Classic/Supercars Not Selling, Prices No Longer Rising.

[100 IAN]

Talking to someone 'on the inside' of the auction world he says prices are no longer going up and sellers are setting unrealistic reserves.

Judging by yesterday's auction results at Historics at Brooklands I think he's right.

http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2016-06...

2004 Lamborghini Gallardo, estimate £35-45k, sold £58,240
1985 Porsche 911SSE ‘Supersport’, estimate £48 - £56k, UNSOLD
1966 Mercedes Benz 230SL Pagoda, estimate £58 - £66k, sold £63,840
1978 Aston Martin V8 Volante, estimate £58 - £70k, sold £42,200 (Well below estimate)
1992 Porsche 964RS, estimate £120 - £140k, sold £134,400
1954 Jaguar XK120SE Roadster, estimate £95 - £110k, UNSOLD
1963 Alfa Romeo Guilia 1600SS, estimate £80 - £100k, sold £89,600
1963 Jaguar E-Type Series I Roadster, estimate £130 - £150k, sold £130,000
1962 Mercedes Benz 190SL Roadster, estimate £95 - £100k, sold £100,800
1964 Apollo 5000GT, estimate £100 - £120k, UNSOLD
1962 Porsche 356B 1600S T6 Convertible, estimate £86 - ££96k, sold £118,720
1968 Alfa Romeo GTA 1300 Junior, estimate £98 - £110k, UNSOLD
1967 Aston Martin DB6 Vantage, estimate £250 - £290k, UNSOLD
1989 Ferrari Testarossa, estimate £95 - £110k, UNSOLD
2001 Ferrari 550 Barchetta, estimate £230 - £260k, UNSOLD
1995 lamborghini Diablo VT, estimate £160 - £190k, UNSOLD
1981 Ferrari 308 GTS, estimate £90 - £110k, UNSOLD
2009 Ferrari Scuderia 16M, estimate £185 - £225k, UNSOLD
2003 Ferrari 575M F1, estimate £75 - £85k, UNSOLD
2005 Lamborghini Murcielago Roadster, estimate £95 - £110k, UNSOLD
1988 Porsche 911 (930) Turbo Targa Flatnose, estimate £62 - £70k, sold £61,600
2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS4.0, estimate £220 - £270k, UNSOLD
1989 Porsche 911 Turbo-body Speedster, estimate £145 - £180k, UNSOLD
1991 Ferrari Testarosa, estimate £120 - £140, sold £159,040
1994 Aston Martin Virage ‘Widebody’ Volante 6.3L, estimate £85 - £110k, UNSOLD
1991 Aston Martin Virage, estimate £48 - £55k, UNSOLD
1999 Ferrari 355 F1 Spider, estimate £52 - £58k, UNSOLD

[andrew]

similar c50% sold rate for bonhams in newport pagnell last month

[Juno]

Pleased to see the Gallardo did well

[W12GT]

I had a conversation with a chap in the trade this weekend and he told me the same thing; apparently the rarer 911's on the market have slowed down massively and he has witnessed a number of 991 & 997 GT3s /RSs that have had to shed over 30k to sell. They are however still selling for large sums of money and anyone who bought more than 12 months ago should be ok.

I can't say I'm surprised but I can't see it unsettle long the market too much- then again I've always lost a shed load on cars so I am not an expert!

[simonr100]

Now you have confused me even more.

I had been seeing prices slowly fall and had been waiting for a larger fall before buying another but recently I have just thought f**k it and buy a car I love, after all I could be dead tomorrow......

Maybe I am just being greedy- I only need one nice car and I should be content......

[TISPKJ]

Juno said:

Pleased to see the Gallardo did well

Frightening that an 04 car with no or little history makes that kind of money

[jw01]

Not surprised by auction result. Much of this down to EU debate. Couple of mates in housing markets saying the same.
People are waiting to see what happens next week!

[Camlet]

Lots of boats (for example the Dino) were floated by the rising tide that came in during 2013. Now the tide is going out, Brexit is only a blip there's a massive global debt crisis that now includes China, and the crisis is unresolved. The money supply hosepipe has been switched off.

Current owners who expect 2014-ish prices are living in a dream world. Dealers will be trying to maximise the spread - buying low selling high making the problem worse. And buyers who think they are about to snap up a bargain, that's an illusion too; be prepared to catch a falling knife.

I don't expect prices to collapse at the highest end (they will soften) because cash earns nothing and these owners will ride out storms but you will need to have the very best boats.

