Discussion
The pukka method is to transesterify it with methanol under alkaline conditions (ie. with caustic soda in). To go all the way, you get the methanol from destructive distillation of the plant waste, burn the other stuff to provide heat for the process, then use the waste heat to heat your house.
Having worked on heavy plant for several years, i saw the 10,000 gallon tank being filled quite a bit !!
Our supplier used to fill the tank and then add the dye afterwards.
He was a VERY nice man and ran my cavalier TD for 5 years on the pipe dregs
When the contract finished i simply used kerosene with a 10w hydralic oil mix.
I sold the car o a friend and it has now done 260k+
Our supplier used to fill the tank and then add the dye afterwards.
He was a VERY nice man and ran my cavalier TD for 5 years on the pipe dregs
When the contract finished i simply used kerosene with a 10w hydralic oil mix.
I sold the car o a friend and it has now done 260k+
love machine said:
Ok, here's one. I bought some Kerosene for a massive flame thrower and noticed that it is a lairy yellow colour. Would I be right in thinking Kerosene also has a trace dye. I will whack some conc HCl in and see what it does. I will ask my customs man....
My mate used to run his car on kerosene and for every 25 liters he used to put oil in it, i think about 1/4 liter, ran it for years however when he came to pick me up every fri night it used to smell like birmingham airport
Red is nice stuff to run, I'm quite sure the sulphur content can be better for the exhaust gas temps. I had a noticeable increase in pickup on my ikkle boost gauge in my Tdi 405 doing it.
Reason I ran a tank full was that I stupidly filled my car with petrol (was NOT paying any attention, and was confused too
). Got a few miles up the A1 and then ooohhh.
So, stopped, hmmm, 45 quids worth of TAXED petrol, mixed with diesel.
So, got a 1 gallon petrol drum thing, and piped it in under the bonnet, and drove home.
Since the recirculator sends about 1/5th of the fuel back to the tank under normal driving, nearly 2 gallons of more TAXED diesel went in the tank.
So, by the time I got home to drain it, I had about 3 gallons of diesel with lots of petrol, all taxed.
Couldn't be used for anything like a petrol car, and wouldn't run in a petrol. So, I swapped the lot for a tank of red.
I guessed I'd paid enough tax on fuel already, and wasn't going to pay more tax for new fuel when I wasn't actually using the old stuff on the road!
Anyway, used it all, and went back to white, and the turbo just seemed lathargic till a few hundred rpm's more than before!
I think that if farmers buy it and run in huge £300,000 combines that rev their balls off all day up and down fields in the red hot summer sun, then it must be good stuff.
You get some right dregs from the bottom of petrol station tanks when they are empty!
Hmmmm
Dave
Reason I ran a tank full was that I stupidly filled my car with petrol (was NOT paying any attention, and was confused too
). Got a few miles up the A1 and then ooohhh. So, stopped, hmmm, 45 quids worth of TAXED petrol, mixed with diesel.
So, got a 1 gallon petrol drum thing, and piped it in under the bonnet, and drove home.
Since the recirculator sends about 1/5th of the fuel back to the tank under normal driving, nearly 2 gallons of more TAXED diesel went in the tank.
So, by the time I got home to drain it, I had about 3 gallons of diesel with lots of petrol, all taxed.
Couldn't be used for anything like a petrol car, and wouldn't run in a petrol. So, I swapped the lot for a tank of red.
I guessed I'd paid enough tax on fuel already, and wasn't going to pay more tax for new fuel when I wasn't actually using the old stuff on the road!
Anyway, used it all, and went back to white, and the turbo just seemed lathargic till a few hundred rpm's more than before!
I think that if farmers buy it and run in huge £300,000 combines that rev their balls off all day up and down fields in the red hot summer sun, then it must be good stuff.
You get some right dregs from the bottom of petrol station tanks when they are empty!
Hmmmm
Dave
Guys,
Its been some time since I sold fuel for two of the biggest oil companies in the world but I think I'm right when I tell you that:-
1. Diesel is the same as Kerosene.
2. Kerosene is the same as Aircraft Fuel ( jet engines only....not piston engines).
3. Kerosene is the same as Central Heating Oil.
4. It is legal have a large tank for your oil fired central heating.
5. Central Heating Oil has no dye in it.
6. Neither has vegetable cooking oil from Aldi's.
7. Mixing a litre of white spirit with a 60 litre tankful of vegetable oil makes your chips taste funny.
" Power to the people"............
