What to buy....

[Nijius Maximus]

MDL111 said:

I am not sure ceramics will give you better braking performance on the road in the UK (slowish speeds, no big mountain passes with lots of hard downhill braking). Still am a big fan of ceramics, so would always have them if available.

Steels are FAR cheaper to replace though (hence glad mine has them).. And from what I've heard they're still solid for braking performance.

[simonr100]

Funnily enough the cost of replacing the ceramics was one of the first things I asked Andy when I was admiring his car at the Supercar meet at BH. He mentioned that there are now companies that refurbish which is cheaper.
I have never driven a car with CC brakes so will be interested to see what they are like.

[cgt2]

I was one of the first people on this forum to use Sicom CCB refurbishment and shared my experiences here.

All in, it cost me around £2k to get my front discs refurbed and new pads on the Ferrari.

Considering how much better ceramics are to steels and much longer lifespan overall, I would always go for ceramics now if I had an equal choice.

Steel brakes can actually work out more costly. Certainly in my case they would have.

[Bispal]

simonr100 said:

Thanks for the reply, very helpful to know they were only options on the 12C. Whatever I buy I won't be taking it on a track. I just want to enjoy it on the roads, maybe a European trip etc.

Hi Simon, I bought my 12C coupe 6 months ago and I was in a similar situation. I chose the 12C because I truly believed it had done most or even all of its depreciating and that was important to me. I looked at many and in the end went for white, a solid colour, as Volcano can be difficult to colour match if chipped or scratched.

I haven't taken mine on track yet but I have just returned from a European trip and can't emphasise enough how great the car was, fast, comfortable, spacious, economical and thumbs up everywhere. (See my separate post)

I wanted a supercar I could drive with my wife and go on trips in while protecting my investment and the 12C ticked all those boxes. It may not be as loud as some others but it's fine for me and I am not a fan of super loud cars, been there, done that and I'm over it, however it does make a lovely noise.

If you get the warranty then you can sleep at nights as everything is taken care of, there are some things to watch out for and there are certain spec items that will make resale better.

[simonr100]

Bispal said:

Hi Simon, I bought my 12C coupe 6 months ago and I was in a similar situation. I chose the 12C because I truly believed it had done most or even all of its depreciating and that was important to me. I looked at many and in the end went for white, a solid colour, as Volcano can be difficult to colour match if chipped or scratched.

I haven't taken mine on track yet but I have just returned from a European trip and can't emphasise enough how great the car was, fast, comfortable, spacious, economical and thumbs up everywhere. (See my separate post)

I wanted a supercar I could drive with my wife and go on trips in while protecting my investment and the 12C ticked all those boxes. It may not be as loud as some others but it's fine for me and I am not a fan of super loud cars, been there, done that and I'm over it, however it does make a lovely noise.

If you get the warranty then you can sleep at nights as everything is taken care of, there are some things to watch out for and there are certain spec items that will make resale better.

Thankyou very much for your input, that's great.

[isaldiri]

MDL111 said:

I am not sure ceramics will give you better braking performance on the road in the UK (slowish speeds, no big mountain passes with lots of hard downhill braking). Still am a big fan of ceramics, so would always have them if available.

Tyre grip determines braking performance on these sorts of road cars not type of brake material.

The 12c ceramics were iirc an £8k option but I found them pretty grabby (650 ceramics much better in this respect) and I track the car quite a lot so never considered them and am quite happy with the iron rotors/pagid pads I have on. I keep on wanting to try and get Alcon/AP to make me a thicker slotted iron rotor but never quite get motivated enough to get around to it....

[Nijius Maximus]

BishBosh said:

Car looks fantastic. I got mine from Birmingham. Enjoy....

Just returned from a trip into France and the amount of interest shown in the car was phenomenal...all positive too if not ever so slightly embarrassing each time I returned to the car there was one or two people taking pictures.

Thanks mate - it looks even better in the flesh. Birmingham dealer were really good as well. Got some really nice cars there - a lot of non McLarens as well.

Can't wait to experience driving it around. I live in Central London so there's always a lot of tourists around and get good reactions in my Aston. Curious to see how the McLaren compares...

Definitely want to do a European drive in this one as well...


Simon: how goes it? Any updates? This Saturday is the day for me for pickup...

