Ford Focus MOT Emissions failure
Discussion
Tony427 said:
This was next on my list following loads of research on almost every Ford Forum and indeed when last at the local car parts emporium ( Saturday) I asked them if they could supply me with a replacement PCV valve.
Unfortunately it appears to be a Ford Dealer Only part. However it is coming out tomorrow afternoon for a good clean at the very least. I will report back.
Cheers,
Tony
Well its not the PCV valve or the the pipes between it and the inlet manifold. Unfortunately it appears to be a Ford Dealer Only part. However it is coming out tomorrow afternoon for a good clean at the very least. I will report back.
Cheers,
Tony
I took off the inlet manifold this afternoon and gave it a good clean inside and a really good check over as well as the breather pipes. All were good. The PCV valve itself was only £9 from Ford so I bought a new one anyway as the inlet manifold is not coming off again under my tenure.
What was heartening was just how clean the inlet tracts were and how shiny the valves were. Compared to how coked up old cars used to get at half the mileage this one has done I was frankly amazed.
So, time for a beer, a bit of a read of the fuel system part of the Focus workshop manual and some more thinking.
Cheers,
Tony
Has no one mentioned coolant sensor yet? I did scan read! Used to sell loads of those when I worked at Ford.
You say there are no air leaks, but IIRC theres a rubber pipe with a T-piece in under the inlet manifold (assuming it's Sigma?) which goes weak and collapses in on itself under certain amounts of vacuum, completely screwing any sensors which are relying on it to pass air. Think one end goes to the inlet, another to the crank vent and one more to something else, which eludes me at the mo.
You say there are no air leaks, but IIRC theres a rubber pipe with a T-piece in under the inlet manifold (assuming it's Sigma?) which goes weak and collapses in on itself under certain amounts of vacuum, completely screwing any sensors which are relying on it to pass air. Think one end goes to the inlet, another to the crank vent and one more to something else, which eludes me at the mo.
Tony427 said:
Hi Guys,
Still having a problem with the Focus unable to hold a high idle between 2200 and 2900rpm. Revs to 3000rpm, holds it for a few seconds then drops to 2200 rpm and starts "hunting". Whilst revs are dropping no throttle inputs have any effect.
Took it for a computer diagnostics check at the weekend and there's no fault codes, but the technician said there's two possible causes, the idle control valve and the second O2 sensor after the cat.
I have therefore replaced both, with absolutely zero effect.
Suffice to say I've spunked loads of cash on relacing the following and its all been wasted.
Diagnostic check who couldn't find anything wrong.
New coil pack.
New plugs ( leads only 15,000 miles old)
New idle control valve
New Pre cat O2 sensor.
New Post cat O2 sensor
New Absolute Manifold pressure sensor.
New Throttle position sensor.
All of these things had zero effect.
The throttle body has been cleaned ( but was very clean anyway)and the air filter is only 5000 miles old.
Anyone got any ideas at all?
I don't normally get involved in engine specific diagnostic issues because I'm an engine theory generalist and engine specific diagnostics require one to know details of engine specific control systems. However as you seem to be having ongoing problems...Still having a problem with the Focus unable to hold a high idle between 2200 and 2900rpm. Revs to 3000rpm, holds it for a few seconds then drops to 2200 rpm and starts "hunting". Whilst revs are dropping no throttle inputs have any effect.
Took it for a computer diagnostics check at the weekend and there's no fault codes, but the technician said there's two possible causes, the idle control valve and the second O2 sensor after the cat.
I have therefore replaced both, with absolutely zero effect.
Suffice to say I've spunked loads of cash on relacing the following and its all been wasted.
Diagnostic check who couldn't find anything wrong.
New coil pack.
New plugs ( leads only 15,000 miles old)
New idle control valve
New Pre cat O2 sensor.
New Post cat O2 sensor
New Absolute Manifold pressure sensor.
New Throttle position sensor.
All of these things had zero effect.
The throttle body has been cleaned ( but was very clean anyway)and the air filter is only 5000 miles old.
Anyone got any ideas at all?
