Going Off Of Ferrari?
Discussion
It is just competition. Ferrari was way ahead of Lambo and Macca a few years ago. The Enzo and LF being notable highlights. But Lambo and Macca have now caught up and overtaken. Lambo is faster in the twisties and Macca is faster on the straights. Ferrari is looking more vulnerable than in a long time. McLaren, in particular, is clearly setting itself up as a bucket shop for supercars, launching a new model every few weeks, and looks a major threat to Ferrari at the moment. The next few years are going to be much tougher for Ferrari.
Lambos drive crap and look embrassing. In the case of the Huracan the equivalent Audi is a cheaper and much better car. When the Gallardo came out the 430 already slaughtered it as a driving experience and dated it from the moment it was launched and the Aventador is a joke compared to an F12. Ferrari couldn't give a rats about Lambo, their cars, the way they drive, the emotion and passion around the marque, not even in the same planet (unless you are some twentysomething youtuber where vanity is 99% of what its all about).
Mclaren are moving fast and create a very technical and rapid car but they are essentially the new TVR. Reliability is woeful and of course there's THAT engine. They are gathering their heritage slowly and their build quality will surely improve but still a long long way to go. As for the current F range, the 488 has the very best blown V8 ever created, the chassis trumps that of a 675LT and you have to realise it as half a generation out of step with a 720S. The 812, maybe not everyone's cup ot tea but personal persausions aside, not a lot wrong there IMO. As above, Ferrari couldn't give a rats about Mclaren.
675LT, sub 300k and you can't get rid of one
TDF, >1mil and you can't buy one
says it all really
Mclaren are moving fast and create a very technical and rapid car but they are essentially the new TVR. Reliability is woeful and of course there's THAT engine. They are gathering their heritage slowly and their build quality will surely improve but still a long long way to go. As for the current F range, the 488 has the very best blown V8 ever created, the chassis trumps that of a 675LT and you have to realise it as half a generation out of step with a 720S. The 812, maybe not everyone's cup ot tea but personal persausions aside, not a lot wrong there IMO. As above, Ferrari couldn't give a rats about Mclaren.
675LT, sub 300k and you can't get rid of one
TDF, >1mil and you can't buy one
says it all really
it's all personal opinion. don't like 'em?...don't buy 'em....simple as that really. i don't get a lot of the back and forth arguments on the boards over the last few months about this car is a micro second faster than that car ad nauseum. the ongoing arguments about carbon tubs are exhausting.
maccas leave me cold. i don't want one..... i don't feel the need to even talk about it, let alone get into a rambolambo-esque rant about it. i genuinely couldn't give a s
t about the perception of ferrari drivers posted on youtube videos. or drivers of any other marque for that matter....
it sounds like a fking nerd-off in a lot of these threads.
maccas leave me cold. i don't want one..... i don't feel the need to even talk about it, let alone get into a rambolambo-esque rant about it. i genuinely couldn't give a s
t about the perception of ferrari drivers posted on youtube videos. or drivers of any other marque for that matter....it sounds like a f
king nerd-off in a lot of these threads.Shazbat said:
Lambos drive crap and look embrassing. In the case of the Huracan the equivalent Audi is a cheaper and much better car. When the Gallardo came out the 430 already slaughtered it as a driving experience and dated it from the moment it was launched and the Aventador is a joke compared to an F12. Ferrari couldn't give a rats about Lambo, their cars, the way they drive, the emotion and passion around the marque, not even in the same planet (unless you are some twentysomething youtuber where vanity is 99% of what its all about).
Mclaren are moving fast and create a very technical and rapid car but they are essentially the new TVR. Reliability is woeful and of course there's THAT engine. They are gathering their heritage slowly and their build quality will surely improve but still a long long way to go. As for the current F range, the 488 has the very best blown V8 ever created, the chassis trumps that of a 675LT and you have to realise it as half a generation out of step with a 720S. The 812, maybe not everyone's cup ot tea but personal persausions aside, not a lot wrong there IMO. As above, Ferrari couldn't give a rats about Mclaren.
