Is a Zonda really worth it?

[Streetrod]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

Right - just got back so I thought I would give it to you unedited and whilst its fresh in my mind.

Firstly, it is the car at Romans.

They want £950K for it and it is SOR.

It is in the process of being registered in the UK and will end up on either 57 plate or an 08 plate. A service will also be included which be carried out by Joe Macari.

In answer to the question about the Veyron and Koenigsegg:

Veyron first: I realised that I never really fell in love with the Veyron. I haven't drive it so of course my opinion is uninformed. I realised wanting one was never about liking the car though, it was about what it was to others more than what is was to me. With hindsight, I'm glad I didn't take it further. I'm not saying I never will, but It never stole my heart like the LP640 or the Zonda.

Koenigsegg: As some here will know, I did test drive it and I did like it for being bonkers but there was something missing. I'm no motoring journalist so I won't use a lot of clever metaphor but I didn't covet it and it was a lot of money too.

Back to today.

The car is practically brand new. I didn't drive it. The current owner has apparently expressly forbid anyone from doing so! The salesman wants to go back to him with an offer before organising a test drive. I have made it very clear that I won't even consider buying it without a proper test drive- and I don't mean half a mile up the road!

If one could ever use the word understated to describe the spec of a Zonda F, this would be it. it is certainly the least offensive exterior/interior combo I have seen. A minor thing - with a contrast paint colour, the raw carbon bits really stick out which I like. In this colour way the difference is a lot more subtle. It has a couple of optional extras over and above the norm. They are

Clubsport pack
Carbon Ceramic brakes
Titanium/Inconel Exhaust System
T907F gearbox upgrade.

Most are self explanatory. I'm not sure what a gearbox upgrade is. Dealer didn't seem to be too sure either. Any ideas anyone?

To put it bluntly, it is fantastic and really is a special bit of kit. It was sat next to a Veyron on one side and an Enzo on the other, and I only had eyes for the Pagani.

I think it's too expensive and I expressed that. The sales man disagreed. (of Course). I know Mosi's mate sold his for £850K but it fell out of bed and I suspect the white car that Tommy has can be bought for £850k too. If I was to put an offer in, it would be in that ball park.

As fas at the mechanics of the deal are concerned, I would indeed sell my LP640 and my Mclaren shortly after it arrives.

I drove back in my LP640 which I had valeted yesterday so its gleaming and I'm genuinely torn. I really do love that Lambo and it costs a fraction of the Zonda. I know there are 'technically' better cars but it does make me smile in a way super cars are supposed too. Problem is the Zonda does too. I went with my cousin who definitely thinks I should buy the Pagani and that if I did, I'd probably never sell it.

I'm going to go back and drive it and have a more in depth chat about the mechanics of the deal.

So in conclusion, I'm stil on the fence. Maybe a a blat down the 217 in the sunshine will be all it needs...................

Lambo, are you my evil twin as it appears with both had exactly the same conversation with Romans?

To answer a couple of you points. In the world of Zonda's this is one of the more subtle one's but over a long term ownership I think that is a good thing. If you prefer more contrast then the white car is available from Tommy.

The Gearbox was up rated when the F came into being as they produced almost twice as much power as the C12 when it first came out.

All F's now have the Clubsport package, a couple of early cars did not but they have now been upgraded.

Again back to the price. I pointed out to the Anthony that the owner if he sold at £950k would have made over 100% profit on a car that was only just 3 years old. What ever way you look at that that is a big pill to swallow and was hard to justify. But as you said he felt it was worth it. My counter to that was a car was only worth what someone was willing to pay, but then that applies to all things

PS
To Jonny5 who asked about getting a new car built, I am pretty sure that is not possible now as the available engines from AMG have all now been accounted for in the last couple of specials being built this year.

Also the cost is silly, you would be looking at close to £1.5 million plus local taxes

Edited by Streetrod on Wednesday 4th May 14:36

[TISPKJ]

The idea of having one of these cars built again for you sounds fab.

One question though, how can they have been built and sold for 450k ish 3 years ago and now we are talking 1.5m ?

Also, would the replacement AMG powerplant not be possible to fit ?

p.s Also dont see any mention of the F40 anywhere in this thread !

[Roberty]

TISPKJ said:

The idea of having one of these cars built again for you sounds fab.

One question though, how can they have been built and sold for 450k ish 3 years ago and now we are talking 1.5m ?

Also, would the replacement AMG powerplant not be possible to fit ?

p.s Also dont see any mention of the F40 anywhere in this thread !

Yeah I'd rather an Aventador and an F40 (Or 288GTO) than just one car even if that one car is a Zonda.

