Some advice please - joint Ferrari 360 ownership
Discussion
Hi all,
I am seeking some advice on buying a Ferrari 360. Instead of buying outright myself, I am going to be doing a joint purchase along with two friends to offset maintenance costs as I can not justify spending that amount on a car that I will not drive very often in addition to my daily drive (996 Turbo). It will also mean that the car is used regularly rather than sitting in a locked garage for weeks at a time.
Has anyone done this before? If so, it would be great if you could provide some advice from your experience. How did you arrange insurance, registration and finance of the car?
Cheers,
Doug
I am seeking some advice on buying a Ferrari 360. Instead of buying outright myself, I am going to be doing a joint purchase along with two friends to offset maintenance costs as I can not justify spending that amount on a car that I will not drive very often in addition to my daily drive (996 Turbo). It will also mean that the car is used regularly rather than sitting in a locked garage for weeks at a time.
Has anyone done this before? If so, it would be great if you could provide some advice from your experience. How did you arrange insurance, registration and finance of the car?
Cheers,
Doug
I've done it with one of my best mates, it wasn't a problem at all and we have dont it again since.
The only thing you want to agree beforehand (that I can think of) is what to do in the event that one party wants out of the car or there is a crash and you decided to sell/it's a write off. Obviously there will be value implications here, all realtively simple stuff to sort out if you think about it carefully. no different from a joint mortgage. You need to allow for these scenarios now, its all too exciting at this stage to worry about this stuff but it can crop up months or years down the line and then everyone generally tends to be a bit more serious again.
My mate did the finance and I did a direct debit into his account every month. I was a named driver on the insurance and we split this 50/50 despite age or license disparities. We split everything right down the middle and took the view that if the car got damaged then whoever damaged it paid for it. Just have to be considerate re fuel etc, I would never leave it empty or with less than it had in it when I last used it/picked it up.
The other main point was usage, difficult one. I would look at it along the lines of one week each on a rota system unless you can all adopt a common sense approach.
All in all its a great idea but remember that everything seems like a great idea when you enter into something that you will benefit from and something that you want. Think of property deals etc with mates! However, things can go pear shaped and just allow for that now. My mate and I did have a difference of opinion re selling the car, we didn't have a formal agreement re this but we just took a grown up approach. I think we lost 10k on the car and i shouldered that as we could have kept it and not lost money! In fact the car has gone up in value ever since. Doh!
We didn't have an arrangement re useage, again we just tried to be sensible. I couldn't see us ever arguing over that anwyay. Just make sure you know the guys you're doing this with. There are friends of mine I definitely would not do this with. Ever had a mate as a flatmate who you irritates the crap ot of you after a few months? Same thing!
The only thing you want to agree beforehand (that I can think of) is what to do in the event that one party wants out of the car or there is a crash and you decided to sell/it's a write off. Obviously there will be value implications here, all realtively simple stuff to sort out if you think about it carefully. no different from a joint mortgage. You need to allow for these scenarios now, its all too exciting at this stage to worry about this stuff but it can crop up months or years down the line and then everyone generally tends to be a bit more serious again.
My mate did the finance and I did a direct debit into his account every month. I was a named driver on the insurance and we split this 50/50 despite age or license disparities. We split everything right down the middle and took the view that if the car got damaged then whoever damaged it paid for it. Just have to be considerate re fuel etc, I would never leave it empty or with less than it had in it when I last used it/picked it up.
The other main point was usage, difficult one. I would look at it along the lines of one week each on a rota system unless you can all adopt a common sense approach.
All in all its a great idea but remember that everything seems like a great idea when you enter into something that you will benefit from and something that you want. Think of property deals etc with mates! However, things can go pear shaped and just allow for that now. My mate and I did have a difference of opinion re selling the car, we didn't have a formal agreement re this but we just took a grown up approach. I think we lost 10k on the car and i shouldered that as we could have kept it and not lost money! In fact the car has gone up in value ever since. Doh!