Better still, as in 2011, only buy what you want to drive. If you've leveraged yourself heavily assuming the post 2013 tide was going to keep rising, I would start looking for the exit.

[larrylamb11]

Camlet said:

Lots of boats (for example the Dino) were floated by the rising tide that came in during 2013. Now the tide is going out, Brexit is only a blip there's a massive global debt crisis that now includes China, and the crisis is unresolved. The money supply hosepipe has been switched off.

Current owners who expect 2014-ish prices are living in a dream world. Dealers will be trying to maximise the spread - buying low selling high making the problem worse. And buyers who think they are about to snap up a bargain, that's an illusion too; be prepared to catch a falling knife.

I don't expect prices to collapse at the highest end (they will soften) because cash earns nothing and these owners will ride out storms but you will need to have the very best boats.

Better still, as in 2011, only buy what you want to drive. If you've leveraged yourself heavily assuming the post 2013 tide was going to keep rising, I would start looking for the exit.

This is very much in line with my view.

[diametric123]

Funnily enough I think its actually Private sellers - rather than Dealers - that are keeping up the expectation of higher values

Take the 3.2 Speedster above - it was for sale with Porsche Leicester for months, then got switched over to Graypaul - asking price went from above £130k and I think it ended up selling for between £110-115k. Four weeks later it appears at auction with an asking price of £145-180k! The market for Speedsters is tiny - and if you wanted one you could have bought it from the main dealer at a much lower price instead

As you look across PH many of the most bullish prices are being pushed by Private sellers - talk to dealers and they will tell you that top prices are being asked only on consigned stock - they are actively dropping prices on dealer-owned stock just to maintain cash-flow

My gut feel is that the realisation of lower prices is now seeping through to the Private market - I made an offer on a piece of consigned stock last week that I expected to get laughed out of court immediately, but the seller is actively considering it...

[Ferruccio]

Some sellers have just got too greedy. Lost track of reality with what are sometimes quite numerously produced cars.
Every bubble pops at some stage. The key is when it next overtakes those highs.
After the late eighties car price bubble, it took 20 years.

[phib]

Camlet said:

Lots of boats (for example the Dino) were floated by the rising tide that came in during 2013. Now the tide is going out, Brexit is only a blip there's a massive global debt crisis that now includes China, and the crisis is unresolved. The money supply hosepipe has been switched off.

Current owners who expect 2014-ish prices are living in a dream world. Dealers will be trying to maximise the spread - buying low selling high making the problem worse. And buyers who think they are about to snap up a bargain, that's an illusion too; be prepared to catch a falling knife.

I don't expect prices to collapse at the highest end (they will soften) because cash earns nothing and these owners will ride out storms but you will need to have the very best boats.

Better still, as in 2011, only buy what you want to drive. If you've leveraged yourself heavily assuming the post 2013 tide was going to keep rising, I would start looking for the exit.

Agree with this too !! especially " Only buy what you want to drive" !!!

As for houses we are still investing but we are in it for the long term so merely see this as a blip !!

Phib

[rubystone]

Surely the auction house is thr adviser when it comes to setting reserves? Or are they being greedy and accepting any car regardless of quality or realistic price?

A lot of metal that goes to auction often comes up short in some department or other. Scant history, fresh paint, lhd...

[topless360]

100 IAN said:

2009 Ferrari Scuderia 16M, estimate £185 - £225k, UNSOLD

Surprised at this, I thought they were going for £300k++. Anyone know what the reserve was that it failed to make?

[Bluebottle911]

simonr100 said:

. . . but recently I have just thought f**k it and buy a car I love, after all I could be dead tomorrow......

Me, too, and in the immortal words of the late Edith Piaf, je ne regrette rien!!

[treetops]

I posted about this weeks ago. It's over the bubble has already burst, thin end of wedge just now.

[Russell996]

topless360 said:

Surprised at this, I thought they were going for £300k++. Anyone know what the reserve was that it failed to make?

LHD

[Bo_apex]

Interesting that the '91 Testarossa and 964 RS both sold at healthy price

[911Thrasher]

Bo_apex said:

Interesting that the '91 Testarossa and 964 RS both sold at healthy price

964RS low mileage but also fully repainted I guess from pictures: missing paper stickers in the engine bay
So yes agreed that is a healthy price for it

[cgt2]

Bo_apex said:

Interesting that the '91 Testarossa and 964 RS both sold at healthy price

Perhaps because rarer than most of the other cars on offer?

From memory the very late Testas always commanded a healthy premium over early ones as it was a more sorted car after 7 years of development, even though the single mirror and single hub examples looked cooler.