intercooling

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jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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And for prospective customers as well you need to have confidence that your chosen mapper is completely au fait with the platform he is mapping on.
As someone much wiser than me said its 75% mapper 25% ecu when it comes down to the choices.

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Fiiinally managed to get some data on intake temps. I drove over to garage this morning to try and get the boost pressure issue sorted and the fact the bonnet wouldn`t shut. ON the way over the max boost was about 8 psi and I couldn`t get the temps over 27 degrees C even after a particularly long straight on the A303 so great!
Got to the garage and they rotated the actuator 180 degrees so no probs with bonnet now and........wait for it.......took the hose off the actuator and the hose off the compressor housing and swapped them round and hey presto the AVCR is working as it should. D`OH!! Oh well at least it`s sorted now.

On the way home I logged inlet temps and even after a period of heat soak in traffic then a prolonged boost period I saw a max of 37 degrees C. I know this is getting towards the upper end of the scale so I'm going to do some more logging. I have a suspicion the current set up is adequate at current boost.I`d completely forgotten how bloody fast this car is at 1.3bar. I took one of the guys out from the garage who isn`t known to be "expressive" and he got out with a massive grin saying it`s the fastest thing he`s ever been in.

Just a live map to do now for this Summer and Bob`s your uncle!

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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A peak of 37 degC is fine. Generally, i use 40degC as my "ought to be less than" point! Of course, for a hard driven track car, you can't reply on the thermal inertia of the intercooling system quite like you can for a road car, which even on a "hoon" tends to spend a lot of time at part throttle......

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Thanks Max.

One thing I might add is that once heat soaked to about 24 degrees C (so not particularly hot) it`s pretty difficult to shed this heat through the use of a rad with an ambient of 15 degrees C. I know there`s reasons why involving temperature gradients and science and stuff...... At this point the inlet temps off boost are actually being heated to 24 degrees C by the chargecooler and in turn you are starting from a higher base when you come on boost.

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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You need to quote ambient temps in the equation, 37 on a cold morning is a totally different story to 37 on a day with 30'c ambient.
Like Max implies, if you take the car on track it's different again, not hard to see +20'c over your 37 after a few laps.

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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I`m still going to investigate the Spec-R air to air option and/or upgrading the current air to water set up. At least I have the means to get data now. Options on improving current set up is a 10L reservoir and a slightly larger chargecooler.

On the 37 degree run ambients were 16 degrees and it was full throttle uphill for probably 3/4 of a mile. Plus as mentioned the car had heatsoaked.

Heaveho

5,278 posts

173 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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I've just fitted a 3.5" thick ETS intercooler on the Evo ( running 1.8 bar peak ). I haven't done what I'd call thorough logging yet, but in comparison to the other 3 intercoolers I've had fitted to the car in the past, all of which have had the temps logged over a reasonable period of time, it seems to be extraordinarily capable. Up to a point, the harder and longer you accelerate for, the more the temps drop, just a matter of how open the throttle plate is really. The recovery rate seems exceptional after standing in traffic, after 3 seconds of movement, with the throttle barely open, the temps at the throttle body are dropping as fast as the gauge can keep up.

I'll post up some stuff as a comparison to yours when I've done something a bit more meaningful to record them, are you using the same stuff I am to record yours?

I tend to wait 'til summer really gets a grip, nothing like 30 degree ambient, and a 0-140 standing start with the gauge showing heatsoak to ambient temp to tell you if you've got the right set up or not! I tried one IC in that scenario that simply increased the reading to 49 degrees and still rising before I'd seen enough!

I take readings from 2 locations, the k-type is tucked into the airstream just in front of the throttle body, and from the factory iat sensor in the manifold via a scangauge, typically anything from 3-7 degree difference, dependant on throttle openings, however, after long spells of light throttle, the difference can be much more.

Heaveho

5,278 posts

173 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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jontysafe said:
I`m still going to investigate the Spec-R air to air option and/or upgrading the current air to water set up. At least I have the means to get data now. Options on improving current set up is a 10L reservoir and a slightly larger chargecooler.

On the 37 degree run ambients were 16 degrees and it was full throttle uphill for probably 3/4 of a mile. Plus as mentioned the car had heatsoaked.
Were the temps still rising under those conditions as you throttled off? In my experience, a good intercooler setup will decrease temps pretty quickly once the throttle is more than half open.