Your problem only manifests in a very specific rpm band therefore any faulty component that would have to affect other, or indeed every, rpm band can't possibly be the source. That immediately rules out everything you've changed other than possibly the TPS if that had a faulty track in just one place. It's therefore obvious that changing all of these was a waste of money because they couldn't possibly only go wrong at one rpm. Maybe if you'd asked on here before changing any of them or just applied even the most basic logical analysis......
Anyhoo. If the throttle position ceases to have any effect when the revs are dropping then it looks like fuel (or maybe spark) has already been cut off. That makes me wonder if it's something to do with the overrun fuel cut off system which should cut fuel when the throttle is shut above a certain rpm and road speed. This may be triggered by a switch on the butterfly valve which lets the ecu know when the throttle is shut but that's an engine specific issue of course. Someone else will have to chip in but if that is faulty it may not always know when the throttle is shut or open.
Another possibility is a fault in the ecu which is failing to map properly in certain places but that would be incredibly rare.
Finally I'd check with a Ford main dealer to see if it's a known issue which they may have a fix for.
Clearly anything that has to affect multiple rpm bands like coolant sensors can't be the problem so stop changing stuff at random!
As above.
If you are intent on trying to fix it yourself. The best thing you can do is buy some books to educate you how to fix it.
Most work can be done with a simple and relatively cheap automotive multimeter and some patience.
Or perhaps a lot of patience.
It's information you need, not random parts.
Although obviously access to a gas analyser would help in terms of finalising the matter.
But certainly not important for resolving the unstable rpm at fast idle.
With the money already spent, you'd have bought a good multimeter and a few books. And they would serve you much better in the future.
If you are intent on trying to fix it yourself. The best thing you can do is buy some books to educate you how to fix it.
Most work can be done with a simple and relatively cheap automotive multimeter and some patience.
Or perhaps a lot of patience.
It's information you need, not random parts.
Although obviously access to a gas analyser would help in terms of finalising the matter.
But certainly not important for resolving the unstable rpm at fast idle.
With the money already spent, you'd have bought a good multimeter and a few books. And they would serve you much better in the future.
Hmmm. I'm not really very well up on the cost of modern control system components like lambda sensors and manifold pressure sensors having never bought any of them but I'd have thought that for what he's changed already he could have had not only a multimeter and a few books but a replacement 2003 1.6 Ford Focus, or at least most of one.
Happily for me my 2001 2.0 Focus ESP never goes wrong and is still on its original battery, exhaust, plug wires, alternator, coolant, shocks and pretty much everything else other than brakes, tyres and windscreen wipers. It will now probably die instantly as I've tempted fate. I wonder if I ought to change the coolant one day? Nah, sod it. I put new oil in it 5 years ago and that's enough maintenance for one decade.
Happily for me my 2001 2.0 Focus ESP never goes wrong and is still on its original battery, exhaust, plug wires, alternator, coolant, shocks and pretty much everything else other than brakes, tyres and windscreen wipers. It will now probably die instantly as I've tempted fate. I wonder if I ought to change the coolant one day? Nah, sod it. I put new oil in it 5 years ago and that's enough maintenance for one decade.
Pumaracing said:
Maybe if you'd asked on here before changing any of them
as in my first post on 28th September
or just applied even the most basic logical analysis......
Yes I made the mistake of listening to mechanics in garages and paying for a useless diagnostics check.
Another possibility is a fault in the ecu which is failing to map properly in certain places but that would be incredibly rare.
Go on, cheer me up.
Finally I'd check with a Ford main dealer to see if it's a known issue which they may have a fix for.
I've asked " Bring it in and we'll have a look at it"
Clearly anything that has to affect multiple rpm bands like coolant sensors can't be the problem so stop changing stuff at random!
Only thing that I have changed at random ie without a logical reason behind it or as reccommended by "professionals", was the coil pack and I did indulge myself in a £9 PCV valve.
Cheers, as in my first post on 28th September
or just applied even the most basic logical analysis......
Yes I made the mistake of listening to mechanics in garages and paying for a useless diagnostics check.
Another possibility is a fault in the ecu which is failing to map properly in certain places but that would be incredibly rare.
Go on, cheer me up.
Finally I'd check with a Ford main dealer to see if it's a known issue which they may have a fix for.
I've asked " Bring it in and we'll have a look at it"
Clearly anything that has to affect multiple rpm bands like coolant sensors can't be the problem so stop changing stuff at random!
