£100k budget trackday / weekend car
Discussion
_Leg_ said:
There are no electronic displays in an Exige S3. It has an analogue dash with the usual lights for lights, traction, drivetrain mode etc and a head unit but there are no electronic displays (unless it's been fitted with an AiM2 digital dash like mine - stock pic below).
there was one for fuel from what I recall. Dash was analogue, agreed. _Leg_ said:
Hearing what you say though you should buy a GT4. Even a standard Exige 350 Sport will leave it for dead on track and an Exige modified as I describe above is in a different class on track altogether. However, there's no denying that driving on the road, driving to and from track, the GT4 is a comfier, more cultured and nicer place to be.
Otherwise agreed. Thanks for the detailed replies. I guess I'm still deciding, is the current thinking. Holiday abroad has been cancelled so I have good 2 weeks at home to read up and think about it before I confirm with the Porsche dealer in January whether I want to stay on the list, or want the £5k deposit I had paid for Gt4 back. Edited by px1980 on Wednesday 23 December 10:57
OP. have you driven the 718 GT4?
I did a track limits day recently (September) in my 430CUP with a mate in his new 718 Spyder (same as a GT4 now). Out of the 20 or so cars on that day mine was the quickest even with a poor track driver like me at the wheel. The Spyder was slightly slower but more importantly he spun around a dozen times trying to beat my times on a constant curve at 80mph. We both had all TC turned off, we also tried with it on. My mate was getting increasingly frustrated and didn't really enjoy the car. I had a blast and the Exige was Epic. I also was comfortable and cool with the AC on. As has been said the AiM dash is now a factory option, personally I prefer analogue dials but each to their own. The AC in the Exige is super cold.
I really enjoyed my 981 Spyder but when my 675LT arrived in Jan something had to go and it wasn't going to be the Exige.
TBF the Exige and GT4 are both top of their game for track cars at this price and neither is a wrong choice. I get completely why someone would choose a GT4 over an Exige and thats fine. The biggest differences between the 2 are the Exige you have to drive and be 100% on it, you are rewarded and punished if you get it wrong. The GT4 is a leveler, a mediocre driver can get good results and its very consistent on track. I drove one at the Silverstone experience centre and it was a case of improving via memory, brake a little later, turn in a bit later etc, tease the limits.
The other cars mentioned are too heavy for track. An R8 V10 will cost you a fortune in tyres, brakes & consumables. The beauty of a Lotus is you can do a track day and use hardly any tyres or brakes and parts are cheap if you have an off. That's not the case with an R8 or 570s. BTW the 570S is epic in track too but you need deep pockets for brakes and tyres and your pre / post track checks. I will have a go with my 675LT on track once and that will do me I won't do a second track day not when the Exige is perfectly good.
I did a track limits day recently (September) in my 430CUP with a mate in his new 718 Spyder (same as a GT4 now). Out of the 20 or so cars on that day mine was the quickest even with a poor track driver like me at the wheel. The Spyder was slightly slower but more importantly he spun around a dozen times trying to beat my times on a constant curve at 80mph. We both had all TC turned off, we also tried with it on. My mate was getting increasingly frustrated and didn't really enjoy the car. I had a blast and the Exige was Epic. I also was comfortable and cool with the AC on. As has been said the AiM dash is now a factory option, personally I prefer analogue dials but each to their own. The AC in the Exige is super cold.
I really enjoyed my 981 Spyder but when my 675LT arrived in Jan something had to go and it wasn't going to be the Exige.
TBF the Exige and GT4 are both top of their game for track cars at this price and neither is a wrong choice. I get completely why someone would choose a GT4 over an Exige and thats fine. The biggest differences between the 2 are the Exige you have to drive and be 100% on it, you are rewarded and punished if you get it wrong. The GT4 is a leveler, a mediocre driver can get good results and its very consistent on track. I drove one at the Silverstone experience centre and it was a case of improving via memory, brake a little later, turn in a bit later etc, tease the limits.
The other cars mentioned are too heavy for track. An R8 V10 will cost you a fortune in tyres, brakes & consumables. The beauty of a Lotus is you can do a track day and use hardly any tyres or brakes and parts are cheap if you have an off. That's not the case with an R8 or 570s. BTW the 570S is epic in track too but you need deep pockets for brakes and tyres and your pre / post track checks. I will have a go with my 675LT on track once and that will do me I won't do a second track day not when the Exige is perfectly good.
Having driven my old Caterham on track many times I then had a day out at Donington in a friends GT4 (previous model) which felt like a heavy old lump by comparison (obviously!).
The lightweight 7 was so much more fun against bigger, heavier, more expensive cars, also much cheaper on consumables, I'd put my weight behind the lighter track car depending on how seriously you take your track days. I've driven an Exige S, and Evora come to that, both huge fun on road (and track I'm sure) and certainly comfy enough for the weekend road duties, although compared to the 7 I appreciate that probably isn't saying much...
