Oil advice and recommendations here!

[opieoilman]

MGBV8 said:

Guy, Do you have any recommendations for oil fiters? Slick 50 had a mention but any views on this!! www.synlube.com/prod01.htm

Must be honest, I have not seen that one, American again, though so probably very expensive.

Some of the products on there are quite usefull, However I have never been a believer of addatives.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

Nick,

The same rules apply for your engine. You can do a lot better than the Magnatec if you wish, the Silkolene Pro R 15w-50 is a good modern alternative to the traditional mineral. The Pro R is an ester based oil, esters assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.

They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).

They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.

The UCL is in such small quatities that it will not affect the ron of the fuel, if you do notice a difference a little octane improver will do the trick.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

phil hill said:

Another oily question for you : Subaru Flat 6 3.3ltr 24v normally aspirated. No modifications, now over 90K miles. Advised service interval is 9000 miles, and has been running on various synthetics (recently Havoline & Mobil 1). Has the ususal Subaru minor leaks on the cam covers, but doesn't appear to burn any oil. What oil would you advise ?? What are you like on transmission fluid ?? The vehicle has an auto transmission which also contains the transfer gears. The front and centre diffs have separate oil supplies. The type of transmission (4eat) has a reputation for "cooking" it's fluid, although most owners have fitted auxilary coolers. The recommended fluid is Dexion III. I know nothing about transmission fluids, so this doesn't mean much to me. There is talk of synthetic transmission fluids, and other specific additives to reduce friction and improve shifts, although I think these fall into the "snake oil" catagory again. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts ??

Is this Subaru a Legacy or outback? and is it an import? I would stick with fully synthetic, around the 5w-40 grade, go for a PAO or PAO/Ester blend which will be good for 9000-12000 miles. The Mobil is a PAO. For the transmission I would recomend the Fuchs Titan ATF4000 which meets the Derxron III spec. Being a full synthetic it will have no problems dealing with the tems and loads.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

Phil,

An SVX Coupe, I would not have guessed, I must learn to look at peoples profiles. For all year round use it is recomended a 5w-40 full synthetic. I would suggest the Silkolene Pro S 5w-40 or the Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL 5w-40 as both of these are top quality PAO/Ester based synehtic.

For your vintage, sounds lovely and I have passed your details on to the Chief R&D Chemist for Silkolene, he really know is onions when it comes to vintage cars so I await his reeply.

[opieoilman]

Phil,

For your vintage, this is what has been recomended.

Use Chatsworth 40 for both break-in and normal use. If it’s been re-bored, use a bit of 2-stroke oil (0.5 to 1% Supertwo Injector) in the fuel for a while to avoid piston pick-up.

(Are the triple-electrode plugs Lodge CB3 18mm, by any chance? These are very forgiving; I’ve used them in the past in my S/V Matchless v-twin!)

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

Yep, 5w-40 is just fine and will give you better cold start protection.

Want to treat it?

Silkolene PRO S 5w-40 would be my best recommendation.

Cheers
Guy

[opieoilman]

Phil,

Looks lovely. When cars were cars.

[opieoilman]

Alpineandy said:

Hi, I've got a 1977 Renault Alpine A310 V6 with the 2.6litre PRV engine. It's got 60 odd K on the engine and I've been running it on cheap 20/50 (Castrol Merit last time I think) but have just had it serviced by an Alpine specialist (I was busy), who used 15/40. I've had a track day since which (together with the motorway thrash there and back) has left a serious oil film on the back of it. But it's not actually using much from the sump. Bearing in mind it's a loose 70s engine, Am I better sticking with 20/50 and changing every 3-5k or should I upgrade? Cheers

I like these cars very much. I have considered buying a GTA, in my local there is a guy with one in good nick and he does not want a bad price for it, rear engine, turbo, great noise, fun handling and Renault 25 running costs!