Cheers,
Tony
Its been some time since I sold fuel for two of the biggest oil companies in the world but I think I'm right when I tell you that:-
1. Diesel is the same as Kerosene.
2. Kerosene is the same as Aircraft Fuel ( jet engines only....not piston engines).
3. Kerosene is the same as Central Heating Oil.
4. It is legal have a large tank for your oil fired central heating.
5. Central Heating Oil has no dye in it.
6. Neither has vegetable cooking oil from Aldi's.
7. Mixing a litre of white spirit with a 60 litre tankful of vegetable oil makes your chips taste funny.
" Power to the people"............
Cheers,
Tony
Tony427 said:
1. Diesel is the same as Kerosene.
I'm sure it isn't - Kerosene is a slightly lighter fraction the Diesel. I remember this from A level chemistry, so it may be wrong
But my parents also had a diesel boiler, and kerosene was different stuff (switched to running it on kerosene when the pump started to struggle with diesel)...
While I am not sure what they mean, red is 28 sec fuel, while heating oil is 35 sec.
So there must be some difference between the two.
Tony, are you implying that a diesel car will run perfectly, with absolutely no long term side effects on heating oil, with no additives whatsoever ?
So there must be some difference between the two.
Tony, are you implying that a diesel car will run perfectly, with absolutely no long term side effects on heating oil, with no additives whatsoever ?
Well i was talking to the bloke round the corner from us today on the subject and 
he runs his landrover on vegtable oil, he said he has been doing it for years but when the weather gets a little cold he puts something else in with it, he did say but in one ear out the other, but the most interesting part of the conversation was the 
s pulled him last week and they said you are running this on illegal fuel and he said its not illegal officer and showed him the recipt asda and said look i have payed the VAT 
and they said 
on your way sir,
it looks to me their is some loop hole out their however i would not fancie running a new car on it but a knaker
he runs his landrover on vegtable oil, he said he has been doing it for years but when the weather gets a little cold he puts something else in with it, he did say but in one ear out the other, but the most interesting part of the conversation was the s pulled him last week and they said you are running this on illegal fuel and he said its not illegal officer and showed him the recipt asda and said look i have payed the VAT and they said on your way sir, it looks to me their is some loop hole out their however i would not fancie running a new car on it but a knaker
VAT is one thing, but any fuel for use in a road vehicle has extra duty charged on it.
Hell, if we only paid 17.5% duty, then fuel would be about 80% cheaper than it is at present.
Any fuel used for the road must have the appropriate duty paid. This varies for types of fuel. eg Diesel or LPG, or indeed Biodiesel.
one apparent loophole is that some veggy oil, sold for food purposes only is not liable to duty.
But I think your friend was just lucky, and the cop didnt know any better. If it was a customs officer, I dont think he would have got away so easy.
Hell, if we only paid 17.5% duty, then fuel would be about 80% cheaper than it is at present.
Any fuel used for the road must have the appropriate duty paid. This varies for types of fuel. eg Diesel or LPG, or indeed Biodiesel.
one apparent loophole is that some veggy oil, sold for food purposes only is not liable to duty.
But I think your friend was just lucky, and the cop didnt know any better. If it was a customs officer, I dont think he would have got away so easy.
stevieturbo your probably right, but it aint gonna stop him fair play to him and many others who do this,as the goverment do a good job in ripping us off too often in taxes for this and taxes for that.
Changin the subject slightly as a better way of slightly economising on the fuel subject i once ran a petrol van converted to gas which is quite cheep, it was even cheaper to use the half size propane bottles and pipe it into the main line y pice and through a gas regulator!!
Changin the subject slightly as a better way of slightly economising on the fuel subject i once ran a petrol van converted to gas which is quite cheep, it was even cheaper to use the half size propane bottles and pipe it into the main line y pice and through a gas regulator!!
Again, while I totally agree on any method to reduce motoring costs, your Propane method still faces the same laws.
By using propane bottles as your fuel supply, you are avoiding paying the appropriate fuel duty, and could get into trouble.
Of course, it is much harder for anyone to find out about that, than it is with conventional liquid fuels.
Duty on Propane/LPG isnt that much I think anyway.
By using propane bottles as your fuel supply, you are avoiding paying the appropriate fuel duty, and could get into trouble.