For the record I've ended up in a V12 Vantage which I would never track due to the cost of new brakes, am very tempted to get another 7!
The lightweight 7 was so much more fun against bigger, heavier, more expensive cars, also much cheaper on consumables, I'd put my weight behind the lighter track car depending on how seriously you take your track days. I've driven an Exige S, and Evora come to that, both huge fun on road (and track I'm sure) and certainly comfy enough for the weekend road duties, although compared to the 7 I appreciate that probably isn't saying much...
For the record I've ended up in a V12 Vantage which I would never track due to the cost of new brakes, am very tempted to get another 7!
bennno said:
Be mad to buy an exige.
Id suggest you drive a GTS, R8 V10 and a 911T
These aren’t really going to work well as track cars.Id suggest you drive a GTS, R8 V10 and a 911T
I had an R8 Plus which I did enjoy on track, but even that was a bit heavy for a long session. The base model R8 is going to struggle quite quickly if pushed on track.
Bispal said:
OP. have you driven the 718 GT4?
No, I haven't. Not really sure how I could have? Porsche centers don't offer test drives as far as I know, it's not really something I could rent, and I don't have mates who own one, either. I'm taking the reviews at face value, 2019 Evo car of the year etc, and not a single review that I could find that would be less than 4.5 stars out of 5.Bispal said:
The other cars mentioned are too heavy for track.
agreed. I have seen people in 911s & AMG GTs on track, hence me including these cars on the list, but at the moment the choices are 3: (1) 718 GT4 (2) 718 GTS 4.0 (3) Exige (? maaaybe). As for the suggestions to buy 2 cars, or keep renting trackday cars. This will be my first sports car so it feels a bit silly to go straight into the option of buying 2, 1 for road and 1 for track; or to buy 1 for road, but then keep spending £ on trackday rentals. I'd rather have 1 car that I can explore extensively, develop as a driver and then sell on after 2 years or so - at which stage, I could think of upgrading to the 2-car supercar + trackday car combo. Also the daily is already a car that my gf doesn't quite approve of as I chose it on the basis of what I like, rather than what'd work for both of us;) (it's a Macan Turbo with Perf Pack, which she finds too wide / too fast / too everything, really. Her choice would have been a small Volvo or similar...). So not really an option for me to end up with 3 cars, none of which she likes!
Reliability is a big factor for me, too. To be able to afford a car like this I'm normally very busy with work. So I just want minimum hassle. Buy a car, track it once a fortnight, have someone fix things for me once a year or so. I'm not the kind of person who'd enjoy spending hours on weekends in the garage tinkering with stuff in the car - I neither enjoy it nor have the time for it. Not sure if this is relevant but I assumed GT4 or GTS would be relatively hassle-free, as I would be buying a brand new car.
Leaving aside the Exige vs 718 debate, the question I'd like to explore further is GT4 vs GTS 4.0, of which I've seen no direct comparisons so far on this forum - but I guess I'd have to post in Porsche forum now, not Supercars. GT4 is said to be a better trackday car, but then lots of reviews mention that GTS is indistinguishable from GT4 to an average driver (such as myself...I'm no ace TBH), so I'd like to understand that.
That said, Exige continues to be the car of all that I've driven in 20+ years that I remember best, so there you have it...;)
Edited by px1980 on Wednesday 23 December 12:32
px1980 said:
Bispal said:
OP. have you driven the 718 GT4?
No, I haven't. Not really sure how I could have? Porsche centers don't offer test drives as far as I know, it's not really something I could rent, and I don't have mates who own one, either. I'm taking the reviews at face value, 2019 Evo car of the year etc, and not a single review that I could find that would be less than 4.5 stars out of 5.Bispal said:
The other cars mentioned are too heavy for track.
agreed. I have seen people in 911s & AMG GTs on track, hence me including these cars on the list, but at the moment the choices are 3: (1) 718 GT4 (2) 718 GTS 4.0 (3) Exige (? maaaybe). As for the suggestions to buy 2 cars, or keep renting trackday cars. This will be my first sports car so it feels a bit silly to go straight into the option of buying 2, 1 for road and 1 for track; or to buy 1 for road, but then keep spending £ on trackday rentals. I'd rather have 1 car that I can explore extensively, develop as a driver and then sell on after 2 years or so - at which stage, I could think of upgrading to the 2-car supercar + trackday car combo. Also the daily is already a car that my gf doesn't quite approve of as I chose it on the basis of what I like, rather than what'd work for both of us;) (it's a Macan Turbo with Perf Pack, which she finds too wide / too fast / too everything, really. Her choice would have been a small Volvo or similar...). So not really an option for me to end up with 3 cars, none of which she likes!