Back to the oil. The stock recomendation is for the 15w-40 mineral oil, but this is really due to what was freely available in the 70's. You could easily move to a 10w-40 semisynthetic or if you really wanted to treat it you could go for a 5w-40 full sy thetic, however with an older loose car you may wish to keep the oil slightly thicker so if track days and hard use are a factor than the 10w-50 full synthetic is the best option.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

yugguy said:

What about that ZX1 additive? It's supposed to be particle and ptfe free so it doesn't gunge up your oilways and to bond with metal surfaces

I have never been a fan of addatives no matter what they say it does. My reason for this is oil manufactures spend a lot of money in making their oils good enough not to warrant addatives, the only one which has any use in my opinion is for upper cylynder lubrication and even then instead of using an addative you are better off putting in a little two stroke oil in to the fuel.

The best thing to do is buy a really good oil as it will have everything needed contained within it.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

Yugguy said:

Cheers opieoilman. By a bizarre coincidence my name's Guy as well. But I don't know as much about oil as you... About oil, I have a 6 month old Clio 172, I changed the oil at 1200 miles and again at 6k (i will be changing it at every 6k) I use Magnatec semi-synth 10w40. I don't see the point necessarily of going to fully synth as I change it so often. Any thoughts on this? I know people recommend not going below 5w40 as it's too thin for the 172's engine. One thing I do know is that the engine sounded a hell of a lot quieter when I changed the oil at 1200 so god knows what the Elf oil that Renault put in must be made of.

Nice to see someone else with the same name, it feels good to be a superior being because of it!!!! I was going to be called Justin, then my sister went to school and announced mummy was going to give her a baby brother called Straightin and that was the end of that so Guy it was.

Back to the oil. The clio calls for a 10w-40 semisynthetic or a 5w-40 full synthetic. I would personally go for a full synthetic as the benefits are much greater than a semi. Plus you will get much better cold start protection from the 5w viscosity rating. Go and have a look in general gassing. I have posted something in there this morning about benfits of synhetics and extended oil drains. It is headed "do synthetics require a 3000 miles change".

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

aprisa said:

Running a Rover/Honda 2.7 V6 in a Kit car, engine is a non-cat 1988. Using 0-40 Mobil 1 at the moment but engine sounds a bit "thrashy" am currently building up another engine and making it look pretty! Any advice on a more suitable Oil? Thanks Nick

The 0w-40 is a little thin. I suggest a 5w-40 PAO/Ester full synehtic. This would help prevent it sounding thrashy and should hopefull make things sound smoother.

I have a good one available. E-mail me I will forward info and prices on to you.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

Nasta said:

Any help with the oil would be appreciated. Just having the engine stripped to find a very bad rattle. Possibly a timing chain tensioner. But since she is in pieces, i may as well put something good in. Make: Vauxhall Model: Carlton Year: 1993 Engine size and type: 2.6 dual ram Any significant modifications: None Brand and viscosity currently used (if known): Unknown and in bits Thanks in advance

For this one, I would go for a good quality semi synthetic of the 10w-40 grade. These semi synhetics do come a various qualities, so dont put in a budget one, source a good one as it wont be much more expensive.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

MGBV8 said:

What are advantages of semi?

Semi syntetics are usually a blend of mineral and syntetic or they are hydrocracked mineral oils. The advantage is in cost, they provide much better protection than a mineral in terms of the addative packs used and shear stability for not much more £££ than a mineral.

So if you did not want to spend the money on a full synthetic go for a semi. It will be nowhere near as good as a true Synthetic but will cost less and be much better than a mineral.

Middle ground if you like.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

Yugguy said:

Reading your posts is interesting. I'd always understood that the problem with all oils was eventually the long-chain molecules that they are made of and that provide protection to the metal break down into little pieces and no longer lubricate correctly. So do synths not have this problem?

The manner in which petroleum and synthetic oils burn off is important. As a refined product, petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up.

Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape.
Even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Moreover, synthetics contain far fewer contaminants than petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces. Obviously, this leads to a cleaner burning, more fuel efficient engine.
It is also important to note that synthetics do a much better job of "cooling" engine components during operation. Because of their unique flow characteristics, engine components are likely to run 10 to 30 degrees cooler than with petroleum oils. This is important, because the hotter the components in your engine get, the more quickly they break down.

