E46 330d turbo problem - pressure back into air filter

[H6CJF]

Symptoms -

Black smoke on idle - not loads, but too much

Significant lack of power, mucho black smoke on initial acceleration and very 'juddery' at c 2000 rpm on light throttle

On boost, loud 'whooshing' - as if hose off / holed. However, removing the air filter, you find that the whooshing is coming back up the intake and therfore back through the MAF sensor.

Air filter is quite sooty.

I had 'whoosh' problems with this car a few weeks ago and found the inlet manifold split. Sorted that and it was fine for a while & now we have this.

The only other thing I have done recently is replaced one injector. (The injector IS exactly the same code) However, I fail to see any way this could be linked to what would appear (to me) to be a mechanical issue rather than an engine management problem.

Any ideas chaps cos at the moment I'm thinking Turbo.... ?

ETA it's a 51 plate 330d spt manual saloon done 160k

Edited by H6CJF on Tuesday 19th July 16:07

[Jimmyarm]

Did you put the turbo hoses on the right way round ?

Black smoke means its over fuelling.

When you say 'whooshing' is there actual air coming back up through the airbox ?

[H6CJF]

Yep... air coming back up into the air filter housing .. no hoses removed at any time..

[bertelli_1]

Does it have a dump valve? It could be stuck.

[H18 ENF]

Hi all (its my car)

I'm not the mechanical one - thus Dads doing the posting, but my understanding is that e46 diesels don't come with a dump valve and its not something I've retro-fitted. I could be very wrong though!

I'm rather hoping its not a new turbo needed... 'cos if it is its essentially written it off... So please do suggest alternatives to keep it alive...

Cheers!
Ben

[seagrey]

Crankcase breather,Its quite common for these to block,fitted to the cam cover.

[sprinter11]

As above
Dealer only part

What's the mileage on your car?

Get the whole unit not jus the loo roll type filter

It's about £40 and sits at the back left of the engine bay

Drop me a email if you need more help

Ive had 6 m57 engines lol

[H6CJF]

Morning chaps

Seagrey, Sprinter - thanks for the suggestion. However, I would be surprised if it were the breather as a) it was only replaced less than 12 months / 10,000 miles ago & b) This is a 'sudden' failure.

Having pondered on this over night I'm thinking about either a MAP problem or possibly vac hose? It seems that what is happening is the 'wastegate' is actuating too early? From looking at other threads, the fail safe mode (if there is no vacuum)is to remain 'open' - ie recirculating boost pressure back to the inlet side of the turbo.

I shall do some hose tracing later but in the meantime any other input welcome..... Got to get the lad back on the road... I want MY car back

[Mr2Mike]

Doesn't the 330D have a variable geometry turbo i.e. no wastegate? Have you checked the EGR valve?

[powerstroke]

H6CJF said:

Morning chaps

Seagrey, Sprinter - thanks for the suggestion. However, I would be surprised if it were the breather as a) it was only replaced less than 12 months / 10,000 miles ago & b) This is a 'sudden' failure.

Having pondered on this over night I'm thinking about either a MAP problem or possibly vac hose? It seems that what is happening is the 'wastegate' is actuating too early? From looking at other threads, the fail safe mode (if there is no vacuum)is to remain 'open' - ie recirculating boost pressure back to the inlet side of the turbo.

I shall do some hose tracing later but in the meantime any other input welcome..... Got to get the lad back on the road... I want MY car back

sounds more like a EGR valve problem IE stuck open so exhaust is being pushed into the inlet manifold... the other possibilty is there is a blockage in the cat or exhaust .....

[H6CJF]

Mr2Mike said:

Doesn't the 330D have a variable geometry turbo i.e. no wastegate? Have you checked the EGR valve?

Yes it does - hence my 'wastegate' as it does perform the same function and is more widely known term. As I undertand it the vane position is determined by vacuum - hence my thoughts turning in that direction.

Powerstroke, thanks for that but it is definately 'boost' that's getting back rather than exhaust

I have meetings this morning so will get round to having another look after lunch and reprt back

Cheers all

Chris

[powerstroke]

H6CJF said:

Mr2Mike said:

Doesn't the 330D have a variable geometry turbo i.e. no wastegate? Have you checked the EGR valve?

Yes it does - hence my 'wastegate' as it does perform the same function and is more widely known term. As I undertand it the vane position is determined by vacuum - hence my thoughts turning in that direction.

