priced stayed flat for 10 years before slowly moving up again. I put 30k km on the F40 in 10 years, collecting a few speeding fines, parking it in the street from time to time and simply using it. No more speculators around just friends enjoying driving the stuff not worrying about future values or mileage. We had a blast and I wish the same to anyone passionate about cars whatever they are.
See you in the road
Edited by Lerichio on Wednesday 29th June 20:00
Lerichio said:
100 IAN said:
Just had a quick scan online of auction results for today's Bonhams action at Goodwood Festival of Speed.
Only 49 out of 88 cars are showing as sold... !
I had two cars for sale at that auction. The LHD sold at the lower estimate to Denmark (thanks to the collapse of the £ overnight) and the RHD is back in my garage. I thought the reserve was set at a very realistic price. Clearly not.Only 49 out of 88 cars are showing as sold... !
Timing was clearly not the best and the mood in the tent was somber. But all this did not happen overnight. It was just the catalyst. Speaking to my representative before the auction, he told me they have had a rotten run since late last year and find it difficult to get owners adjust to the new reality, hence the low sale rates.
It will take more time for the market to clear and who knows where that will be. Impeccable cars will sell albeit at a new price, anything average will stick on the forecourt and owners might start using the bloody things as intended.
Mind you this has already happened to me 25 years ago when the bubble popped in 1990. I started buying in 1994 when I had enough money to indulge. Picked up a restored Dino for £45k ( sold at auction 4 years earlier for £180k) and my F40 in 1996 for £170k (a considerable amount of money back then but way below the 1M$+ these cars has commended 6 years earlier). Priced stayed flat for 10 years before slowly moving up again. I put 30k km on the F40 in 10 years, collecting a few speeding fines, parking it in the street from time to time and simply using it. No more speculators around just friends enjoying driving the stuff not worrying about future values or mileage. We had a blast and I wish the same to anyone passionate about cars whatever they are.
See you in the road
Edited by Lerichio on Wednesday 29th June 20:00
May I ask which cars in the auction were yours?
I agree that there was little "atmosphere" in the tent on Friday, although a few things did surprise me overall it was clear that the market was fairly flat that day. Given its history the Le Mans Aston sold fairly "light" in my view.
Lerichio said:
... I put 30k km on the F40 in 10 years, collecting a few speeding fines, parking it in the street from time to time and simply using it. No more speculators around just friends enjoying driving the stuff not worrying about future values or mileage. We had a blast and I wish the same to anyone passionate about cars whatever they are.
See you in the road
post of the month! See you in the road
Edited by Lerichio on Wednesday 29th June 20:00
will_ said:
Great story, let's hope that's the new reality. Do you still have the F40?
May I ask which cars in the auction were yours?
I agree that there was little "atmosphere" in the tent on Friday, although a few things did surprise me overall it was clear that the market was fairly flat that day. Given its history the Le Mans Aston sold fairly "light" in my view.
I was there. Interesting to see a lot of familiar trade faces there who might usually bid over the phone...I guess it's the other attractions that bring them out. I thought that half the cars were below average, either on history, mileage or condition. A lot didn't sell and deservedly so, given their reserves.May I ask which cars in the auction were yours?
I agree that there was little "atmosphere" in the tent on Friday, although a few things did surprise me overall it was clear that the market was fairly flat that day. Given its history the Le Mans Aston sold fairly "light" in my view.
Coys sent me through the catalogue for Blenheim today. Lots of lhd, VAT payable cars...look cheap until one adds in the VAT and I wonder what history comes with these 12,000 mile examples?
I love the post from the F40 owing chap. Is he the guy with the Essex Lotus Sunbeam?
This made me chuckle
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-pari...
Seems just a complete money making exercise for Ferrari and their special clientele.
"Ferrari boss Sergio Marchionne addressed the overdemand for special editions at the Cavalcade closing dinner, saying his work with Galliera on determining who receives which cars was “probably the most difficult part of what I do”.
“It is painful, it is something I wish I did not have to do, but it is required by the brand, and so if there is anyone in this audience here I might have mistreated in this process I apologise upfront. Just keep in mind these limited edition cars will come again and we will make sure we will remedy any wrong doings at that time.”"
So if you missed out at the golden trough then we will sort you out next time.
Wonder what Enzo thinks of this. I thought he only sold cars to go racing?
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-pari...
Seems just a complete money making exercise for Ferrari and their special clientele.
"Ferrari boss Sergio Marchionne addressed the overdemand for special editions at the Cavalcade closing dinner, saying his work with Galliera on determining who receives which cars was “probably the most difficult part of what I do”.
“It is painful, it is something I wish I did not have to do, but it is required by the brand, and so if there is anyone in this audience here I might have mistreated in this process I apologise upfront. Just keep in mind these limited edition cars will come again and we will make sure we will remedy any wrong doings at that time.”"
So if you missed out at the golden trough then we will sort you out next time.
Wonder what Enzo thinks of this. I thought he only sold cars to go racing?
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