Of course, it is much harder for anyone to find out about that, than it is with conventional liquid fuels.
Duty on Propane/LPG isnt that much I think anyway.
Stevieturbo,
Let me inform you how the fuel distribution system in the UK works.
Around the coast there are number of refineries each one controlled by a major oil company. These refineries are linked either by underground pipeline or by rail to a number of inland fuel distribution depots which are in turn owned by other oil companies. Every oil company shares the pipeline, rail distribution and inland distribution centre of its fellow oil company in a type of reciprocal agreement. For example BP supplies the whole of Scotland with its fuel, which is then sold in every other oil company branded site. In return BP can service its own branded sites in England and Wales with fuels from depots owned by Esso, Texaco, Total etc.
The pipeline consists of one large bore pipe through which each grade of fuel is pumped by the million of gallons, and when say the u/l tanks are full in the distribution system, kerosene is then pumped along the pipe. At the point when the changeover is made there is a large chunk of fuel which is a mixture of U/L and kerosene being pumped through a pipe into a settlement tank in the distribution centre where the mixture is allowed to settle and the specific gravities of each fuel allows the fuel to be seperated by gravity and filtered off.
Now, say instead of having normal unleaded, super unleaded , and kerosene fuels going through the pipes we add an additional fuels such as Derv, heating oil, aviation fuel, heavy heating oil, paraffin etc etc you can see how complex the task of seperating each fuel would be when they each share the same pipeline. Instead of having 3 fuels going through the pipe we have 8 or more..............
This is to say nothing of the problems caused when the MOD pull off afew thousand gallons from the pipeline up the side A1 and find that they have central heating oil instead of aviation fuel. Surely Harriers cant fly on central heating oil...........I bet can and they do !!
Most of what oil companies tell us consumers is marketing bo--ocks. ( I know I used to write and preach it) Just dont get me started on Optimax and the like...........
Cheers,
Tony
>> Edited by Tony427 on Friday 5th November 22:48
Let me inform you how the fuel distribution system in the UK works.
Around the coast there are number of refineries each one controlled by a major oil company. These refineries are linked either by underground pipeline or by rail to a number of inland fuel distribution depots which are in turn owned by other oil companies. Every oil company shares the pipeline, rail distribution and inland distribution centre of its fellow oil company in a type of reciprocal agreement. For example BP supplies the whole of Scotland with its fuel, which is then sold in every other oil company branded site. In return BP can service its own branded sites in England and Wales with fuels from depots owned by Esso, Texaco, Total etc.
The pipeline consists of one large bore pipe through which each grade of fuel is pumped by the million of gallons, and when say the u/l tanks are full in the distribution system, kerosene is then pumped along the pipe. At the point when the changeover is made there is a large chunk of fuel which is a mixture of U/L and kerosene being pumped through a pipe into a settlement tank in the distribution centre where the mixture is allowed to settle and the specific gravities of each fuel allows the fuel to be seperated by gravity and filtered off.
Now, say instead of having normal unleaded, super unleaded , and kerosene fuels going through the pipes we add an additional fuels such as Derv, heating oil, aviation fuel, heavy heating oil, paraffin etc etc you can see how complex the task of seperating each fuel would be when they each share the same pipeline. Instead of having 3 fuels going through the pipe we have 8 or more..............
This is to say nothing of the problems caused when the MOD pull off afew thousand gallons from the pipeline up the side A1 and find that they have central heating oil instead of aviation fuel. Surely Harriers cant fly on central heating oil...........I bet can and they do !!
Most of what oil companies tell us consumers is marketing bo--ocks. ( I know I used to write and preach it) Just dont get me started on Optimax and the like...........
Cheers,
Tony
>> Edited by Tony427 on Friday 5th November 22:48
This is actually a very interesting thread.......
But as I really dont know that much about the various fuels, it does make believing you difficult, despite what you are saying making a lot of sense.
So you are pretty much saying, that Kerosene, Heating oil, Paraffin, and DERV are the same fuel. No difference whatsoever ?
And do tell about Optimax....We dont even get it here in Northern Ireland anyway, with only SUL being available, from what very few Shell stations there are left.
So back to the diesel topic. It is beginning to sound like, that it is quite fine to run a diesel engine, on home heating oil, with no bad side effects, either short term, or long term ?
What does the 35sec and 28 sec or indeed 32sec for Paraffin actually refer to then ??
