Supermarket Fuel In Supercars?
Discussion
Mattymouse33 said:
Im with you here. I never use to care about fuel and to some extent I still dont. In that i mean that i will not start searching for an alternative station to see if it is cheaper. I own a Diablo and my last tank got me 130 miles for £75. Do i care? Yes because i resent having to pay stupid amounts that seem to vary far too often. Does it stop me driving? No not at all, I drive the car all the time.
When you get 130 miles to a tank, you are allowed a little moan at petrol. I usually average about 140 by the way. Have got 250 on a long distance journey so my goal is to beat that.
I use super always, wouldnt think i would really notice a big difference between fuels and I dont really kick my car about to notice, just the odd the little blast on the M'way.
I've done 310 miles on long journeys, usually fill up 60-65L then... Even though the tank's supposed to be 100L When you get 130 miles to a tank, you are allowed a little moan at petrol. I usually average about 140 by the way. Have got 250 on a long distance journey so my goal is to beat that.
I use super always, wouldnt think i would really notice a big difference between fuels and I dont really kick my car about to notice, just the odd the little blast on the M'way.
Edited by Mattymouse33 on Sunday 8th November 20:36
AFAIK, there are only a handful of refineries, so the petrol as such is pretty decent quality everywhere.
SimonSays said:
AFAIK, there are only a handful of refineries, so the petrol as such is pretty decent quality everywhere.
As has been said, the additives are added per tanker-load allocated for the different fuel companies, so it doesn't matter what the raw product is - if you want the good stuff, then you have to select the right brand.ALERT ALERT
this is the low down on shell V power... how do i know? my lecturer invented it.
It has extra chemicals + substances invented to make the ride better and the feel of the car better, it will sound louder and more sporty, and give better vibrations through the body and wheel to you.
is it better for your car? no, but it makes you think it is.
If anyone is interested his name is Marco Ajovalasit and he is a clever chappy.
this is the low down on shell V power... how do i know? my lecturer invented it.
It has extra chemicals + substances invented to make the ride better and the feel of the car better, it will sound louder and more sporty, and give better vibrations through the body and wheel to you.
is it better for your car? no, but it makes you think it is.
If anyone is interested his name is Marco Ajovalasit and he is a clever chappy.
koolchris99 said:
ALERT ALERT
this is the low down on shell V power... how do i know? my lecturer invented it.
It has extra chemicals + substances invented to make the ride better and the feel of the car better, it will sound louder and more sporty, and give better vibrations through the body and wheel to you.
is it better for your car? no, but it makes you think it is.
If anyone is interested his name is Marco Ajovalasit and he is a clever chappy.
I'd suggest he didn't: http://www.brunel.ac.uk/about/acad/sed/sedstaff/de...this is the low down on shell V power... how do i know? my lecturer invented it.
It has extra chemicals + substances invented to make the ride better and the feel of the car better, it will sound louder and more sporty, and give better vibrations through the body and wheel to you.
is it better for your car? no, but it makes you think it is.
If anyone is interested his name is Marco Ajovalasit and he is a clever chappy.
No mention of anything relating to fuel design work. Ergonomics and vibration, yes.
koolchris99 said:
EPSRC Research Grant 00314243 (£36,300 2000-2003) on “Effect of Fuel Content on Human Perception of Engine Idle Irregularity” (Researcher). Industrial collaborator and sponsor: Shell Global Solutions, UK.
look at the sponsor...
shell v power is an cleverly branded ergonomic product.. through the use of its high price point giving perceived quality, its clever naming giving perceived power, and its additions giving that sensory input to make you believe your car is performing better. look at the sponsor...
Right, so SGS give a grant to someone to prove that their new fuel just makes the car sound and feel better? Just started studying this year, have you? 
You said he invented V-power! I contest that Shell's research labs spent a f
king sight more money and time on a team of fuel development engineers with the goal of real gains, rather than a mech engineer who specialise in ergonomics... 
Especially in light of the earlier problems with Formula Shell which was fking up shyte Vauxhall engines....