Edited by Heaveho on Friday 18th April 17:18

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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I've heard the ETS intercoolers are quality. What I don't want to happen is for me to fit an intercooler that sorts out my charge temps but increases engine running temps as they are absolutely spot on. I've heard that some of the thicker garrett cores can do this.


jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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I've heard the ETS intercoolers are quality. What I don't want to happen is for me to fit an intercooler that sorts out my charge temps but increases engine running temps as they are absolutely spot on. I've heard that some of the thicker garrett cores can do this.


chuntington101

5,733 posts

235 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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Is the chargecooler actually the issue? Or do you not have enough low temp radiator to remove the heat from the system? It should be pretty easy to add more low temp rad in the rear of the car (basically a smaller version of the rear mounted rad you were lookin at) and that would not impact engine water temps.

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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The whole chargecooler system is cleverly built and done on a very tight budget. For instance the chargecooler is this one:

http://bit.ly/1jh7CVk with a Think Automotive 14gall/hr pump and a Serck alloy radiator that's roughly 35cm x 30cm. The whole thing probably cost £250 and for that it does a great job.

The rad and getting the temp out of the system isn't the problem. It's the same issue that the PWR barrels have, there just isn't enough meat to get the reduction needed.

I think as a first attempt I'm going to change to this one from same company:

http://bit.ly/1mhaBUa and a header tank. Total cost about £100. It's not that I'm trying to do this on a pittance it's just tinkering.

I was actually quite impressed yesterday, no heatsoak this time as no traffic and a prolonged 20mile on off boost hoon at ambients of 16 never saw above 29 degrees intake.

chuntington101

5,733 posts

235 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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If you want more chargecooler why not by another like the one you have and then run them in parallel? That way you have twice the core volume but you are not restricting the flow.

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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Space is a major restriction.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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Given the system appears to be working reasonably well at present, best bet is just to look into proper efficient heat exchangers for both front and intake air.

Yes that cheap chinese one is giving good results already...so that's bound to be a good sign that one made with quality cores will be even better again

Likewise the front water rad. So by doing this, there should be no negative aspects, only positives in every way.

You've meausured charge temp air, have you measured water temp before and after each core, to see how much heat is being expelled from each setup, or gained at various points ?

mighty kitten

431 posts

132 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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i run a 6x6 pwr barrel cooler with a polo front rad and twin bosch pumps . on track running around 450hp it takes around 15-20mins to bring the water temp up to 40c at which point other things like brakes and tyres are ready for a rest .ive got room for a much bigger front cooler but dont see the need given how hard you would need to drive it on the road to saturate the system .

the polo rad is commonly used on seven type kits and works well on lower powered engines.

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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What are your intake temps like? All the tests I've seen on the PWR barrels say that they are great at causing as little pressure loss as possible but not actually that great at charge cooling.

Why do you run twin pumps? I've been told to keep water volume up (minimum 20 ltrs) but water speed down (14-20 gall/hr) other wise the water isn't in the radiator long enough.


stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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jontysafe said:
What are your intake temps like? All the tests I've seen on the PWR barrels say that they are great at causing as little pressure loss as possible but not actually that great at charge cooling.

Why do you run twin pumps? I've been told to keep water volume up (minimum 20 ltrs) but water speed down (14-20 gall/hr) other wise the water isn't in the radiator long enough.
Nope. Flow is good..and LOTS of it. I doubt you could ever have too much flow.
The last thing you want is slow flow.

And volume yes can be a good thing, but IMO the best place to have that volume is in the frontal radiator which should always be getting cooled.
Likewise lots of capacity for the engine heat exchanger is good ( assuming it isnt subject to lots of engine heat soak )

mighty kitten

431 posts

132 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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mines mid engined so a single pump just cant push the water round . 25mm id pipes as well as i have to run the main coolant pipes and other stuff through a fairly narrow tunnel .just fitted an owens gt3079hta bb so will be running closer to 500hp .

on the road in summer i never saw ait go more than 20c over ambient but the car is 800kg so you dont really need to use a lot of boost to scoot along .

the biggest benefit with the barrel is having a very short run from turbo to inlet



Edited by mighty kitten on Sunday 20th April 11:54


wether it makes any difference i dont know but i plumbed mine so the water is fed in closest to the throttle

Edited by mighty kitten on Sunday 20th April 11:59

jontysafe

Original Poster:

2,351 posts

177 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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That is the best way.

Car looks great fun. Be great if you were local. Gets a bit boring going for a spin on your own!