Reliability is a big factor for me, too. To be able to afford a car like this I'm normally very busy with work. So I just want minimum hassle. Buy a car, track it once a fortnight, have someone fix things for me once a year or so. I'm not the kind of person who'd enjoy spending hours on weekends in the garage tinkering with stuff in the car - I neither enjoy it nor have the time for it. Not sure if this is relevant but I assumed GT4 or GTS would be relatively hassle-free, as I would be buying a brand new car.
Leaving aside the Exige vs 718 debate, the question I'd like to explore further is GT4 vs GTS 4.0, of which I've seen no direct comparisons so far on this forum - but I guess I'd have to post in Porsche forum now, not Supercars. GT4 is said to be a better trackday car, but then lots of reviews mention that GTS is indistinguishable from GT4 to an average driver (such as myself...I'm no ace TBH), so I'd like to understand that.
That said, Exige continues to be the car of all that I've driven in 20+ years that I remember best, so there you have it...;)
Edited by px1980 on Wednesday 23 December 12:32
Bispal said:
If I were you I would spend around £40k on a used Exige as you know you like it, and see how you get on, upgrading the suspension to Nitrons, which are better on road too. They keep their prices very well after a year you will only loose a few thousand pounds if you change your mind. I lost £12k in 18 months on my spyder. I lost £1k in 12 months on a 350 Exige! The 718 is not a car I would track as it would need to go to the main dealer whereas with Lotus there are lots of good specialists. I haven't driven a GTS but I would rather use something less precious and more focused on track. You may not even like track days or have the time. I end up cancelling 75% of the ones I sign up for due to work commitments!
Damn. I came in here decided on the shortlist in my original post, dead-set that I’m not getting an Exige. Now you people have planted the seed of doubt! I could, like you say, spend half the money I was planning to and have more fun on track. Or I could even buy an R8 V10 togo with the Exige for the savings!
Out of curiosity, how did you sell the Lotus for only a £1k loss - that couldn’t have been through a dealer, I assume, as their haircut is always like 5-10% (i.e. if I were to buy a car and then sell it back to them next day,
the loss would be 5-10%)?
I had an Elise 111R and I have to say it was amazing. It appreciated under my ownership as well, while running costs were low. I think light weight makes a massive difference to handling, and I understand reduces consumables substantially on track. I would fully recommend Lotus over anything else, with a Caterham coming in second.
I'd keep the Porsches and R8s for the road....
I'd keep the Porsches and R8s for the road....
px1980 said:
Bispal said:
If I were you I would spend around £40k on a used Exige as you know you like it, and see how you get on, upgrading the suspension to Nitrons, which are better on road too. They keep their prices very well after a year you will only loose a few thousand pounds if you change your mind. I lost £12k in 18 months on my spyder. I lost £1k in 12 months on a 350 Exige! The 718 is not a car I would track as it would need to go to the main dealer whereas with Lotus there are lots of good specialists. I haven't driven a GTS but I would rather use something less precious and more focused on track. You may not even like track days or have the time. I end up cancelling 75% of the ones I sign up for due to work commitments!
Damn. I came in here decided on the shortlist in my original post, dead-set that I’m not getting an Exige. Now you people have planted the seed of doubt! I could, like you say, spend half the money I was planning to and have more fun on track. Or I could even buy an R8 V10 togo with the Exige for the savings!
Out of curiosity, how did you sell the Lotus for only a £1k loss - that couldn’t have been through a dealer, I assume, as their haircut is always like 5-10% (i.e. if I were to buy a car and then sell it back to them next day,
the loss would be 5-10%)?
Edited by Bispal on Wednesday 23 December 13:25
OP- it depends which trackdays you do etc but you won't get away with doing trackdays once a fortnight plus daily driving and only one or two visits a year to the garage. Unless it's a lightweight car or you are very spanner handy you'll be doing loads of brakes and oil changes if you want to retain any value or longevity in the car.
If you are doing regular trackdays and enjoy it the only way to do it comfortably as you'll find is by having a track day car, be it trailered or hired, and maintained after every couple of days. Even getting tyres swapped after a few good trackdays will need organising/ spare rims etc.
Have a look on the lotus forums as those guys have it nailed with the elises and exiges as mentioned already, a good compromise car if you must do both in one vehicle.
If you are doing regular trackdays and enjoy it the only way to do it comfortably as you'll find is by having a track day car, be it trailered or hired, and maintained after every couple of days. Even getting tyres swapped after a few good trackdays will need organising/ spare rims etc.
Have a look on the lotus forums as those guys have it nailed with the elises and exiges as mentioned already, a good compromise car if you must do both in one vehicle.