We didn't have an arrangement re useage, again we just tried to be sensible. I couldn't see us ever arguing over that anwyay. Just make sure you know the guys you're doing this with. There are friends of mine I definitely would not do this with. Ever had a mate as a flatmate who you irritates the crap ot of you after a few months? Same thing!
thanks pistolp, sounds like you've had a good experience car sharing. it's a good point about things such as who pays for the damage if any should occur. we have not discussed that yet, but in terms of sharing costs, we're looking at splitting everything 3 ways for servicing/maintenance. obviously, these costs come round quicker if you drive it more, so we are going to be looking at limiting mileage to 2000 miles a year per person, and if someone goes over that then there will be some kind of charge per additional mile.
we thought of splitting servicing costs as a percentage of how much each person has used it, but it looked complicated as someone may not have used it all year, then taken it on holiday at the end of the year and put 2000 miles on it, in the mean time we've paid for a service, new tyres etc.
so i gather that your mate was the registered owner on the V5 and also was the main policy holder. we were wondering what would happen if one of the named drivers had an accident and had to make a claim. that would then obviously affect the main policy holder getting insured in the future as he would then have to declare he has made a claim?
ThatPhilBrettGuy - you have a point. if that happens, costs would be split 3 ways i guess. everyone is liable and will loose out. i don't think it is in the interests of anyone to abuse it, we're all pretty mature, and don't want to incur costs due to mis-use.
we thought of splitting servicing costs as a percentage of how much each person has used it, but it looked complicated as someone may not have used it all year, then taken it on holiday at the end of the year and put 2000 miles on it, in the mean time we've paid for a service, new tyres etc.
so i gather that your mate was the registered owner on the V5 and also was the main policy holder. we were wondering what would happen if one of the named drivers had an accident and had to make a claim. that would then obviously affect the main policy holder getting insured in the future as he would then have to declare he has made a claim?
ThatPhilBrettGuy - you have a point. if that happens, costs would be split 3 ways i guess. everyone is liable and will loose out. i don't think it is in the interests of anyone to abuse it, we're all pretty mature, and don't want to incur costs due to mis-use.
BluePurpleRed said:
Surely if its split 3 ways you should look at a decent warranty? I mean that would cushion any major problem, and not too pricey as I think a lot of people do it here , but just with them as a sole person paying the bill?
not thought about warranty. thanks BluePurpleRed, I'll certainly look into that. might be a good piece of mind for all 3 of us.Yes I guess that would be an issue - one of you guys will have to jsut take that on the chin. The important thing to remember here is that you are buying a car under quite a serious compromise, in that you don't actually own it. I would look at it like that, it's just there for you to use and enjoy. I wouldn't get precious about it and make sure your mates look at it in the same way.
Check with an insurance company re that point and see what they can offer you re joint ownership. It's quite common these days so I would imagine they would have some sort of policy that would cater for a scenario where a name driver crashes and the policy holder doesn't suffer going forward. If not its just another one of those 'not ideal but I've got a 360 to use so who cares'
As for one of you ragging and it going bang, unlikely anyway and make sure as you say you all have the same approach to cars. Mechanical sympathy etc and letting it warm up. you know what your mates are like with their cars as you've been in their cars with them right? If it does go pop, who is to say it wans't the last guy driving it that caused the damage? It isn't necessarily the driver at the time that is the culprit! Hence, split it three ways and hope it doesn't happen.
Good luck, it'll be fun. My mate and I went away on a few road trips as well, it definitely made it even more fun knowing the car was joint owned.
Check with an insurance company re that point and see what they can offer you re joint ownership. It's quite common these days so I would imagine they would have some sort of policy that would cater for a scenario where a name driver crashes and the policy holder doesn't suffer going forward. If not its just another one of those 'not ideal but I've got a 360 to use so who cares'
As for one of you ragging and it going bang, unlikely anyway and make sure as you say you all have the same approach to cars. Mechanical sympathy etc and letting it warm up. you know what your mates are like with their cars as you've been in their cars with them right? If it does go pop, who is to say it wans't the last guy driving it that caused the damage? It isn't necessarily the driver at the time that is the culprit! Hence, split it three ways and hope it doesn't happen.
