Classic/Supercars Not Selling, Prices No Longer Rising.

[cgt2]

MRPULLHARD said:

Kahn autos in Bradford have a lot of lhd Italian exotica , not sure how well they are selling though . Are these cars from Japan ? Testarossas and F512 seem to have been popular in japan

Of which nearly every single car has been for sale over a year with the catchy strapline ''To all investors and speculators''.

Their stock appears to be exactly the same month after month so Mr Khan may rethink cheap LHD imports as a business strategy and stick to cannibalising Range Rovers for the footballer audience.

[MRPULLHARD]

they are from japan though right ? think he might have sold some stock to Tom Hartleys , who have a a F512 TR and 550 marnello which look to be jap imports.

[9six4]

I'm based in Tokyo, and for the past 2-years, people I know in the motor trade have been exporting Ferraris to Europe as fast as they can source them - it's been very profitable for them.

Japanese owners don't put the same emphasis on service history as in the UK as a consequence of the shaken (MOT equivalent) being so tough. If a car has a valid shaken it is going to be in good condition...

[ironictwist]

9six4 said:

I'm based in Tokyo, and for the past 2-years, people I know in the motor trade have been exporting Ferraris to Europe as fast as they can source them - it's been very profitable for them.

Japanese owners don't put the same emphasis on service history as in the UK as a consequence of the shaken (MOT equivalent) being so tough. If a car has a valid shaken it is going to be in good condition...

& having visited a number of Japanese collectors on behalf of customers, I second that. Different mentality on paperwork, although because of the surge in European/Western demand...Many have realised that it's worthwhile keeping paperwork as it's all "us lot" ever ask for when over there viewing

Amazing market however...Looking forward to going back again very soon, many many gems & the most wonderful people.

[MRPULLHARD]

assume they get their cars serviced on time though ? surely the service agent/ dealer has history of cars ?
Target cars in Holland who have something of a reputation on ph, are now jap. import specialists - some very interesting stock - Ferraris , Porsche 968s, rare and interesting Bmws and rolls Royce silver seraphs etc.

[cgt2]

I thought Japanese cars tend to sit in collections and not get driven much?

A friend bought a Diablo in from Japan which hadn't turned a wheel in seven years. He thought he had picked up the bargain of the century but after extensive recommissioning it ended up owing him slightly more than a proper Euro car would have.

[EpsomJames]

So the conclusion is that the auction was for mostly imports with little in the way of paperwork, and that hasn't interested investors?

I'm not sure what (if anything) to make of that.

[simonr100]

The sooner that the investors leave the market and owners drive the cars the better. They shouldn't be locked away- that is a crime.....
Hopefully prices will continue to fall.

[EpsomJames]

simonr100 said:

The sooner that the investors leave the market and owners drive the cars the better. They shouldn't be locked away- that is a crime.....
Hopefully prices will continue to fall.

What fall? I'm not seeing any evidence of this in classic and supercar market.

Will be talking to owner of one of the biggest supercar garages tomorrow (as friend rather than client) so will ask him what he's seeing.

[Nano2nd]

EpsomJames said:

What fall? I'm not seeing any evidence of this in classic and supercar market.

Will be talking to owner of one of the biggest supercar garages tomorrow (as friend rather than client) so will ask him what he's seeing.

interesting to hear there thoughts, there seems to be an increasing number of people trying to talk the market down on various internet forums lol

[rubystone]

F355GTS said:

Wonder if the yellow is original colour? I saw one being painted about 2 Years ago at Dick Lovett's, think it was TdF or Silverstone before

I think that one is, Mark. But I am aware of another that was colour changed to Giallo.

[rubystone]

will_ said:

In my experience conventionally the reserve is usually below the bottom estimate - otherwise the buyers complain that they'd bid within the estimate but haven't been able to buy the car.

I don't recall ever seeing a car bid to above the bottom estimate and not sell because they've failed to reach the reserve.

In my experience, reserve is generally mid-way between the lower and higher ends of the estimate. What you may have seen is the auctioneer exercising his judgement to sell a car by trimming his commission. That happens a lot and I've bought several cars that have failed to meet reserve but been bid above lower estimate.