675LT, sub 300k and you can't get rid of one
TDF, >1mil and you can't buy one
says it all really
Manual Gallardos are now fetching roughly +50% higher prices than manual F430s. The market is reappraising the Gallardo in its favour.Mclaren are moving fast and create a very technical and rapid car but they are essentially the new TVR. Reliability is woeful and of course there's THAT engine. They are gathering their heritage slowly and their build quality will surely improve but still a long long way to go. As for the current F range, the 488 has the very best blown V8 ever created, the chassis trumps that of a 675LT and you have to realise it as half a generation out of step with a 720S. The 812, maybe not everyone's cup ot tea but personal persausions aside, not a lot wrong there IMO. As above, Ferrari couldn't give a rats about Mclaren.
675LT, sub 300k and you can't get rid of one
TDF, >1mil and you can't buy one
says it all really
The Huracan Performante is 20-30 seconds faster round the Nurb than the equivalent 458 / 488 lightweight models. Lambo today is in a whole different league when it comes to drivability.
The Aventador is almost 10 seconds faster round the Nurb than the F12. The F12 is a speck in the Aventador's mirror. The Aventador S takes it to another level. The Aventador S Performante later this year will be almost 1min faster round the Nurb than the F12. For speed and handling, Ferrari is now a long, long way behind.
Ferrari's global car sales grew just +5% in 2016. McLaren's global car sales grew a huge +100% in 2016. At current growth rates, McLaren will overtake and be bigger than Ferrari by 2020.
As above, the industry has changed. Ferrari is still great, but their golden era has now come to an end. Rivals have caught up and are leaping past faster than many realise.
Lambo's don't do it for me these days - they are generally not poster-on-the-wall pretty enough for me.
McLarens I do like, but I'm not convinced I trust them yet - for reliability, servicing costs (Indy's are barely starting to appear) and depreciation. It's noticeable that in the last few years Porsche and Ferrari prices have jumped up (and I assume Lambo, but don't follow them). McLaren haven't - and, somebody mentioned earlier that they are releasing new cars regularly - which is great, but when 12Cs are at the ~£110k mark for a coupe and ~£130k for a spider, a new McLaren at £130k plus options has to make a difference to those used prices (I accept that the 12C is a more powerful higher spec'd car, but even so....).
I wouldn't be surprised to find a McLaren in my garage at some point in the future - however, if I wanted to / could afford to spend £100k-£150k on a car now I suspect I'd end up with the 458. It's just "safer" and at least for me, that kind of money would need to be as safe as it can be with these kind of purchases.
McLarens I do like, but I'm not convinced I trust them yet - for reliability, servicing costs (Indy's are barely starting to appear) and depreciation. It's noticeable that in the last few years Porsche and Ferrari prices have jumped up (and I assume Lambo, but don't follow them). McLaren haven't - and, somebody mentioned earlier that they are releasing new cars regularly - which is great, but when 12Cs are at the ~£110k mark for a coupe and ~£130k for a spider, a new McLaren at £130k plus options has to make a difference to those used prices (I accept that the 12C is a more powerful higher spec'd car, but even so....).
I wouldn't be surprised to find a McLaren in my garage at some point in the future - however, if I wanted to / could afford to spend £100k-£150k on a car now I suspect I'd end up with the 458. It's just "safer" and at least for me, that kind of money would need to be as safe as it can be with these kind of purchases.
Yipper said:
Manual Gallardos are now fetching roughly +50% higher prices than manual F430s. The market is reappraising the Gallardo in its favour.
The Huracan Performante is 20-30 seconds faster round the Nurb than the equivalent 458 / 488 lightweight models. Lambo today is in a whole different league when it comes to drivability.
The Aventador is almost 10 seconds faster round the Nurb than the F12. The F12 is a speck in the Aventador's mirror. The Aventador S takes it to another level. The Aventador S Performante later this year will be almost 1min faster round the Nurb than the F12. For speed and handling, Ferrari is now a long, long way behind.