Good luck, it'll be fun. My mate and I went away on a few road trips as well, it definitely made it even more fun knowing the car was joint owned.
Just a thought, but if you're resigned to joint membership, have you considered one of the supercar clubs instead? Don't know how the costs would stack up in comparison, but at least you'd always get your hands on something to drive if you wanted, so no problem if your mate was driving it that weekend instead. Maybe less hassle overall?
yeah, have considered the supercar clubs in the past, but it's not quite the same as owning your own. granted you would have access to a wide range of cars, but it feels like more of a hassle having to arrange a booking for them each time you want to go for a drive.
by owning your own, if i'm bored one evening, i could just take the 360 for an hours spin without much advance notice. we also get to go and choose the car. i always enjoy the car hunting aspect of buying a car :-)
by owning your own, if i'm bored one evening, i could just take the 360 for an hours spin without much advance notice. we also get to go and choose the car. i always enjoy the car hunting aspect of buying a car :-)
I looked into this with an Aston years ago, and decided against it: too many "if's". Here's a few for starters
Who looks after it? Do the others pay them rent? Who cleans it? Do they pay you for your time? what if you decide not to clean it one weekend as you're too busy. Are you looking after it as per the arrangement?
What if, as someone else says, it breaks if you're driving it, yet you werent doing anythhing wrong. Would you really say "yes, I was driving it at the time, albeit at 70mph in top gear on the Motorway, so I should pay", or are you likely to start asking questions about how it was driven beforehand...
If you are the named driver, and the others get a BIG speeding ticket- say 100mph+- ie instant ban, and you are the named driver on insurance, what happens then? And if your friend starts to be unsure about whether he was driving it then?
What happens when someone wants out? Can you afford to buy them out, or do you both have to sell?
All of these can be agreed beforehand, of coruse. But there is a lot of ifs and buts. Too many for me and my mate, we decided
Who looks after it? Do the others pay them rent? Who cleans it? Do they pay you for your time? what if you decide not to clean it one weekend as you're too busy. Are you looking after it as per the arrangement?
What if, as someone else says, it breaks if you're driving it, yet you werent doing anythhing wrong. Would you really say "yes, I was driving it at the time, albeit at 70mph in top gear on the Motorway, so I should pay", or are you likely to start asking questions about how it was driven beforehand...
If you are the named driver, and the others get a BIG speeding ticket- say 100mph+- ie instant ban, and you are the named driver on insurance, what happens then? And if your friend starts to be unsure about whether he was driving it then?
What happens when someone wants out? Can you afford to buy them out, or do you both have to sell?
All of these can be agreed beforehand, of coruse. But there is a lot of ifs and buts. Too many for me and my mate, we decided
williamp with respect you are exactly the kind of guy not made for this type of arrangement, you've got to be a bit more relaxed about it and realise that something might go wrong - also acknowleding that if it does it's a supercar and you're going to pay, no matter who was driving. Hopefully three mates can be sensible about it and not get too anal or precious. Thats how it worked for me.
if its a race car and you are all in it for fun, and agree to keep a float in an account for the running, and all contribute equally each time it needs topped up then id say it could be fun, many are run exactly by this model....for a road car id suggest no way.
its a bomb that will just keep ticking. you might get lucky and end the adventure before it goes off, but you may not.
if you cant get into one normally then dont bother, its just a car after all.
i bought my ferrari outright for cash, and i dont ever scrimp on work it needs. theres been times its hardly needed anything, and times its cost me 5 figure main dealer bills without any major component breakdown. parts arent cheap, labour isnt cheap and these cars are far more electrically based than a porsche (i have a gt3 and a cup race car too amongst others). when they start to go wrong its a trip to the dealer, you cant just muddle along and deal with it later as it most likely will hardly be driveable.
i cant see how if i was in a position where i couldnt have afforded the car by itself, how i would have been in a position to have covered these repair bills.