[930gaz]

Khan, do they sell anything as when I started out looking for a Ferrari over two years ago the same cars are still there now, not sure what the cost was on the cars two years ago to what they are now.

Just sold my 360 to a dealer and was very happy with what I took for it, will keep an eye on how long they have it,

[simonr100]

EpsomJames said:

What fall? I'm not seeing any evidence of this in classic and supercar market.

Will be talking to owner of one of the biggest supercar garages tomorrow (as friend rather than client) so will ask him what he's seeing.

Go back to the start of the thread and read...... Keep an eye on adverts and see reductions and cars that haven't sold for many months.

[9six4]

MRPULLHARD said:

assume they get their cars serviced on time though ? surely the service agent/ dealer has history of cars ?
Target cars in Holland who have something of a reputation on ph, are now jap. import specialists - some very interesting stock - Ferraris , Porsche 968s, rare and interesting Bmws and rolls Royce silver seraphs etc.

Yes, most will be serviced on time. But due to strict privacy/data protection legislation, the servicing dealer will not release any car specific details without consent from the owner of the car at the time of a particular service.

This makes pulling together paperwork next to impossible, unless you are buying from the first owner.

[9six4]

ironictwist said:

& having visited a number of Japanese collectors on behalf of customers, I second that. Different mentality on paperwork, although because of the surge in European/Western demand...Many have realised that it's worthwhile keeping paperwork as it's all "us lot" ever ask for when over there viewing

Amazing market however...Looking forward to going back again very soon, many many gems & the most wonderful people.

Yes, very nice people. And some amazing cars hidden away in private collections....

[roygarth]

930gaz said:

Khan, do they sell anything as when I started out looking for a Ferrari over two years ago the same cars are still there now, not sure what the cost was on the cars two years ago to what they are now.

I was wondering the same thing. The cost of running that showroom and staff must be very high and they don't seem to sell many cars.

[930gaz]

roygarth said:

I was wondering the same thing. The cost of running that showroom and staff must be very high and they don't seem to sell many cars.

Guess it's the Range Rover that keep them going, sure they will be good cars look good on Internet, but you never know.

You would think even the 355 would of gone, over two years. Crazy,

[PorkInsider]

roygarth said:

930gaz said:

Khan, do they sell anything as when I started out looking for a Ferrari over two years ago the same cars are still there now, not sure what the cost was on the cars two years ago to what they are now.

I was wondering the same thing. The cost of running that showroom and staff must be very high and they don't seem to sell many cars.

Don't know how they've ever kept running.

Go back circa 17 years when all they had was a shop on a trading estate in Bradford selling wheels and exhausts, etc, to young lads. They constantly had a collection of super cars outside the premises, often wearing plates implying they belonged to Khan.

I also recall visiting the rundown shop they used to have nearer the centre of Bradford (again before they started ruining Range Rovers etc) to collect a part for a friend. They had a pair of matching black RR Phantoms in the car park. This being when the Phantom had just launched.

[ironictwist]

9six4 said:

ironictwist said:

& having visited a number of Japanese collectors on behalf of customers, I second that. Different mentality on paperwork, although because of the surge in European/Western demand...Many have realised that it's worthwhile keeping paperwork as it's all "us lot" ever ask for when over there viewing

Amazing market however...Looking forward to going back again very soon, many many gems & the most wonderful people.

Yes, very nice people. And some amazing cars hidden away in private collections....

Ain't that the truth...One of my best memories is being 2hrs outside of Tokyo viewing an offmarket collector owned 365BB RHD, going for a test drive with the mechanic that's serviced the car all it's life in JP, nothing quite like an evening hoon in a BB through Japanese countryside & a mechanic who knows the car inside out.

Couldn't speak a word of english...But thumbs ups, OK & Faster Faster is all you need to know sometimes

Will nudge you when I'm next there Andy as I should be there for a more extended period in the coming months! Always good to meet other PH'ers

Edited by ironictwist on Saturday 18th June 15:23