[simonr100]

Nijius Maximus said:

Simon: how goes it? Any updates? This Saturday is the day for me for pickup...

I am going to look at the weekend I need to check that I fit comfortably in the cars on my shortlist - I am 6 foot 6.

I will update soon

[MDL111]

isaldiri said:

MDL111 said:

I am not sure ceramics will give you better braking performance on the road in the UK (slowish speeds, no big mountain passes with lots of hard downhill braking). Still am a big fan of ceramics, so would always have them if available.

Tyre grip determines braking performance on these sorts of road cars not type of brake material.

The 12c ceramics were iirc an £8k option but I found them pretty grabby (650 ceramics much better in this respect) and I track the car quite a lot so never considered them and am quite happy with the iron rotors/pagid pads I have on. I keep on wanting to try and get Alcon/AP to make me a thicker slotted iron rotor but never quite get motivated enough to get around to it....

Agreed generally yes, but on the Autobahn in fast in-traffic driving where you constantly go from Low 100s to high 200s and back, tyre grip is not your problem - surprisingly happens quite a lot and on a big barge like mine with 2 tonnes to brake the rotors do get hot - even on lighter and slower cars steels could quickly get to the limit - so I can see a clear safety benefit of ceramics. I can see why you would not want them on a track car due to cost, but if cost is not a primary decision factor / useage pattern is less extreme, then I dont see why you would choose steels over a good ceramic setup

Edit: i will probably change my mind when I first have to replace discs and can't get them refurbed

Edited by MDL111 on Wednesday 6th July 19:44

[isaldiri]

MDL111 said:

surprisingly happens quite a lot and on a big barge like mine with 2 tonnes to brake the rotors do get hot - even on lighter and slower cars steels could quickly get to the limit - so I can see a clear safety benefit of ceramics. I can see why you would not want them on a track car due to cost, but if cost is not a primary decision factor / useage pattern is less extreme, then I dont see why you would choose steels over a good ceramic setup

Not sure I agree there I have to admit. With a decent trackday pad, thermal capacity is not the issue imo as iron has much more capacity to absorb heat per unit of weight and tbh I'd back that to keep on going a good while after the ceramic rotor gets too hot and starts to oxidize. Gt3/Cup racing cars use iron rotors perfectly fine after all. The real advantage of ceramics is lighter (and unsprung) weight only rather than braking capability.

[MDL111]

isaldiri said:

MDL111 said:

surprisingly happens quite a lot and on a big barge like mine with 2 tonnes to brake the rotors do get hot - even on lighter and slower cars steels could quickly get to the limit - so I can see a clear safety benefit of ceramics. I can see why you would not want them on a track car due to cost, but if cost is not a primary decision factor / useage pattern is less extreme, then I dont see why you would choose steels over a good ceramic setup

Not sure I agree there I have to admit. With a decent trackday pad, thermal capacity is not the issue imo as iron has much more capacity to absorb heat per unit of weight and tbh I'd back that to keep on going a good while after the ceramic rotor gets too hot and starts to oxidize. Gt3/Cup racing cars use iron rotors perfectly fine after all. The real advantage of ceramics is lighter (and unsprung) weight only rather than braking capability.

I don't know enough and don't track cars so you are very likely correct. Can only say that my 355 (standard and track pads and standard rotors) and my Z3 M Coupe (all standard) with steels both eventually overheated - both clearly older and likely not the best available brakes. While the GT2 and FF on ceramics were fine (both substantially faster, so a lot more braking). Unsprung weight will be the reason why I will closely look at ceramics for my project 355 (if that ever comes to fruition) after doing everything cheaper to lose weight, will need to get exact weight data to see how big the benefit is.

Don't want to derail the thread further.

[simonr100]

I am going to look at a McLaren at the weekend, any advice on what to look for or what sort of deal I should try to get. I will be paying cash so I know I won't get as good a deal as financing it as they won't take their cut.
Thanks in advance

[Bispal]

simonr100 said:

I am going to look at a McLaren at the weekend, any advice on what to look for or what sort of deal I should try to get. I will be paying cash so I know I won't get as good a deal as financing it as they won't take their cut.
Thanks in advance

Hi Simon, a few things to think about, none serious just niggles that will always be sorted under warranty.