Only thing that I have changed at random ie without a logical reason behind it or as reccommended by "professionals", was the coil pack and I did indulge myself in a £9 PCV valve.
Tony
Pumaracing said:
Hmmm. I'm not really very well up on the cost of modern control system components like lambda sensors and manifold pressure sensors having never bought any of them but I'd have thought that for what he's changed already he could have had not only a multimeter and a few books but a replacement 2003 1.6 Ford Focus, or at least most of one.
Yes but think I've got a shed load of secondhand spares......for a car I hate. Cheers,
Tony
hi dont no if you found the problem with your focus? i have the same problem same car and same engine, tried a few things similer to yourself, found that if i disconect plug to idle control valve it revs perfect thru the range so have left it unplugged seems to run fine, still dont understand why but hey passed the mot and dosent flag the light hope this helps mike
I've had the same problem as the OP and disconnected the idle air control valve like suggested on the last post.
The car struggled to fire up and wouldn't tick over without my intervention with the accelerator pedal.
Local mechanic says he's seen a few focuses with this problem and says they haven't found a cure for it and tells his customers to sell the car before it's mot!
One thing I've noticed is that the earth point on the wings are all rusty and wonder if a dodgy earth would cause these problems?
The OP has told me the only other thing he hasn't tried is replacement of the exhaust manifold....he had a cheap after market one fitted just like the garage put on mine before I picked the car up in February...
The car struggled to fire up and wouldn't tick over without my intervention with the accelerator pedal.
Local mechanic says he's seen a few focuses with this problem and says they haven't found a cure for it and tells his customers to sell the car before it's mot!
One thing I've noticed is that the earth point on the wings are all rusty and wonder if a dodgy earth would cause these problems?
The OP has told me the only other thing he hasn't tried is replacement of the exhaust manifold....he had a cheap after market one fitted just like the garage put on mine before I picked the car up in February...
There's been a few guys pm'd me telling me the same problem, a cheap aftermarket exhaust manifold is fitted and then their problems start.
Suffice to say I also have a cheap aftermarket exhaust manifold fitted.
However since I am a typical PH aficianado with multiple directorships and a goatee and no need of a typical bog standard car, following the problems with my last MOT I have stuck the car into the garage where it is presently residing with its front 4 foot into the air and its exhaust manifold sitting on the ground.
I need to TAX/MOT it in May so prior to this I will fit a kosher Ford exhaust manifold and update those interested.
Cheers,
Tony
Suffice to say I also have a cheap aftermarket exhaust manifold fitted.
However since I am a typical PH aficianado with multiple directorships and a goatee and no need of a typical bog standard car, following the problems with my last MOT I have stuck the car into the garage where it is presently residing with its front 4 foot into the air and its exhaust manifold sitting on the ground.
I need to TAX/MOT it in May so prior to this I will fit a kosher Ford exhaust manifold and update those interested.
Cheers,
Tony
Tony
cheers for update and previous emails.
I've noticed on the vosa website the following link
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Emissions%20...
The 1.6 focus fast test must be 2800 - 3100 RPM......wonder why...lol
Another weird thing is that when I was driving at 40 mph today I put car in neutral, waited for revs to drop to tickover then revved to around 2500rpm and could hold it there, did the same at 15mph, same result....cannot see the difference between what i did today and doing when car at standstill.....only thing different is the speed sensor is picking up a different signal.
Look forward to hearing back from you once the manifold replaced
Cheers
Rob
cheers for update and previous emails.
I've noticed on the vosa website the following link
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Emissions%20...
The 1.6 focus fast test must be 2800 - 3100 RPM......wonder why...lol
Another weird thing is that when I was driving at 40 mph today I put car in neutral, waited for revs to drop to tickover then revved to around 2500rpm and could hold it there, did the same at 15mph, same result....cannot see the difference between what i did today and doing when car at standstill.....only thing different is the speed sensor is picking up a different signal.
Look forward to hearing back from you once the manifold replaced
Cheers
Rob
Interesting topic, I had a simillar problem, not a focus though, see below,
http://s776.photobucket.com/albums/yy43/AuroraCab6...
The same as the focus ?