It is kind of like egg boxes. Imagine lots of egg boxes stacked into one an other, this would be the synetitc and then try to sheer them apart, it is difficult because they fit. With petrolium oils because the molecules are not uniform imagine your egg boxes have lots of different size egg holes, stack those boxes on top of each other and see how stable they are.

I hope this answeres your question.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

mawds said:

Fascinating reading, as ever - now time to ask for myself...(sorry, it's an old one again) Engine: 1558 lotus twin-cam (1967 series 1 lotus-cortina model originally), unleaded conversion (hence slightly oversized valves), cams, fully rebuilt earlier this year, heads skimmed - 154hp at the wheels on rolling road. odd drip after a long run on valvoline racing 15W-50 - EATS oil (no smoke or anything obvious like that) tips?

I would suggest you try the Silkolene Pro R 15w-50. The Valvoline may be dripping after a long run due to the oil heating up to a point where it is beggining to thin after prolonged use. The Silkolene Pro R is very shear and thermally stable.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

timbrown said:

if this thread is still active ..... 3 questions in 1 I'd appreciate your comments on using ( decent quality ) motorbike oils in car engines. I hava theory that because the bike oil needs a greater shear resistance ( or something like that ) because it has to survive not only the engine but the gearbox, that it would be fine, but I'm prepared to be told different. Also, your recommendations for Alfa 147GTA, and a Smart Roadster Brabus would be very much appreciated. cheers

Top quality bike oils contain ester, this is what helps with the load on the gears, you can get 4wheel oil also that contains ester. The other addative is is to allow the clutch to grip, this is not nessasary in 4wheel cars.

You can use it in a car but you are better of getting a top quality ester based 4wheel oil. You cant use 4wheel oil in a bike.

Both the Alfa and the Smart call for the same oil. You are looking for a 5w-40 full synthetic to the spec of ACEA A3. Stick with a brand as opposed to home brands as they tend to be made to a cost.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

GarryM said:

Excellent posts Guy - thanks for spending the time. I have noted your comments about the Griff 500 engine but my query relates to my family car - no doubt very uncool to admit owning a Zafira 2.0 turbo (petrol), but there, done it. What would you recommend? I believe it started its life on a Vauxhall semi-synthetic (don't know the grade) but I have no problem spending a little more on a full synthetic when the oil is changed at its first service. The dealership would normally fill with semi again.

The Zafira calls for a 10w-40 semi or a 5w-40 full synthetic for all year round use. The semi used by vauxhall is made for them, it is ok but made to a cost so much better is readily available. If you want to change to a full synthetic stick with a brand name.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

timbrown said:

thanks guy, it looks like the Shell helix ultra fully synth 5w40 I've got is the right choice. Alfa recommend a synth 10w60, any obvious reasons why they might do that ? ( if it's not too much trouble ) and no, I never put car oil in the bike, that's a no-no. thanks again

Alfas recomendation for this is the higher temps abroad, in this country we need lower viscosity oil due to our ambient temp.

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

MGBV8 said:

Shell and Castrol tend to use the GroupIII basestock ie not true syn, unless made in Germany?- sure Guy can add some detail on merits of different basestocks.

I will have a go, In germany it is a labeling issue. All oils produced in Germany by law have to state what it is. PAO/Ester MC/HC and so on.


“HYDROCRACKED” (HC) or MOLECULARLY CONVERTED (MC) BASESTOCKS

There are many petroleum oils available on the market that are so pure and refined, they can now be passed off as synthetics.
They are not made from true synthetic basestocks (at least not in the way that synthetics have traditionally been defined), but they have so little in common with traditional petroleum basestocks, it is really somewhat silly to classify them as petroleum oils.
Petroleum oil basestocks can be put through a super-extreme refining process called “hydrocracking”. In some cases, as in the case of one particular name-brand "synthetic" oil, these highly refined petroleum basestocks can actually be termed and sold as "synthetic".
It is completely legal for lubricants manufacturers to label these oils as "synthetic".