1. Check the paint for any chips, the special paints (volcano / mso) can be difficult to match so try hard to get any blemishes rectified.
2. Also get down on your knees and check the lower parts for lacquer peel, again they should fix this, it happens occasionally.
3. Does the car have paint protection? With the special colours paint is expensive, McLaren do not share paint codes so they are a pain to match and protection is therefore a good idea on the special colours. You might just get away with it on solid colours.
4. Make sure the doors open and close ok, the ‘magic’ doors have pros & cons, they can be great but also tempremental. Sometimes the latches catch, all can be repaired under warranty and it’s a common issue.
5. You should get 1 year warranty included with MCL, if you think you will keep it longer you can get a discount on the second year. This is worth taking out as you will save around £1,000. The warranty is transferable in a private sale or SOR. If you buy from a non McL dealer you will need to wait 3 months to buy a warranty from McL and pay extra for an inspection. If you buy privately or SoR the warranty can be transferred for £80.
6. The Iris (2) hardware upgrade is a lot better but the sat-nav is still not as good as your phone. Make sure the hardware has been updated and not just the software. The updated hardware has a icons to each of the 4 iris buttons, the original only has 2 icons.
8. Check for parking sensors, these are a bonus but fine without. The reversing camera is no good (as portrait) so no need to worry about that.
9. Do check all the lights, front & rear, for condensation, it’s very common and is replaced under warranty.
10. Make sure you have all the handbooks, some previous owners try to keep them. There should be 3 pamphlet style in the car and another A5 hardback one. Check the battery charger and tyre sealant are in the front boot. There was also options for warning triangles etc. just see what is there.
11. Open the front boot and look carefully at the leading edge on the inside for tiny rust bubbles, if there are some they will replace under warranty.
12. Also check the wiper arms for rust.
13. Make sure the usb cable and the aux power lead (cigarette lighter style next to the cup holders) have power.
14. When you drive check for dashboard noises or any creaking. If there are some creaks they can be fixed under warranty.
15. There should be a tracker, make certain as you will need one for insurance.
16. Make sure all upgrades / campaigns have been carried out

The first few I drove I thought the power delivery was a little jerky. Most salesman will put the car in sport/sport and you need to be 'on-it' a bit for this to work smoothly, on a constant throttle it may appear jerky. Put it in normal for cruising and it will be nice and smooth. Its one of the few cars where the settings actually work and are appropriate.

Options can affect the price a lot. Carbon interior is almost a must for re-sale, personally I think the aluminium looks nice but 99% of people want carbon, if you do get an aluminium interior make sure its appropriately priced. Same with the mesh style seats.

Be wary of contrasting stitching on the dashboard top, it will reflect on the windscreen and can be annoying. You can wear polorizing sunglasses to get rid of this then you wont see the iris screen. Again not a deal breaker.

Carbon in engine bay is nice, so is front and rear splitter. Carbon to the door sills is also nice but I wouldn't worry too much. The carbon wheel arches (visible when doors are open) are prone to breaking and expensive to replace. Keep this in mind with carbon, looks nice but it is v.v.v. expensive if broken.

You don't need lift on an early 12C's, it came on the spiders but it is not necessary on coupes,in fact I don't think it was an available option until the spiders were introduced. Do check underneath at the front and rear (esp. if carbon) that there are no deep gouges.

Sports exhaust, up to you, its louder outside not inside, adds no power.

There are 4 types of wheels, Standard, 5 twin spokes / lightweight forged (commonly known as penis wheels and 5 spoke) / lightweight forged 2 (5 spoke) / super light weight forged (10 spoke). The super lights are very expensive, £4,000 each from McL, so if it has these you are lucky, however they are softer so if you are offered the 3 years tyre and wheel insurance for £450 take it, if not ask for it. You can see the wheels here http://cars.mclaren.com/12c-design

Mileage is not too important, there are different theories, ultra low mileage may have perished rubbers esp.in the gearbox, high mileages seem to have no issues but people worry about resale, there are many over 20,000 and even 30,000 and I estimate a value of £1 mile. base price from a McL dealer for a 2012 should be £120,000 for 20,000 miles, warranty and good spec (some carbon, carbon interior, upgraded iris) adjust either way depending on condition and who you buy it from. When negotiating I would start with £5k off the advertised price and go from there, don't be surprised if you end up with just a £1,000 off to seal the deal as there are not many cars around, remember they make money on finance so not much scope for cash discounts. I wouldn't be concerned about age, 2011/12/13, buy on condition and spec.