One as your supercar weekend/daily driver and the other the appreciating classic with genuine pedigree.

[T33JOB]

o/t, but Streetrod, you have pm...(may have gone to junk mail)

[Justices]

Agree with Jonny5, talk directly with Horacio as he may also know of another example that might be available but not being advertised.

I honestly wouldn't think twice about parting company with the other cars as they can be bought again. It sounds like you will hold on to the Zonda for a very long time and the car just feels like it is going to hold/go up in value. High quality workmanship will ensure its longevity, small numbers will ensure demand. Even though 850k is a staggering amount of money for a modern car, 950k seems steep to me.

I know it's clichéd.. but you really only do live once and should you be in the fortunate position to do so, you owe it to yourself to experience as many truly great things as possible. The Zonda is motoring masterpiece and deserves to be in the garage of someone who can do more than just stump up the funds to own it. It deserves a true petrolhead as custodian. I am completely biased here (and have only been passenger in one) but the Zonda is one of the most surreal motoring experiences I've had. I suspect the test drive will clear up any lingering doubt.

Good luck with the offer!

[Streetrod]

Roberty said:

TISPKJ said:

The idea of having one of these cars built again for you sounds fab.

One question though, how can they have been built and sold for 450k ish 3 years ago and now we are talking 1.5m ?

Also, would the replacement AMG powerplant not be possible to fit ?

p.s Also dont see any mention of the F40 anywhere in this thread !

Yeah I'd rather an Aventador and an F40 (Or 288GTO) than just one car even if that one car is a Zonda.

One as your supercar weekend/daily driver and the other the appreciating classic with genuine pedigree.

That’s an interesting comment.. Over 1300 F40's were produced between 1987 and 1992. Thats ten times as many Zonda's. Current values seem to range between £325K and £400k. Factor in inflation over the last 20 odd years and too be honest the F40 does not look like that great an financial investment great car as it is.

As for pedigree, that has always been a thorny subject. Back in the 60's when the 250 GTO was produced Ferrari had not been around for that much longer than Pagani has been today. If you had spent your £6000 on one back then, which was expensive for the time, you would now be sitting on an asset worth in excess of £20 million.

Who's not to say that Pagani's heritage could not go on as long, making the Zonda of today a rock solid investment? This is all speculative of course.

But let’s not forget that Pagani can trace his roots back to when he developed the first carbon Lamborghini Countach back in 1984 and was responsible for the design of the Countach Anniversary. So he has form and what you would call pedigree.

As for why the Zonda's became so expensive, Pagani realised that he was shooting himself in the foot when the F started trading above the retail price on the second hand market whilst he was still producing them. So when the run of 50 F coupes and roadsters were finished he introduced the Carbon Titanium tubs on the Cinque's. These cost a hell of a lot more to produce so gave him the opportunity to raise his prices significantly. As all cars produced after the Cinque's have had the carbon titanium tubs along with various other mechanical and cosmetic upgrades Pagani has justified the massive price increases

[Roberty]

Streetrod said:

Roberty said:

TISPKJ said:

The idea of having one of these cars built again for you sounds fab.

One question though, how can they have been built and sold for 450k ish 3 years ago and now we are talking 1.5m ?

Also, would the replacement AMG powerplant not be possible to fit ?

p.s Also dont see any mention of the F40 anywhere in this thread !

Yeah I'd rather an Aventador and an F40 (Or 288GTO) than just one car even if that one car is a Zonda.

One as your supercar weekend/daily driver and the other the appreciating classic with genuine pedigree.

That’s an interesting comment.. Over 1300 F40's were produced between 1987 and 1992. Thats ten times as many Zonda's. Current values seem to range between £325K and £400k. Factor in inflation over the last 20 odd years and too be honest the F40 does not look like that great an financial investment great car as it is.

As for pedigree, that has always been a thorny subject. Back in the 60's when the 250 GTO was produced Ferrari had not been around for that much longer than Pagani has been today. If you had spent your £6000 on one back then, which was expensive for the time, you would now be sitting on an asset worth in excess of £20 million.

Who's not to say that Pagani's heritage could not go on as long, making the Zonda of today a rock solid investment? This is all speculative of course.

But let’s not forget that Pagani can trace his roots back to when he developed the first carbon Lamborghini Countach back in 1984 and was responsible for the design of the Countach Anniversary. So he has form and what you would call pedigree.