By the way, it’s worth noting that the Elise and Exige based on the current architecture are ceasing production soon. Lotus are moving to new platforms moving forward with a more mainstream approach and appeal.
Residuals are already strong and can surely only get stronger on the current crop. Not only because of the end of production but the growing popularity of track days means they’ll be in demand.
Residuals are already strong and can surely only get stronger on the current crop. Not only because of the end of production but the growing popularity of track days means they’ll be in demand.
200Plus Club said:
OP- it depends which trackdays you do etc but you won't get away with doing trackdays once a fortnight plus daily driving and only one or two visits a year to the garage.
and let me guess, brake changes on a 718 need to be done by an approved Porsche dealer in order to keep the warranty?;) Good point you're raising 200Plus Club said:
If you are doing regular trackdays
well I found I do quite enjoy those, so realistically we're talking once a month. 200Plus Club said:
Have a look on the lotus forums as those guys have it nailed with the elises and exiges as mentioned already, a good compromise car if you must do both in one vehicle.
will do. I did see tons of Exige's at trackdays I've been to, so that obviously speaks to the car's suitability for this sort of thingOne other thing to factor into the decision.
Running an R8 or similar on the track regularly is likely to become very costly in terms of regular wear items like tyres, brake pads, discs etc. One of the reasons I didn’t run my Ultima on the track (other than the worry of idiots damaging it) was the £1,000 to replace the tyres. Plus when you come to sell the car the inevitable gravel rash and other signs will devalue the car relatively to cosseted garage queens making selling a difficult prospect.
Something like the Caterham on the other hand is much cheaper on the consumables and track use is almost expected come sale time.
When the lockdown permits I recommend a trip out to try one on a track, yes, they aren’t something that most would relish driving down to the south coast of France, but for taking out on a sunny day and just driving for pleasure (not that it’s easy on our roads) very little beats it.
Running an R8 or similar on the track regularly is likely to become very costly in terms of regular wear items like tyres, brake pads, discs etc. One of the reasons I didn’t run my Ultima on the track (other than the worry of idiots damaging it) was the £1,000 to replace the tyres. Plus when you come to sell the car the inevitable gravel rash and other signs will devalue the car relatively to cosseted garage queens making selling a difficult prospect.
Something like the Caterham on the other hand is much cheaper on the consumables and track use is almost expected come sale time.
When the lockdown permits I recommend a trip out to try one on a track, yes, they aren’t something that most would relish driving down to the south coast of France, but for taking out on a sunny day and just driving for pleasure (not that it’s easy on our roads) very little beats it.
So is regularly tracking your car classed as once or twice a month? I do typically 2 days at the ring and 2 in the UK every yr if I can...I've tracked a V10 plus R8, V12VS and my current 570s. I haven't found it prohibitively expensive on consumables thus far for any of them although the pads on the Vantage needed replacing last yr pre ring trip. The 570S had a pre ring inspection this yr for £250 but that was more for my peace of mind rather than anything else...the extended warranty does not require pre or post track inspections which is not the case with the original 3 yr manufacturers warranty...also you don't have to volunteer that you've been on track! The 570S is a blast on track but I really enjoyed the others too. I actually really like the idea of an Exige at some point but the interior would certainly be a bit spartan in comparison to what I've had. 300 mile run to the Ring might not be ideal in one either? I probably don't do enough trackdays to warrant such a hard edged car but there's alot I like about them.
RSbandit said:
So is regularly tracking your car classed as once or twice a month? I do typically 2 days at the ring and 2 in the UK every yr if I can...I've tracked a V10 plus R8, V12VS and my current 570s. I haven't found it prohibitively expensive on consumables thus far for any of them although the pads on the Vantage needed replacing last yr pre ring trip. The 570S had a pre ring inspection this yr for £250 but that was more for my peace of mind rather than anything else...the extended warranty does not require pre or post track inspections which is not the case with the original 3 yr manufacturers warranty...also you don't have to volunteer that you've been on track! The 570S is a blast on track but I really enjoyed the others too. I actually really like the idea of an Exige at some point but the interior would certainly be a bit spartan in comparison to what I've had. 300 mile run to the Ring might not be ideal in one either? I probably don't do enough trackdays to warrant such a hard edged car but there's alot I like about them.
Please can I ask again re your post. A extended 570s warranty does not require a pre / pro check if car going to be used on track ? Thanks
That's correct I renewed the warranty in Feb of this yr ( mine is a 2016 car) and the service manager explicitly checked this for me as I mentioned to him that I had some trackdays planned. On newer McLarens that are still under the initial 3 yr warranty it's different the pre and post inspection is required however that would depend on you volunteering that you'd suffered the issue on a trackday. I believe the underwriters of the original and extended warranties are different hence the distinction.
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