You said he invented V-power! I contest that Shell's research labs spent a f
king sight more money and time on a team of fuel development engineers with the goal of real gains, rather than a mech engineer who specialise in ergonomics... Especially in light of the earlier problems with Formula Shell which was f
king up shyte Vauxhall engines....I think its pretty safe to say unless you tinker with the engine there is only so much performance gain you can get from fuel additives, which im pretty sure they have got to a certain level with cost being prehibitive from them reaching furthur.
hence they then turn to human factors experts to get perceived gain through feedback, why spend millions on fuel engineers when you can make your customer think they have better fuel using less research costs?
makes sense to me.
and no, its not my first year, ive done 4 years and 14 months designing private jets.
hence they then turn to human factors experts to get perceived gain through feedback, why spend millions on fuel engineers when you can make your customer think they have better fuel using less research costs?
makes sense to me.
and no, its not my first year, ive done 4 years and 14 months designing private jets.
koolchris99 said:
If anyone is interested his name is Marco Ajovalasit and he is a clever chappy.
Sorry to disappoint you Chris, whilst your lecturer may have been involved somewhere along the line with its development, according to one of the senior Chemists at Shell Stanlow, it was more of a large team effort with millions being spent on development than a eureka moment for a single chemist.Whilst the exact wording may have slipped from my mind in a drunken haze (said Shell chemist is a former Round Table member and one of the people who has been rotated through the Ferrari fuel team) the basic jist was that Vpower had a specific and distinct base (like some other "premium" petrol) as well as the additive package.
The nozzles that the tankers use to fill up at Stanlow are (from the distance I was sitting away from them this morning) different for Unleaded, Diesel and super / Vpower, which would indicate that that the different grades of fuel come from different tanks as well as having different additive packages.
Interestingly whilst looking at the giant filling station, there were tankers from 4 separate companies being filled up (Sainsbury, Shell, Tesco and an independent)
Edited by AndrewW-G on Monday 9th November 15:29
jdwcd said:
Mattymouse33 said:
Im with you here. I never use to care about fuel and to some extent I still dont. In that i mean that i will not start searching for an alternative station to see if it is cheaper. I own a Diablo and my last tank got me 130 miles for £75. Do i care? Yes because i resent having to pay stupid amounts that seem to vary far too often. Does it stop me driving? No not at all, I drive the car all the time.
When you get 130 miles to a tank, you are allowed a little moan at petrol. I usually average about 140 by the way. Have got 250 on a long distance journey so my goal is to beat that.
I use super always, wouldnt think i would really notice a big difference between fuels and I dont really kick my car about to notice, just the odd the little blast on the M'way.
140 miles to a tank. Stop driving down the high street in first gear. (It does sound good though.)
When you get 130 miles to a tank, you are allowed a little moan at petrol. I usually average about 140 by the way. Have got 250 on a long distance journey so my goal is to beat that.
I use super always, wouldnt think i would really notice a big difference between fuels and I dont really kick my car about to notice, just the odd the little blast on the M'way.
140 miles to a tank. Stop driving down the high street in first gear. (It does sound good though.)
Edited by Mattymouse33 on Sunday 8th November 20:36
koolchris99 said:
i know it wasnt just him.. there was obviously a massive team, im not stupid.
Its a great product but i dont see the point unless your engine is tuned specifically to run on that specific v power fuel.
What aero company do you work for, and remind me never to board one of your products.Its a great product but i dont see the point unless your engine is tuned specifically to run on that specific v power fuel.
Modern engines automatically 'adapt' to the RON base of petrol, so they get the most from any different fuel. Look it up.
I'm outa here.
Hi All,
I done a fuel study with my work (engine design) earlier this year, and I'm afraid the answer is NOT clear cut!!
If you buy a branded high octane fuel i.e Shell, BP and so on…. What you buy is what you get!!
However, if you buy fuel from Tesco's, Sainsbury's or where ever…. It may arrive on the forecourt in a branded tanker, but it may NOT be the same fuel!!