if you are all happy to stick 10k each into an account for burning away on car expenses over a year and be ok with getting none back (you may get most of it back but you need to be prepared to not get any) then it may work out fine for you guys, but i suspect that if you can do that you could have just bought your own one.
imho you would all be better served joining some sort of car club and having your fun that way.
had you been looking at a brand new, financed and under full warranty ferrari then this may have seemed more workable, the financial risk factors are massively mitigated but it just seems a huge potential to loose your friends and end up skint for the sake of a car.
its a bomb that will just keep ticking. you might get lucky and end the adventure before it goes off, but you may not.
if you cant get into one normally then dont bother, its just a car after all.
i bought my ferrari outright for cash, and i dont ever scrimp on work it needs. theres been times its hardly needed anything, and times its cost me 5 figure main dealer bills without any major component breakdown. parts arent cheap, labour isnt cheap and these cars are far more electrically based than a porsche (i have a gt3 and a cup race car too amongst others). when they start to go wrong its a trip to the dealer, you cant just muddle along and deal with it later as it most likely will hardly be driveable.
i cant see how if i was in a position where i couldnt have afforded the car by itself, how i would have been in a position to have covered these repair bills.
if you are all happy to stick 10k each into an account for burning away on car expenses over a year and be ok with getting none back (you may get most of it back but you need to be prepared to not get any) then it may work out fine for you guys, but i suspect that if you can do that you could have just bought your own one.
imho you would all be better served joining some sort of car club and having your fun that way.
had you been looking at a brand new, financed and under full warranty ferrari then this may have seemed more workable, the financial risk factors are massively mitigated but it just seems a huge potential to loose your friends and end up skint for the sake of a car.
Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 19th August 11:26
williamp said:
I looked into this with an Aston years ago, and decided against it: too many "if's". Here's a few for starters
Who looks after it? Do the others pay them rent? Who cleans it? Do they pay you for your time? what if you decide not to clean it one weekend as you're too busy. Are you looking after it as per the arrangement?
What if, as someone else says, it breaks if you're driving it, yet you werent doing anythhing wrong. Would you really say "yes, I was driving it at the time, albeit at 70mph in top gear on the Motorway, so I should pay", or are you likely to start asking questions about how it was driven beforehand...
If you are the named driver, and the others get a BIG speeding ticket- say 100mph+- ie instant ban, and you are the named driver on insurance, what happens then? And if your friend starts to be unsure about whether he was driving it then?
What happens when someone wants out? Can you afford to buy them out, or do you both have to sell?
All of these can be agreed beforehand, of coruse. But there is a lot of ifs and buts. Too many for me and my mate, we decided
hey williamp,Who looks after it? Do the others pay them rent? Who cleans it? Do they pay you for your time? what if you decide not to clean it one weekend as you're too busy. Are you looking after it as per the arrangement?
What if, as someone else says, it breaks if you're driving it, yet you werent doing anythhing wrong. Would you really say "yes, I was driving it at the time, albeit at 70mph in top gear on the Motorway, so I should pay", or are you likely to start asking questions about how it was driven beforehand...
If you are the named driver, and the others get a BIG speeding ticket- say 100mph+- ie instant ban, and you are the named driver on insurance, what happens then? And if your friend starts to be unsure about whether he was driving it then?
What happens when someone wants out? Can you afford to buy them out, or do you both have to sell?
All of these can be agreed beforehand, of coruse. But there is a lot of ifs and buts. Too many for me and my mate, we decided
thanks for the points. a lot of these thoughts have been floating around my head as well, and have been discussed between the three of us. it is a very good point about having to get it all agreed up front so everyone knows where they stand. we are getting a legal document drawn up with all the bullet points such as these things to agree on. it sounds tedious, but this will give everyone piece of mind.