These are extremely high performance petroleum basestocks, but they are not truly synthetic the way that most people understand the term and will not necessarily perform to the same level as a premium synthetic oil like PAO (poly alfa olefins) or Esters.

Hydrocracking involves changing the actual structure of many of the oil basestock molecules by breaking and fragmenting different molecular structures into far more stable ones. This results in a basestock which has far better thermal and oxidative stability as well as a better ability to maintain proper viscosity through a wide temperature range - when compared to a typical petroleum basestock.

Although contaminants are still present, and these are still petroleum basestocks, contamination is minimal and performance characteristics are high. This process also can turn a wider range of crude oil stock into well-performing petroleum lubricant basestocks.

TYPES OF SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS

Synthetic basestocks are not all the same. There are few different chemical types that may be used as synthetic basestock fluids. There are only three that are seen commonly in automotive applications:

Polyalphaolefins (PAO's)
These are the most common synthetic basestocks used in the US and in Europe. In fact, many synthetics on the market use PAO basestocks exclusively. PAO's are also called synthesized hydrocarbons and contain absolutely no wax, metals, sulfur or phosphorous. Viscosity indexes for nearly all PAO's are around 150, and they have extremely low pour points (normally below –40 degrees F). Although PAO's are also very thermally stable, there are a couple of drawbacks to using PAO basestocks. One drawback to using PAO's is that they are not as oxidatively stable as other synthetics. But, when properly additized, oxidative stability can be achieved.

Diesters
These synthetic basestocks offer many of the same benefits of PAO's but are more varied in structure. Therefore, their performance characteristics vary more than PAO's do. Nevertheless, if chosen carefully, diesters generally provide better pour points than PAO's (about -60 to -80 degrees F) and are a little more oxidatively stable when properly additized.
Diesters also have very good inherent solvency characteristics which means that not only do they burn cleanly, they also clean out deposits left behind by other lubricants - even without the aid of detergency additives.
They do have one extra benefit though, they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), PAO’s are not “polar”, they are “inert”.

Polyolesters
Similar to diesters, but slightly more complex. Greater range of pour points and viscosity indexes than diesters, but some polyolester basestocks will outperform diesters with pour points as low as -90 degrees F and viscosity indexes as high as 160 (without VI additive improvers). They are also “polar”.

Other synthetic basestocks exist but are not nearly as widely used as those above - especially in automotive type applications. Most synthetics on the market will use a single PAO basestock combined with an adequate additive package to provide a medium quality synthetic lubricant. However, PAO basestocks are not all the same. Their final lubricating characteristics depend on the chemical reactions used to create them.

Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.

This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they don't come cheap. You get what you pay for! Or do you?

Cheers

Guy.

[opieoilman]

900T-R said:

Classic Saab 900 Turbo (1985) Engine: 1991 900 block; forged Cosworth pistons, oil cooling jets, crank and rods shotpeened; rotating assembly weighted & balanced; 4,600 kms after build Head: 2000ish 9-5; gasflowed; bigger valves; 2,000 kms after installation Turbo: upgraded Garrett T03; watercooled bearing housing; 360 degree thrust bearing Ran competition running-in oil for first 2 hrs; then 10 or 15W40 Valvoline mineral for first 1.500 kms; then Valvoline Synpower 'fully synthetic' (er, hydrocrack base oil) 5W50 'Weekend' car for road and occasional track use; runs 1.3ish bar (more like 1.26) max boost, output 281 hp @6,000 rpm. Rev limit 7,000.

That sounds like quite a Saab you have yourself there, my brother in law is into his Saabs, he has a 99Turbo.

For yours I would suggest a top quality synthetic only as you will want to protect all those mods you have done. Look at a PAO or Ester based synthetic around the 5w-40 or 10w-50 grade.

The 5w-50 you are using sounds to be an ideal grade however a lot of manufaturers are phasing this out. The reason for this is the amount of VI improver needed to keep the oil in grade throught its viscosity range. The less VI improver in an oil the better.

For the gearbox it is only allowed to use mineral oil, infact it uses engine mineral oil of around the 10w-40 grade, strange but true.

Hope this helps.

Guy.