But as I really dont know that much about the various fuels, it does make believing you difficult, despite what you are saying making a lot of sense.
So you are pretty much saying, that Kerosene, Heating oil, Paraffin, and DERV are the same fuel. No difference whatsoever ?
And do tell about Optimax....We dont even get it here in Northern Ireland anyway, with only SUL being available, from what very few Shell stations there are left.
So back to the diesel topic. It is beginning to sound like, that it is quite fine to run a diesel engine, on home heating oil, with no bad side effects, either short term, or long term ?
What does the 35sec and 28 sec or indeed 32sec for Paraffin actually refer to then ??
stevieturbo said:
While I am not sure what they mean, red is 28 sec fuel, while heating oil is 35 sec.
So there must be some difference between the two.
Tony, are you implying that a diesel car will run perfectly, with absolutely no long term side effects on heating oil, with no additives whatsoever ?
This refers to the speed of a known weight steel ball falling through the said oil,1000mm deep.No you can't run anything above 30sec oil in a normal diesel engine.You can but it'll smoke like a chimney burning rubber,hence why most pikey transits all smoke so bad!!
You can thin it with various things that will allow it burn clean but it makes it as expensive as normal derv.....move country, vote the dick heads out or don't get caught running red.
(living and farming in NZ at 82cents a litre(28 of your british pennies)
Guys,
Don't just take my word for it. Drop into www.texaco-online.co.uk and take a look at their product descriptions for commercial and agricultural fuels.
Firstly they list Texaco Diesel as a road fuel.
Then they list Kerosene as a domestic heating fuel, which as we all know is also aviation fuel, ( if in doubt do a google search on aviation fuel).
Then they list Texaco Gas oil which is, we are told, for use as a domestic heating oil and an off road fuel as it is dyed red.
So Texaco themselves are saying that Red Diesel, Kerosene, normal Diesel and Gas Oil can all be used for the same purposes.
One last thing to remember , the red dye is put into the fuel at the Distribution Centre, until the red dye is put into the fuel, the poor fuel doesnt know if its jet fuel, central heating oil, gas oil, kerosene or road diesel............
Cheers,
Tony
Still want to know about Optimax?
Don't just take my word for it. Drop into www.texaco-online.co.uk and take a look at their product descriptions for commercial and agricultural fuels.
Firstly they list Texaco Diesel as a road fuel.
Then they list Kerosene as a domestic heating fuel, which as we all know is also aviation fuel, ( if in doubt do a google search on aviation fuel).
Then they list Texaco Gas oil which is, we are told, for use as a domestic heating oil and an off road fuel as it is dyed red.
So Texaco themselves are saying that Red Diesel, Kerosene, normal Diesel and Gas Oil can all be used for the same purposes.
One last thing to remember , the red dye is put into the fuel at the Distribution Centre, until the red dye is put into the fuel, the poor fuel doesnt know if its jet fuel, central heating oil, gas oil, kerosene or road diesel............
Cheers,
Tony
Still want to know about Optimax?
Tony427 said:
So Texaco themselves are saying that Red Diesel, Kerosene, normal Diesel and Gas Oil can all be used for the same purposes
No they're not! They're saying that:
- Kerosene is a fuel for boilers and heating appliances
- Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel is a fuel for medium and high speed diesels
- Gas Oil can be used either as a heating fuel or an off-road diesel fuel.
Gas Oil is basically a more technically correct name for diesel fuel. It's what all the diesel textbooks call the range of fractions used for the fuel. It is notable that Texaco point out that it has been dyed red to indicate that it's not tax-paid road diesel.
Heating oil that is just sold as heating oil (ie. not as diesel fuel as well) is a slightly heavier range of fractions, and it wouldn't need dyeing because it is brown and smells different. I would expect its effect on a normal road diesel to be slightly reduced power and increased black smoke at full revs/throttle due to its lower volatility reducing its ability to be vaporised rapidly on injection. (Huge slow-revving diesels, however, can run on oil so thick as to be more of a sludge than an oil.)
Kerosene is a slightly lighter range of fractions, slightly more volatile and carrying the risk of engine damage because it burns too fast and causes too much of a shock loading, much like using too low an octane rating can damage a petrol engine. Kerosene can be used as a fuel for spark-ignition engines but generally needs some help to vaporise so some form of preheater is used, or it can be used mixed with petrol with some power loss.
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