As for why the Zonda's became so expensive, Pagani realised that he was shooting himself in the foot when the F started trading above the retail price on the second hand market whilst he was still producing them. So when the run of 50 F coupes and roadsters were finished he introduced the Carbon Titanium tubs on the Cinque's. These cost a hell of a lot more to produce so gave him the opportunity to raise his prices significantly. As all cars produced after the Cinque's have had the carbon titanium tubs along with various other mechanical and cosmetic upgrades Pagani has justified the massive price increases

Totally agree about Pagani's heritage but personally for me I'd rather have two or three good cars than one very expensive one.

The OP is concerned he could lose a vast wedge on a Zonda, there would be a lot less risk with a Ferrari F40 or 288GTO, firstly they are appreciating, slowly maybe but they appreciating and secondly there half the price of the Zonda, so less wedge to lose if they do slip.

I'm sure your right the Zonda will probably keep going up and up in value but it's by no means a sure thing and I believe the OP's more worried about losing money than he is about making it!

[Roberty]

I'd imagine this purchase is going to be a hard fight between Head and Heart.

[munch997]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8oOgXBj1l0&fea...

Having just watched this video, Money would go straight on a Zonda, no question... Also, the wing mirrors look aweful on this, I suppose I should really wait to see one, but i'm not too sure how long that will be, or if I actualy want to.

Can the Zonda not be compared to the Enzo? Both were sub 4-500k new, now selling for 800k+ in some cases... and look at the numbers which were produced! Well worth the punt as they will only get rarer.

[gtoguy]

Compare that video to exhibit b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiroepFi1fw&fea...

Case closed

[uzzi]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

I drove back in my LP640 which I had valeted yesterday so its gleaming and I'm genuinely torn. I really do love that Lambo and it costs a fraction of the Zonda. I know there are 'technically' better cars but it does make me smile in a way super cars are supposed too. Problem is the Zonda does too. I went with my cousin who definitely thinks I should buy the Pagani and that if I did, I'd probably never sell it.

Mate, I think you've answered the question right there.

LP640, Mclaren etc can be bought time and time again...but if this is a car that you're willing to keep 'forever', then clearly your decision is simple! What would you do if in 5 years' time these were offered at £1.5m?

In my humble opinion, you only live once, there is no time for 'what if' moments. If it doesn't affect your day-to-day life, lift the Zonda and be happy knowing you've achieved a dream

:-)

[northo]

jonny5 said:

For that level of money , have you approached the factory to see if they will build you a 'F' ?

Good thinking.

[christofmccracke]

I would buy an f better investment and a better car to drive, but think about the cars your selling, will they be more fun ?

[RevHappy]

How much use do you intend to use the Zonda if you get one?
They do have a show car image, so if you really used it would you kill it's value?
So I still stand by my earlier post which has had it's sentiment echoed.
Time poor, Zonda. Time rich, keep the fleet.

[northo]

christofmccracke said:

I would buy an f better investment and a better car to drive, but think about the cars your selling, will they be more fun ?

More fun than a Zonda?

[Harry Riddles]

gtoguy said:

Compare that video to exhibit b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiroepFi1fw&fea...

Case closed

And exhibit C http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SGpOEiufKI

I think Zonda's are awesome cars, sat inside and seen many and they never get boring- stunning pieces of art. The dilemma between 3 "supercars" and 1 Zonda is a head/heart situation as mentioned above. But if you can bring together the money to afford and more importantly maintain and Zonda then go for it.

Here a few Zonda's I have seen, there are a few Zonda's on the market now too, I guess values are uncertain for now but I would have one over a Veyron any day, they are very special cars. My personal favourite is the F, one of the less fussy and cleaner in style, before they added several vents, fins, stripes etc.

[jontysafe]

Can I just say its nice to see a thread like this on Pistonheads. Good to see that car nuts with a certain amount of wealth have exactly the same dilemmas as all of us when it comes to the big purchases.
I've been umming an ahhing for ages about getting a Ferrari, and probably will for a bit longer. Whether its 10K or 1000000K its all relative.
Good luck with your decision.

[MR Kirbyz]

What about a Saleen s7 twin turbo. Not to everyones taste but from reviews an extremely good performance car.
However, not sure baout the import issues i.e whether they can be registered in Britain. If they can they must be very rare!

[alan witt]

You want to ask shoebag about that one, I guess she is looking into it now that her Egg has sold
Hope she keeps us all informed if this is the case!

[Beefmeister]

MR Kirbyz said:

What about a Saleen s7 twin turbo. Not to everyones taste but from reviews an extremely good performance car.
However, not sure baout the import issues i.e whether they can be registered in Britain. If they can they must be very rare!

Genuinely no offence meant to you, but to mention the Saleen in the same sentence as the Zonda is akin to wiping your arse on Horatio's tie.