Yes RON is RON! But it's not that what you should all worry about. Diesel (fuel of the devil!!) can be most effected, you can sometimes find a huge difference in colour
Between banded and supermarket, again this is due to additives… or rather the lack of!
Some of the supermarket fuel samples which I took, were worryingly contaminated!! The main concern was something which looked like small droplets of "lard" in the fuel.
And other samples we took, were exactly the same! So it really does vary from day to day and super market to super market!! There is no way of knowing!
Prior to me doing this work I used to put supermarket fuel in my Sunday drive….. After the study.. Errrmmmm NO!!!
I can't post pics as I don't photobucket - but if you'd like to see a pic of some fuel contamination which came straight from the pump - email me and I'll send it across!
You'll be surprisingly more choosey where you buy fuel from!!
Hope this helps!
I done a fuel study with my work (engine design) earlier this year, and I'm afraid the answer is NOT clear cut!!
If you buy a branded high octane fuel i.e Shell, BP and so on…. What you buy is what you get!!
However, if you buy fuel from Tesco's, Sainsbury's or where ever…. It may arrive on the forecourt in a branded tanker, but it may NOT be the same fuel!!
Yes RON is RON! But it's not that what you should all worry about. Diesel (fuel of the devil!!) can be most effected, you can sometimes find a huge difference in colour
Between banded and supermarket, again this is due to additives… or rather the lack of!
Some of the supermarket fuel samples which I took, were worryingly contaminated!! The main concern was something which looked like small droplets of "lard" in the fuel.
And other samples we took, were exactly the same! So it really does vary from day to day and super market to super market!! There is no way of knowing!
Prior to me doing this work I used to put supermarket fuel in my Sunday drive….. After the study.. Errrmmmm NO!!!
I can't post pics as I don't photobucket - but if you'd like to see a pic of some fuel contamination which came straight from the pump - email me and I'll send it across!
You'll be surprisingly more choosey where you buy fuel from!!
Hope this helps!
jshell said:
Silly, silly ianqv! That lard makes the car 'feel' better, you know, noise and lumpiness....im not saying there are not other chemicals in it to try and give better performance etc, but i am saying i know there are chemicals in there for feel and driver experience.
whats your background may i ask? do you know anything about branding, user experiences, ergonomics??
Jshell - Mmmm perhaps the Lard is really essence of Kebab!!! To appeal to us guys!! (that reminds me, I haven't spoken to Pete for a while!!
).Koolchris - A little, as I had to take all of that in to consideration for my recommendations.
Using expensive fuel in an every day car in a hope to increase performance is probably not worth it.
Many non performance cars won't have the ECU capability to really make the most out of the better quality fuel. However the additives will
hopefully keep the engine running cleaner.
On high performance cars, with modern F.I the ECU's can see via the knocks sensors that they can bring the timing forward and increase the fuel a little.
This is what some drivers say they can feel.
Also, on the rare stinking hot day that we get, and for track use - this will also help (a little) against detonation as well.;)
TaylotS2K said:
There was on episode of Fifth Gear which dealt with this issue.
V-Power was by far the best in terms of extra power and better comsumption. The results were a lot better than BP Ultimate.
Think I saw the same episode - rolling road showed power gains but only in more performance cars that could adjust to the better fuel. Can't remember if it was just RON or whether the additives made any difference to power/running?V-Power was by far the best in terms of extra power and better comsumption. The results were a lot better than BP Ultimate.
koolchris99 said:
jshell said:
Silly, silly ianqv! That lard makes the car 'feel' better, you know, noise and lumpiness....im not saying there are not other chemicals in it to try and give better performance etc, but i am saying i know there are chemicals in there for feel and driver experience.
whats your background may i ask? do you know anything about branding, user experiences, ergonomics??
There may be additives to add to the experience Chris, but the major factor is covered in ianqv's post above. High RON fuels do improve performance in modern cars, additives do help and protect engines. And I did take a little exception to your first post that your lecturer 'invented' V-power.
Anyway, moving on, eh?
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