Ferrari's global car sales grew just +5% in 2016. McLaren's global car sales grew a huge
+100% in 2016. At current growth rates, McLaren will overtake and be bigger than Ferrari by 2020.
As above, the industry has changed. Ferrari is still great, but their golden era has now come to an end. Rivals have caught up and are leaping past faster than many realise.
...who cares??? If a Ferrari isn't fast enough for you then you shouldn't be on the roads.i can't even be arsed arguing the finer points of that rant you've just put up....but really??? Faster round the "nurb"..who cares!!..get a gripThe Huracan Performante is 20-30 seconds faster round the Nurb than the equivalent 458 / 488 lightweight models. Lambo today is in a whole different league when it comes to drivability.
The Aventador is almost 10 seconds faster round the Nurb than the F12. The F12 is a speck in the Aventador's mirror. The Aventador S takes it to another level. The Aventador S Performante later this year will be almost 1min faster round the Nurb than the F12. For speed and handling, Ferrari is now a long, long way behind.
Ferrari's global car sales grew just +5% in 2016. McLaren's global car sales grew a huge
+100% in 2016. At current growth rates, McLaren will overtake and be bigger than Ferrari by 2020.As above, the industry has changed. Ferrari is still great, but their golden era has now come to an end. Rivals have caught up and are leaping past faster than many realise.
Oh....and I've just had a look at manual gallardo prices......mate, you must be on mushrooms with that statement above
Facts are facts....it raised an eye brow when I read that as I don't often look at gallardo prices. Piqued my interest...looked at the classifieds....why tell out and out lies to try and back up your agenda?? Even if they WERE 50% more than manual 430s....SO WHAT....even though they aren't....you're a weird guy
Facts are facts....it raised an eye brow when I read that as I don't often look at gallardo prices. Piqued my interest...looked at the classifieds....why tell out and out lies to try and back up your agenda?? Even if they WERE 50% more than manual 430s....SO WHAT....even though they aren't....you're a weird guy
Edited by tuscaneer on Thursday 23 March 14:02
tuscaneer said:
Oh....and I've just had a look at manual gallardo prices......mate, you must be on mushrooms with that statement above
Facts are facts....it raised an eye brow when I read that as I don't often look at gallardo prices. Piqued my interest...looked at the classifieds....why tell out and out lies to try and back up your agenda?? Even if they WERE 50% more than manual 430s....SO WHAT....even though they aren't....you're a weird guy
In Yippers defenceFacts are facts....it raised an eye brow when I read that as I don't often look at gallardo prices. Piqued my interest...looked at the classifieds....why tell out and out lies to try and back up your agenda?? Even if they WERE 50% more than manual 430s....SO WHAT....even though they aren't....you're a weird guy
Edited by tuscaneer on Thursday 23 March 14:02
Ads found on this very site.
350K for a black Balboni (manual)
300K for a Black Singapore edition - unregistered. (Manual)
Most expensive 430 manual is 180K
Facts are facts.
Must be down to the weather or something. It's getting like a school play yard this section recently with all the bickering.
Edited by Never you mind on Thursday 23 March 14:37
Never you mind said:
In Yippers defence
Ads found on this very site.
350K for a black Balboni (manual)
300K for a Black Singapore edition - unregistered. (Manual)
Most expensive 430 manual is 180K
Facts are facts.
Must be down to the weather or something. It's getting like a school play yard this section recently with all the bickering.
Not comparing like for like there pal.Ads found on this very site.
350K for a black Balboni (manual)
300K for a Black Singapore edition - unregistered. (Manual)
Most expensive 430 manual is 180K
Facts are facts.
Must be down to the weather or something. It's getting like a school play yard this section recently with all the bickering.
Edited by Never you mind on Thursday 23 March 14:37
Having been luckly enough to be in a position to buy one of these, it's like buying a watch or a house or anything else - completely down to personal preference.
