electric superchargers

[350Matt]

Chaps

looks like these have finally come of age
http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/index.html

[anonymous-user]

wow, really making the most of that compressor aren't they:

[anonymous-user]

Gosh, a whole 1.5psi of boost at just under 6000rpm. Stonking. er, not!

They have just taken some Radio controller aircraft brushless motors and controller and attached them to a compressor wheel. Not exactly difficult, but not exactly going to do a lot either really.

[350Matt]

I think he's doing himself a disservice with that pressure map, as the dyno results would seem to offer a lot more than this

there was an article in MTZ back in December about a similar device that also offered a similar level of promise but wasn't commercially available at the time

this phantom item ( unfortunate choice of name I'd say) looks like its delvering some tangible results

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39...



this looks to be a proper bit of kit unlike the Ebay cr@p thats touted

also I'd agree that 1.5 psi of boost at 6K engine rpm isn't much but 5 psi at 2K rpm is a reasonable amount and this is reflected in the dyno results

as its takes about 30 minutes to fit to a car I feel its worth investigating further

there's another one here:

http://theboosthead.blogspot.co.uk/

Edited by 350Matt on Friday 30th August 16:18

Edited by 350Matt on Friday 30th August 16:18

Edited by 350Matt on Friday 30th August 16:25

[anonymous-user]

Well, considering the compressor wheel is directly attached to the motor without any kind of gearing, plotting the motors peak speed line across the compressors characteristic is pretty much exactly what you're going to get. (well, except for the fact the motor can't do peak speed at full load, as the voltage sag from the batteries will take on a significant effect...

A 3 to 4 kW system (which he claims to have, but no data to back it up) certainly is enough for doing some "fill in" stuff at low engine speeds. But it's an expensive option, considering you could just buy another turbo for that kind of money......


Also, looking at those maps, his operating line completely fails to get 'onto the island' when it comes to peak compressor efficiency, so charge temps aren't going to be great

[350Matt]

Thats a valid point but this thing can be fitted in 20 minutes with basic tools

you can't say that of a turbo conversion

plus it may be $1600 but thats still $2000 cheaper than a full fat turbo conversion

[jas xjr]

have a look at the roadkill video on youtube . electric leafblower supercharging

[packman10_4]

Just like to add my 2p worth ....

I tested these when they first apeared well over 10 years ago now. I use to do some "new" product testing for REV,s magazine on our dyno , exhausts , air filters , camshafts ect ect you get the drift ....

If i can remember we used a 16v saxo for the test. If you look at the size of the wire it uses you can gess the currant draw from the battery thus the alternator has to work a lot harder.

All i can say id dont waste your money ..... nuff said !

[350Matt]

I think you're missing the point

the power to drive the charger comes from an additional battery which is charged up when the unit is not working, so you're not robbing
Peter to pay Paul here




this a power at the wheels dyno plot showing the before and after

Edited by 350Matt on Monday 2nd September 09:51

[350Matt]

Now now

the extra battery is charged from the alternator when the unit isn't running
so when you're on full throttle the charger is drawing power from the battery, when you're off full throttle the battery is being topped back up

So you're not charging the supplementary battery and costing power when you're using the boost - hence the comments about it being like re-fillable nitrous

it doesn't involve the main vehicle battery at any point

[Snake the Sniper]

But since there will an additional draw on the alt when the unit's not operating it will still cost you overall due to it not being 100% efficient. OK you will either get the power gain or the alt draw and not both at the same time, but it will still be there.

Oh, and if that little blower can fill in that torque gap in the power gap at 3,000-5,000 RPM all on it's own I'll be amazed. 70lb/ft+ just from that? No way.

[one eyed mick]

OK I'm old school but 1600 £or$ you can have a ported cyl head which would give the same power gains with out extra electrics and wieght my ops only

[otolith]

I'm sceptical that this would be much use on track, because I don't think there would be enough time off WOT to recharge it. If it works as well as that link claims it does, though, it would be perfect for traffic light heroes who run down anything that won't beat a hot hatch from the lights and for normal people who want a chunk more go for overtaking or punch out of corners before backing off to a copper-friendly maximum speed.

[otolith]

doogz said:

Indeed, and the alternator is attached, by a belt, to what?

Do you think that charging the battery is 'free'? You're not 'costing power' when you're using it. You're 'costing power' (whatever that means) when you're not using it.

I don't think it's meant to improve engine efficiency or to be a too good to be true energy-for-nothing job - it's just a supercharger which defers the parasitic losses until the engine is not required to produce maximum output.

[350Matt]

otolith said:

I don't think it's meant to improve engine efficiency or to be a too good to be true energy-for-nothing job - it's just a supercharger which defers the parasitic losses until the engine is not required to produce maximum output.

thank you

its not a perpetual motion machine , nor did I claim it as one

but it is a very easily installed superchrager

[anonymous-user]

otolith said:

I'm sceptical that this would be much use on track,

it's absolutely no use on a track anyway, because it hasn't got the power to provide boost at the higher intake mass flows (i.e at peak power rpm). And if you're on track, and not at, or very near, to peak power rpm, then i have news for you, you're in the WRONG gear! ;-)

[bigkeeko]

They reckon if you can hit 88mph in a storm you can travel in time.Flames where your tyres were etc. Haven`t tried it as I live in Scotland and we don`t get any bad weather.

OR.

You can bolt your wifes hair dryer onto your intake (make sure the setting is on cold) and hit the switch from inside the car. It can be run off the fag lighter. I tried it and rear ended a Volvo FH12. Polished out mind which is just as well. Next time I`ll try blowing the cold air over a bag of ice sellotaped just before my drilled airbox but I`ll make sure the road`s clear. Should be good for a few horses.

cheers

Edited by bigkeeko on Thursday 5th September 16:15

[350Matt]

Funny



So a measured gain on a dyno isn't enough to convince some people that this is worth pursuing or is a valid product?

What more proof would you like exactly?

[Snake the Sniper]

The problem is that I don't think we don't believe the plot. As I said, I don't see how that tiny thing can fill a 70 lb/ft gap in the torque curve on it's own. If it was that easy, every man and his dog would be doing the same.

[otolith]

A review from a sceptic;

http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturboTest.asp...