Nissan couldn't fix it so I asked about the prob here,
http://forums.motester.co.uk/forum3/1849.html
It turned out to be my TPS, I unplugged the lower TPS connection and it cured my faulty rev prob
http://s776.photobucket.com/albums/yy43/AuroraCab6...
The same as the focus ?
Nissan couldn't fix it so I asked about the prob here,
http://forums.motester.co.uk/forum3/1849.html
It turned out to be my TPS, I unplugged the lower TPS connection and it cured my faulty rev prob
robj1969 said:
Tony
cheers for update and previous emails.
I've noticed on the vosa website the following link
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Emissions%20...
The 1.6 focus fast test must be 2800 - 3100 RPM......wonder why...lol
Another weird thing is that when I was driving at 40 mph today I put car in neutral, waited for revs to drop to tickover then revved to around 2500rpm and could hold it there, did the same at 15mph, same result....cannot see the difference between what i did today and doing when car at standstill.....only thing different is the speed sensor is picking up a different signal.
Look forward to hearing back from you once the manifold replaced
Cheers
Rob
Hi Rob, cheers for update and previous emails.
I've noticed on the vosa website the following link
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Emissions%20...
The 1.6 focus fast test must be 2800 - 3100 RPM......wonder why...lol
Another weird thing is that when I was driving at 40 mph today I put car in neutral, waited for revs to drop to tickover then revved to around 2500rpm and could hold it there, did the same at 15mph, same result....cannot see the difference between what i did today and doing when car at standstill.....only thing different is the speed sensor is picking up a different signal.
Look forward to hearing back from you once the manifold replaced
Cheers
Rob
Fitted the genuine Ford manifold and guess what?
Absolutely feck all difference, still cannot hold 2500 revs fast idle.
This must be a design/engine programming fault. theres nothing left to check, replace, no fault codes etc.
I will now be taking the car to a local MOT station, quoting the fast idle setting at them from the link above and tell them to get it through. I don't care how.
Thereupon I will be flogging the car to anyone who will have it and will never, never, ever buy another Ford.
I've learnt my lesson.
Cheers,
Tony
Tony
Cheers for update.
As I said in my last post, if my car is moving then i don't get the problem....the only thing you haven't mentioned changing is the speed sensor on the gearbox. Not sure how you go about testing one of these.
The earths on the wings look rather rusty on mine what about yours?
Rob
Cheers for update.
As I said in my last post, if my car is moving then i don't get the problem....the only thing you haven't mentioned changing is the speed sensor on the gearbox. Not sure how you go about testing one of these.
The earths on the wings look rather rusty on mine what about yours?
Rob
Just stumbled upon this thread and it has jogged my memory about the same fault I had with one of these years ago, which turned out to be a broken wire in the loom to the connector for the air mass meter.
I would therefore imagine that a faulty air mass meter could cause the same problem but I'm not suggesting you change any more parts.
Does the car have aircon, and if so does it make any difference to the revving if it's turned on?
I would therefore imagine that a faulty air mass meter could cause the same problem but I'm not suggesting you change any more parts.
Does the car have aircon, and if so does it make any difference to the revving if it's turned on?
oakdale said:
Just stumbled upon this thread and it has jogged my memory about the same fault I had with one of these years ago, which turned out to be a broken wire in the loom to the connector for the air mass meter.
I would therefore imagine that a faulty air mass meter could cause the same problem but I'm not suggesting you change any more parts.
Does the car have aircon, and if so does it make any difference to the revving if it's turned on?
All wiring on the engine loom has been checked and OK. I would therefore imagine that a faulty air mass meter could cause the same problem but I'm not suggesting you change any more parts.
Does the car have aircon, and if so does it make any difference to the revving if it's turned on?
No fault codes stored or triggered. Not tried revving the engine with air con on , but I'll give it a go for curiosity's sake.
Cheers,
Tony
Tony427 said:
robj1969 said:
Tony
cheers for update and previous emails.
I've noticed on the vosa website the following link
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Emissions%20...
The 1.6 focus fast test must be 2800 - 3100 RPM......wonder why...lol
Another weird thing is that when I was driving at 40 mph today I put car in neutral, waited for revs to drop to tickover then revved to around 2500rpm and could hold it there, did the same at 15mph, same result....cannot see the difference between what i did today and doing when car at standstill.....only thing different is the speed sensor is picking up a different signal.