Buy from McL or Alastair Bols if you want peace of mind.

I am not an expert by the way, just an owner with my own experiences and insight gained from other owners. Therefore above are amateur observations.

Hope that helps and good luck :-)

Edited by Bispal on Friday 8th July 08:31

Edited by Bispal on Friday 8th July 08:36

Edited by Bispal on Friday 8th July 08:44

[stain]

That's an excellent buyers guide you have written there. I'm surprised how many potential areas for rust and deterioration there are on such young cars though. I presume Mcl have upgraded parts and processes on an ongoing basis. I looked at a 12c at Ascot and most of the mesh grilles had gone rusty. It all felt a bit 'TVR'.

[Bispal]

stain said:

That's an excellent buyers guide you have written there. I'm surprised how many potential areas for rust and deterioration there are on such young cars though. I presume Mcl have upgraded parts and processes on an ongoing basis. I looked at a 12c at Ascot and most of the mesh grilles had gone rusty. It all felt a bit 'TVR'.

Thanks Stain. Its generally just under the leading edge of the bonnet but remember its aluminium so its not that bad. Also the wiper arms. The hubs can also rust but there is not much else that can as most is carbon plastic composites.

It is the best screwed together and quality car i have owned or been in, i would put it on par with RR / Bentley, even better than Porsche, so these are tiny niggles from a young company.

I am getting some more advice from fellow owners and we hope to post a full and proper 12C and 650s buyers guide soon.

Edited by Bispal on Friday 8th July 08:29

[TISPKJ]

Just to add to BISPAL's list is the Carbon brake option, this alone was a £10k option at launch so a nice to have.
Forgetting the various pros and cons of steel v carbon, one of the nice things is that in normal use you get nearly zero dust on the wheels and the side of the car.

[TISPKJ]

stain said:

That's an excellent buyers guide you have written there. I'm surprised how many potential areas for rust and deterioration there are on such young cars though. I presume Mcl have upgraded parts and processes on an ongoing basis. I looked at a 12c at Ascot and most of the mesh grilles had gone rusty. It all felt a bit 'TVR'.

To be fair I think it depends on use, mine is a 10k 2012 car, garage queen if you like and has none of those issues, but its treated like a baby and cleaned properly after each use.

I am sure if you use in all weathers and let the local car wash spray wheels and vents with acid cleaner then the likes of the grills and rads etc will corrode given time.

[Bluebottle911]

RamboLambo said:

the brand doesn't currently have the same scale of status/pedigree/heritage.

A company founded by Bruce McLaren, with the F1 in its back catalogue, and its history of success in F1, CanAm and at Le Mans, has status, pedigree and heritage aplenty. I just don't like the way they look, but that's merely a matter of personal choice (I don't like the look of post-Miura Lamborghinis either).

[SELON]

Nijius Maximus said:

BishBosh said:

Car looks fantastic. I got mine from Birmingham. Enjoy....

Just returned from a trip into France and the amount of interest shown in the car was phenomenal...all positive too if not ever so slightly embarrassing each time I returned to the car there was one or two people taking pictures.

Thanks mate - it looks even better in the flesh. Birmingham dealer were really good as well. Got some really nice cars there - a lot of non McLarens as well.

Can't wait to experience driving it around. I live in Central London so there's always a lot of tourists around and get good reactions in my Aston. Curious to see how the McLaren compares...

Definitely want to do a European drive in this one as well...


Simon: how goes it? Any updates? This Saturday is the day for me for pickup...

Enjoy your pickup looks like a great car.

Different from your V12. But have their qualities. One of the reasons for buying mine was to have a car that I could explore and get better with experience. The different driving modes really do offer different experiences. It will take time for anyone to really get to fully know the car. Oh, and it's blisteringly quick. Hang on to the steering wheel and laugh out loud quick. It goes round corners completely differently to the V12.

The V12 is a great car as well. You have two ends of the spectrum there. Lucky chap!

[simonr100]

I have just bought a McLaren thankyou all for your help! I can't stop smiling