I ended up with a Ferrari - the tactile driving experience and the noise it makes won it *for me* over the other brands. It is no doubt completely different for everyone else.
I couldn't care less if Porsche made the cayanne to fund GT3's, or Ferrari make teddy bears and nasty aftershave to placate shareholders. I'm ambivalent to what Salamandrin thinks and that Ferrari aren't a brand which cars YouTube stars buy as the next 'it' car of the moment. I dont really care what people think of the cars or the brand. I'm pleased when people share my enthusiasm, but I equally understand those who see my choice as cliche'd, flashy and obnoxious.
I'm more likely *not* to buy a car because I dislike how it drives or how it sounds or how excited I feel when I sit down in one than what the brand 'stands for'. something at this level for me is an intensely personal thing which you don't have to measure or justify to anyone, yet that seems to be most of the conversation... Any car north of 400bhp is more than enough to get yourself into serious trouble on a public road, so which is fastest is mostly a matter of your attitude to risk rather than the capability of the car your driving. The most intense memories I have of the car tend to involve me alone on an empty alpine road - not 'beating' cars on trackdays, lapping the nurburgring, traffic light GPs or receiving admiring comments from the public.
Its all about how you feel when you open the garage door and your heart speeds up ever so slightly. When you park up somewhere and have to look back and gaze at it despite feeling a bit embarrassed... for me, some brands and cars just have it, others don't. It is undeniable that for many people Ferrari is one of those brands and I dont see that changing for the foreseeable future.
I ended up with a Ferrari - the tactile driving experience and the noise it makes won it *for me* over the other brands. It is no doubt completely different for everyone else.
I couldn't care less if Porsche made the cayanne to fund GT3's, or Ferrari make teddy bears and nasty aftershave to placate shareholders. I'm ambivalent to what Salamandrin thinks and that Ferrari aren't a brand which cars YouTube stars buy as the next 'it' car of the moment. I dont really care what people think of the cars or the brand. I'm pleased when people share my enthusiasm, but I equally understand those who see my choice as cliche'd, flashy and obnoxious.
I'm more likely *not* to buy a car because I dislike how it drives or how it sounds or how excited I feel when I sit down in one than what the brand 'stands for'. something at this level for me is an intensely personal thing which you don't have to measure or justify to anyone, yet that seems to be most of the conversation... Any car north of 400bhp is more than enough to get yourself into serious trouble on a public road, so which is fastest is mostly a matter of your attitude to risk rather than the capability of the car your driving. The most intense memories I have of the car tend to involve me alone on an empty alpine road - not 'beating' cars on trackdays, lapping the nurburgring, traffic light GPs or receiving admiring comments from the public.
Its all about how you feel when you open the garage door and your heart speeds up ever so slightly. When you park up somewhere and have to look back and gaze at it despite feeling a bit embarrassed... for me, some brands and cars just have it, others don't. It is undeniable that for many people Ferrari is one of those brands and I dont see that changing for the foreseeable future.
tuscaneer said:
Never you mind said:
In Yippers defence
Ads found on this very site.
350K for a black Balboni (manual)
300K for a Black Singapore edition - unregistered. (Manual)
Most expensive 430 manual is 180K
Facts are facts.
Must be down to the weather or something. It's getting like a school play yard this section recently with all the bickering.
Not comparing like for like there pal.Ads found on this very site.
350K for a black Balboni (manual)
300K for a Black Singapore edition - unregistered. (Manual)
Most expensive 430 manual is 180K
Facts are facts.
Must be down to the weather or something. It's getting like a school play yard this section recently with all the bickering.
Edited by Never you mind on Thursday 23 March 14:37
Yipper said:
He is comparing like for like. He is right.
Not he's not. A Balboni or Singapore edition are not standard models. a STANDARD f430 manual is hovering around 130-140k.....normal gallardo manuals are averaging a lot less. There's a blue manual STANDARD GALLARDO in the classifieds for 62 grand.find me a standard manual 430 anywhere near that.Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff