Fiesta 1.25 Zetec? Rough idle & thirsty
Discussion
Hooli said:
Update.
The car came back from the garage today & appears sorted
Cheers for all the ideas & stuff guys, seemed you diagnosed it right
Good news The car came back from the garage today & appears sorted
Cheers for all the ideas & stuff guys, seemed you diagnosed it right
Glad it's sorted.Stuff like this makes me feel sorry for the genuine garages out there who do a good job for a fair price, and who constantly have to battle with the customer perceptions of shoddy workmanship and/or rip off prices that only get stronger and louder with every example of this kind of incompetence.
We encountered evidence of poor workmanship from an Alfa "specialist" who had charged the previous owner of our 156 £450 to change the cambelt. The Busso V6 uses a similar process of keyless sprockets, albeit with the cams timed using jigs that fit over the cam lobes rather than slots and plates in the tail. However, as with the Zetec, the belt should be tensioned with the cam sprockets loose, so they can rotate as the tensioner bears on the belt, and the tension gets applied evenly across the whole belt. More critical on this engine too, as one belt drives all four camshafts.
This is the horror story we discovered when we got to the crank pulley. The belt tension was untouched at this point, and this was how the engine had been running:
Combined with the (unnecesary if done correctly) paint markings on the sprockets, the belt had clearly been tensioned without the sprocket tapers being broken. The result was a belt drum tight on the tensioner (left) side of the crank pulley, and literally flapping in the breeze on the other. They also hadn't replaced one of the idlers which was different to the other two, and seized in place. Cowboys.
Edited by Limpet on Monday 22 July 11:28
Edited by Limpet on Monday 22 July 12:01
Limpet said:
Combined with the (unnecesary if done correctly) paint markings on the sprockets, the belt had clearly been tensioned without the sprocket tapers being broken. The result was a belt drum tight on the tensioner (left) side of the crank pulley, and literally flapping in the breeze on the other. They also hadn't replaced one of the idlers which was different to the other two, and seized in place. Cowboys.
Cowboys indeed. My Fiat Coupe used a similar system of locking caps to time the cams in, and the whole process is beautifully simple (apart from the non-existent access!) when you understand why it's been done like that. Unfortunately, the average knuckle dragging baboon doesn't possess the intelligence to understand why locking tool are required and why painting marks on the pulleys is not equivalent .
Guess what? I'm going to get a chance to do this myself now.
A couple of weeks ago the car dropped to running on two cylinders. We took it back to the decent garage who diagnosed low compression on a couple of cylinders (I forget which). Unfortunately we can't afford the £800 (well just under) quoted to take it apart & replace all the valves as they think it's burnt a few out. That makes sense to me after how lean it was running when we got it back off Bob the knuckledragger originally.
I've started taking it apart myself today, had to come in when the dry sunny day turned into a hail storm. Got halfway in, but having issues getting to the exhaust manifold. The heatshield bolts seem seized & I can't see how else I can get in to removing the manifold without snapping the little bolts off. I will be reading the manual that got linked to in this thread for inspiration but ideas are welcome.
I can see the engine mount needs to come off the side of the head. Will I need to support the engine for this are there enough other mounts on it? I expect the former, but the latter would be good as I'm working in the road & don't want to leave a jack under it to get nicked.
A couple of weeks ago the car dropped to running on two cylinders. We took it back to the decent garage who diagnosed low compression on a couple of cylinders (I forget which). Unfortunately we can't afford the £800 (well just under) quoted to take it apart & replace all the valves as they think it's burnt a few out. That makes sense to me after how lean it was running when we got it back off Bob the knuckledragger originally.
I've started taking it apart myself today, had to come in when the dry sunny day turned into a hail storm. Got halfway in, but having issues getting to the exhaust manifold. The heatshield bolts seem seized & I can't see how else I can get in to removing the manifold without snapping the little bolts off. I will be reading the manual that got linked to in this thread for inspiration but ideas are welcome.
I can see the engine mount needs to come off the side of the head. Will I need to support the engine for this are there enough other mounts on it? I expect the former, but the latter would be good as I'm working in the road & don't want to leave a jack under it to get nicked.
Would someone mine confirming this is the right locking tool for this car? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus-Fiesta-Mondeo... I think it is, but having never seen them it's nice to hear it confirmed.