Powerstroke, thanks for that but it is definately 'boost' that's getting back rather than exhaust

I have meetings this morning so will get round to having another look after lunch and reprt back

Cheers all

Chris

how could boost be "getting back"...!!!!!!????LOL the turbo only blows when there is exhaust presure to spin it , I think the turbo is the least likely cause

[H6CJF]

powerstroke said:

I think the turbo is the least likely cause

I tend to agree. I was under the impression that although there is no wastegate / dump valve, there was still a recirculation device of some sort to recycle excess boost back into the inlet side of the turbo. If I'm wrong then fair enough.

So, I think its a case of starting at the beginning (wherever that is lol) and working through logically, cleaning checking etc

I just don't understand why there is so much noise coming up through the air intake 'from' the turbo once rpm reaches around 2500 - 3000. Anyway, as I say, I will take a logical step by step approach and see where we end up

Thanks again

[H6CJF]

Update:

Right - still no better but here's what I've done so far:

- Cleaned out the EGR valve and checked that it moves!
- Cleaned the MAP sensor
- Cleaned out the crankcase breather
- Checked the turbo actuator arm moves ok
- Checked all vac hoses and electrical connectors are on tight


With the air filter removed, when I rev it, foot down - black smoke comes out of the MAF sensor, (yes I know its supposedly drawing air in at that point but as I hit the pedal and it gets to around 1700/2000rpm there is definately black smoke coming out of the MAF itself. Foot off as it reaches c3000 & I get the 'dump valve' noise coming back up the intake. I am beginning to suspect turbo internal seals or something - dunno.. I'm a bit stumped with this one. Oh, and plus it is running like a bag of spanners, hesitating, running on five under load ... you name it.

Even with a duff injector it was running better than this!

Anybody want a 330d?

[Mr2Mike]

H6CJF said:

I tend to agree. I was under the impression that although there is no wastegate / dump valve, there was still a recirculation device of some sort to recycle excess boost back into the inlet side of the turbo. If I'm wrong then fair enough.

A wastegate is a boost control device, as are the variable nozzles. Neither of these recirculate boost, they simply control the flow of exhaust gasses through the turbine and they have nothing to do with dump valves. A diverter/recirculating valve on the inlet can be used to recirculate boost, but diesels don't tend to have them as there isn't a throttle butterfly to generate the high peak boosts that would mandate their use.

Have you checked the turbo itself is ok and not on deaths door? Could it have swallowed a swirl flap? That could explain the running on 5 problem, and a slightly bent inlet valve could cause any combustion products to be pushed into the inlet.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Wednesday 20th July 17:38

[H6CJF]

Mr2Mike said:

Could it have swallowed a swirl flap? That could explain the running on 5 problem, and a slightly bent inlet valve could cause any combustion products to be pushed into the inlet.

No swirl flaps fitted... I made sure of that when I swapped the manifold a few weeks ago.

Turbo isnt making any odd noises so I am a bit flummoxed. I'm going to pop it over to a local Indy tomorrow to see if he has any ideas.

To think, I was a fully qualified diesel tech in 1972.... it's all changed a bit since then lol!

[Mr2Mike]

H6CJF said:

No swirl flaps fitted... I made sure of that when I swapped the manifold a few weeks ago.

Turbo isnt making any odd noises so I am a bit flummoxed. I'm going to pop it over to a local Indy tomorrow to see if he has any ideas.

To think, I was a fully qualified diesel tech in 1972.... it's all changed a bit since then lol!

I helped my brother rebuild the engine on his 320D recently (lack of oil incident after it sprang a major oil leak); it's unbelievable just how many cables and pipes a modern common rail engine needs. The rebuild was a piece of cake compared to refitting the bloody thing in the car.

[japaaz]

Hello everyone. I found this topic from google, and decided to register to PistonHeads, as i am having exactly this same problem as the Original Poster. It is possible that he is not even using this forum anymore, as this topic is from 2011...

So... my car is a 330d, with the m57n engine, manual transmission. Car is remapped but been working 100 000 kilometres with a remap so far.

And, i am having exactly the same issues as shown in this topic... anyone solved this problem? Couldnt find anything more useful from the internet, than this topic.

[crossy67]

Not 100% on the EGR design of the BMW but if possible try making a blanking washer to put in the EGR to manifold line to eliminate that 1st.

[H18 ENF]

japaaz said:

Hello everyone. I found this topic from google, and decided to register to PistonHeads, as i am having exactly this same problem as the Original Poster. It is possible that he is not even using this forum anymore, as this topic is from 2011...

So... my car is a 330d, with the m57n engine, manual transmission. Car is remapped but been working 100 000 kilometres with a remap so far.

And, i am having exactly the same issues as shown in this topic... anyone solved this problem? Couldnt find anything more useful from the internet, than this topic.

Hi OP's Son here...

It was my car but cannot for the life of me remember what the issue was now. Will check with OP to see if he can and report back!

Good luck!