I think the one risky thing is the person who is the main policy holder for the insurance. if any of the other named drivers has a crash in the car and has to make a claim, then it is going to affect the main policy holder's future insurance.
at the end of the day, it is a risk, and you have to trust the guys you are sharing with. there is potential for someone (or all of us) to get burnt. but hey, you only live once. if this doesn't work out, then i'll buy my own one :-)
fioran0 said:
if its a race car and you are all in it for fun, and agree to keep a float in an account for the running, and all contribute equally each time it needs topped up then id say it could be fun, many are run exactly by this model....for a road car id suggest no way.
its a bomb that will just keep ticking. you might get lucky and end the adventure before it goes off, but you may not.
if you cant get into one normally then dont bother, its just a car after all.
i bought my ferrari outright for cash, and i dont ever scrimp on work it needs. theres been times its hardly needed anything, and times its cost me 5 figure main dealer bills without any major component breakdown. parts arent cheap, labour isnt cheap and these cars are far more electrically based than a porsche (i have a gt3 and a cup race car too amongst others). when they start to go wrong its a trip to the dealer, you cant just muddle along and deal with it later as it most likely will hardly be driveable.
i cant see how if i was in a position where i couldnt have afforded the car by itself, how i would have been in a position to have covered these repair bills.
if you are all happy to stick 10k each into an account for burning away on car expenses over a year and be ok with getting none back (you may get most of it back but you need to be prepared to not get any) then it may work out fine for you guys, but i suspect that if you can do that you could have just bought your own one.
imho you would all be better served joining some sort of car club and having your fun that way.
had you been looking at a brand new, financed and under full warranty ferrari then this may have seemed more workable, the financial risk factors are massively mitigated but it just seems a huge potential to loose your friends and end up skint for the sake of a car.
yeah, the loosing your friends part is a risk. all too easy to get into an argument over something. finance isn't an issue with us. we're all on decent salaries and can comfortably afford to own and run one by ourselves.its a bomb that will just keep ticking. you might get lucky and end the adventure before it goes off, but you may not.
if you cant get into one normally then dont bother, its just a car after all.
i bought my ferrari outright for cash, and i dont ever scrimp on work it needs. theres been times its hardly needed anything, and times its cost me 5 figure main dealer bills without any major component breakdown. parts arent cheap, labour isnt cheap and these cars are far more electrically based than a porsche (i have a gt3 and a cup race car too amongst others). when they start to go wrong its a trip to the dealer, you cant just muddle along and deal with it later as it most likely will hardly be driveable.
i cant see how if i was in a position where i couldnt have afforded the car by itself, how i would have been in a position to have covered these repair bills.
if you are all happy to stick 10k each into an account for burning away on car expenses over a year and be ok with getting none back (you may get most of it back but you need to be prepared to not get any) then it may work out fine for you guys, but i suspect that if you can do that you could have just bought your own one.
imho you would all be better served joining some sort of car club and having your fun that way.
had you been looking at a brand new, financed and under full warranty ferrari then this may have seemed more workable, the financial risk factors are massively mitigated but it just seems a huge potential to loose your friends and end up skint for the sake of a car.
Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 19th August 11:26
out of interest, what sort of issues have you had which has meant spending 30k a year on your 360?
My god what a load of whinging negative old women a lot of you are.
A few years ago I shared a 360 with a good mate. He put the finance in his name I did a standing order into his account for half the amount every month.
He had the car for 1 month, I had it the next month.
We shared 50/50 any repaires
The joint ownership was noted by the insurance company and was never a problem.
When we sold it the difference after the finance company was paid was split 50/50.
What is the problem with that??
I share 26 supercars with my business partner Andy now and that has never caused problems either.
If you don't take a chance in life you might as well give up now and go work in a fish factory. Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill
A few years ago I shared a 360 with a good mate. He put the finance in his name I did a standing order into his account for half the amount every month.
He had the car for 1 month, I had it the next month.
We shared 50/50 any repaires
The joint ownership was noted by the insurance company and was never a problem.
When we sold it the difference after the finance company was paid was split 50/50.
What is the problem with that??
I share 26 supercars with my business partner Andy now and that has never caused problems either.
If you don't take a chance in life you might as well give up now and go work in a fish factory. Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill
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