Look forward to hearing back from you once the manifold replaced
Cheers
Rob
Hi Rob, cheers for update and previous emails.
I've noticed on the vosa website the following link
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Emissions%20...
The 1.6 focus fast test must be 2800 - 3100 RPM......wonder why...lol
Another weird thing is that when I was driving at 40 mph today I put car in neutral, waited for revs to drop to tickover then revved to around 2500rpm and could hold it there, did the same at 15mph, same result....cannot see the difference between what i did today and doing when car at standstill.....only thing different is the speed sensor is picking up a different signal.
Look forward to hearing back from you once the manifold replaced
Cheers
Rob
Fitted the genuine Ford manifold and guess what?
Absolutely feck all difference, still cannot hold 2500 revs fast idle.
This must be a design/engine programming fault. theres nothing left to check, replace, no fault codes etc.
I will now be taking the car to a local MOT station, quoting the fast idle setting at them from the link above and tell them to get it through. I don't care how.
Thereupon I will be flogging the car to anyone who will have it and will never, never, ever buy another Ford.
I've learnt my lesson.
Cheers,
Tony
Just an update.
After being heartily sick to death of the Focus I stuck it into my garage and forgot about it ( apart from occasionally starting it up and running it up to temperature to charge the battery) and ran around in the daughters Polo for the last 9 months as she was off doing her post degree travelling.
Then she came home, kidnapped her car from me, and so with a heavy heart and sense of trepidation last Thursday I dragged the Focus out of its coma and Without Touching a Thing On It took it to a different MOT Station.
I gave the garage owner a brief synopsis of my sorry tale who said that he'd MOT it and we'd go from there. I told him I'd be back after 5.00pm to discuss the options.
I walked the 30 minutes home, made a coffee, started watching the Olympic highlights and the phone went.
" Your cars ready for collection"
Me somewhat surprised " Erm, what, erm did it pass ? "
" Sailed through mate, sailed through."
It appears that the previous MOT centre was indeed unaware of the higher idle speed requirements of the Ford Focus as the emissions printout shows that the second test centre ran the fast idle at 3,000rpm and it was well within the limits on the first fast idle test.
Moral of the story: never assume the MOT centre knows what its doing, or his brother who owns the diagnostics centre next door knows one end of a engine control system from another.
Cheers,
Tony
After being heartily sick to death of the Focus I stuck it into my garage and forgot about it ( apart from occasionally starting it up and running it up to temperature to charge the battery) and ran around in the daughters Polo for the last 9 months as she was off doing her post degree travelling.
Then she came home, kidnapped her car from me, and so with a heavy heart and sense of trepidation last Thursday I dragged the Focus out of its coma and Without Touching a Thing On It took it to a different MOT Station.
I gave the garage owner a brief synopsis of my sorry tale who said that he'd MOT it and we'd go from there. I told him I'd be back after 5.00pm to discuss the options.
I walked the 30 minutes home, made a coffee, started watching the Olympic highlights and the phone went.
" Your cars ready for collection"
Me somewhat surprised " Erm, what, erm did it pass ? "
" Sailed through mate, sailed through."
It appears that the previous MOT centre was indeed unaware of the higher idle speed requirements of the Ford Focus as the emissions printout shows that the second test centre ran the fast idle at 3,000rpm and it was well within the limits on the first fast idle test.
Moral of the story: never assume the MOT centre knows what its doing, or his brother who owns the diagnostics centre next door knows one end of a engine control system from another.
Cheers,
Tony
I am having the same problem on my Audi A3 1.6 with AVU engine code. At the MOT centre the tester was not able to hold the rev between 2500 and 3000 rpm for the fast idle emission test.
Putting the AC on does allow you to have control on the throttle and you will be able to control the rev between those limits.
My car passed its MOT and I just need to remember putting the AC on next year when doing the same test.
Putting the AC on does allow you to have control on the throttle and you will be able to control the rev between those limits.
My car passed its MOT and I just need to remember putting the AC on next year when doing the same test.
Edited by Dhirajtr on Thursday 23 August 10:36
Edited by Dhirajtr on Thursday 23 August 10:37
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