I got the car slightly wrong in the OP, it's an '08 plate 1.25ltr. But it is the older shape so upto '08.
I got the car slightly wrong in the OP, it's an '08 plate 1.25ltr. But it is the older shape so upto '08.
That's the correct tools for the job, though you can get a cheaper set. You only need the smaller locking pin, the larger pin is for the 2.0 engine I think.
DrDeAtH said:
Why not leave the manifold on until you get the head off of the car and onto the bench...
Can't. The way it all fits together you have to take the manifold studs out to remove the head. Because it links directly to the cat, which is bolted to the block, there isn't any play in the system or other way to disconnect it.Got the head on the bench now & one of the exhaust valves has a bit missing off the lip, I'll drop all the valves out tomorrow or tues & see if there is any other damage. Plus I'll have to check the bore to see if the bit of valve that came off damaged it.
Update:
All the valves are out. I've got one exhaust valve with a chunk missing & on the same cylinder an inlet valve has a couple of shallow dents on the bit that seals to the seat. All I can see on any other cylinders is some slight discolouring on the seat of a few inlet valves.
The garage who compression tested it said it was down slightly on a few pots, so would it make sense the discoloured seats are from slight blow by due to the buckets being slightly too thick? (I've seen the sizes on them so I know you swap buckets to get the clearances right).
Do you all think that one pot with a broken valve could cause it to sound like it was misfiring on more than one? I'm wondering if the massive blow by from that could upset the O2 sensor so the next pot gets leaned out?
I'll put some pics up after eating to receive your wisdom
All the valves are out. I've got one exhaust valve with a chunk missing & on the same cylinder an inlet valve has a couple of shallow dents on the bit that seals to the seat. All I can see on any other cylinders is some slight discolouring on the seat of a few inlet valves.
The garage who compression tested it said it was down slightly on a few pots, so would it make sense the discoloured seats are from slight blow by due to the buckets being slightly too thick? (I've seen the sizes on them so I know you swap buckets to get the clearances right).
Do you all think that one pot with a broken valve could cause it to sound like it was misfiring on more than one? I'm wondering if the massive blow by from that could upset the O2 sensor so the next pot gets leaned out?
I'll put some pics up after eating to receive your wisdom
Hooli said:
Do you all think that one pot with a broken valve could cause it to sound like it was misfiring on more than one? I'm wondering if the massive blow by from that could upset the O2 sensor so the next pot gets leaned out?
Yes, compression leaking from one cylinder could certainly be enough to upset the fueling.Pics as promised...
I'm searching ebay for bits now. Seems the fool who did the job for us didn't even buy enough gaskets so bits were stuck on the head with just liquid gasket. Can someone explain when to replace the head bolts? They look ok, but do they stretch? I can't find a service length anywhere to check them. Annoyingly I can order just the head gasket & bolts or a head set without bolts. I know I don't need a lot of the bits in the full set, but it might end up cheaper that way.
I'm undecided on how many valves to replace too. Obviously the broken one, but will the one with little dents polish out with grinding? I'm doubtful myself as I think it'd take too much metal out which'd mean buying new buckets etc (not found these on ebay yet, Ford only?). Got to try a few others sites as well.
I'm searching ebay for bits now. Seems the fool who did the job for us didn't even buy enough gaskets so bits were stuck on the head with just liquid gasket. Can someone explain when to replace the head bolts? They look ok, but do they stretch? I can't find a service length anywhere to check them. Annoyingly I can order just the head gasket & bolts or a head set without bolts. I know I don't need a lot of the bits in the full set, but it might end up cheaper that way.
I'm undecided on how many valves to replace too. Obviously the broken one, but will the one with little dents polish out with grinding? I'm doubtful myself as I think it'd take too much metal out which'd mean buying new buckets etc (not found these on ebay yet, Ford only?). Got to try a few others sites as well.
Mr2Mike said:
Hooli said:
Do you all think that one pot with a broken valve could cause it to sound like it was misfiring on more than one? I'm wondering if the massive blow by from that could upset the O2 sensor so the next pot gets leaned out?
Yes, compression leaking from one cylinder could certainly be enough to upset the fueling.Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff