K series vvc abortion.

K series vvc abortion.

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Discussion

Manchestergas

Original Poster:

67 posts

138 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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So I have had lots of problems with my vvc ( all due to poor workmanship in my eyes)
It's a 2006 with 14k on the clock that had hgf and this is where the fun started. The car was stood for 7 years and went pop a few hundred miles after being run after the long stand.
The garage struggled timing the vvc head back up and it came away with noisey lifters also. ( the head was stripped as I wanted it porting but time constraints meant it was rebuilt again in stock form.

I took the car to a professional race builders garage ( I won't name names yet)
To put the car right. New lifters were fitted and car and vvc mechs re timed.

I collected the car and it was all perfect once again I thought.
After two hours I heard a loud sudden Tinking/pinking sound matched to the engine speed for approx 10 seconds and then there was always just a little Tinking sound that appeared straight after that.

The car was back a race builders with in 24h and me asking for it to be checked over.
The garage owner basically said it was not like that when it left here and asked of I had been thrashing it ( I had not).

He told me the head would need to come off at full cost to me for the second time in 1 month with bills at £1500 already.
I thought fook that and took the car away and sent it to mg rover tech.

These are the pictures of what was found.






All the pictures are taken 200 miles after the followers were changed and re timed by the race builder.

16 more new followers are fitted and a brand new rear vvc mech.

The car still is not right. If I start it from cold and do not rev it a knock appears at the top end for five mins or so ( it is not a tap but a knock. Once warm it virtually disappears but randomly start knocking like when cold even when hot.

Bills now at over 2.5k
So I return to race builder with photos and complaint and he offers a free rebuild of head.
It's been there 4 weeks and Its not been touched. He says they all do that when cold and he has not seen it do it when hot.
It's rare when hot for it to do it but it does on occasions and always happens when cold. By reving on start up you can make it disappear but my argument is it should not sound ruff in the first place.

Do you think I have grounds to pursue this through a court as the builder has no interest in rebuilding it.

I have just collected the car to take for a drive to try and get it knocking/taping when got.

This engine was quiet as a mouse and now is not.
I'm panning on touring this summer in it and don't want it going pop and it being my fault.
Never seen such poor service in my life imo

Manchestergas

Original Poster:

67 posts

138 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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Any advise on this matter is greatly appreciated

Pumaracing

2,089 posts

206 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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Dave Andrews will pop up on here in due course to advise you. He's the acknowledged expert on K series engines.

benters

1,459 posts

133 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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feeling your pain. . .ouch

DVandrews

1,315 posts

282 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
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A lot of issues connected with the VVC system are misdiagnosed as follower problems. Lash in the VVC mechs or actuator can cause a tapping which can vary with temperature. Although the followers can give problems they are generally very reliable and normally only give issues if the follower feed oilways are blocked by careless use of sealant or the followers are heavily varnished.

I would check the VVC mechs over to see if there is any lash, if so you should consider replacing them as it is a short road from noisy mechs to failed ones and resulting carnage.

I usually have a few good spare VVC mechs here if you need to source some.

It is straightforward to check for a failed follower, but this must be done with the head on the engine and with the engine stopped immediately following tapping.

Dave

maxsuper

1 posts

125 months

Friday 25th April 2014
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HI, first time poster here.
Had to reply being a K Series enthusiast.

From your photos it looks like a silicone based sealant has been used to seal the cam carrier to head. This is nearly always a fatal mistake as the silicone will block the very fine oil passages in the head and carrier. It certainly looks like this has happened in this case.
An anaerobic sealant must be used in this application so the inevitable excess sealant is washed away by the oil flow when first started.

Manchestergas

Original Poster:

67 posts

138 months

Friday 8th August 2014
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I have had the head taken off and rebuilt with this one. this consisted of being acid dipped,steam cleaned and all parts refitted.
Another new set of followers have gone in ( that's the fourth fecking set in 4k miles)

Oil pressure has been checked and is 6 bar cold.
Got it back yesterday and a lifter appears still to struggle and start tapping when I'm off power and rpm is falling from 2.5krpm to 1k rpm.

So if we know theres new lifters, the head Is spotless with no damage and we have oil pressure correct at take off point.
Can any anyone point me as to where to look next.

Knocking still evident and lifters ( brand new 20 miles only) tap as if stuck every now and again at low rpm.

Going looking at a zr tomoz to rip engine out if its quiet.
That was another £850 down the pan it looks like. :-(

PaulKemp

979 posts

144 months

Friday 8th August 2014
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How much is a recon head?

DVandrews

1,315 posts

282 months

Saturday 9th August 2014
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One problem which can afflict a K series head is misalignment of the oil charge holes to the follower bores so that the oilways do not align with the charge grooves in the followers. This means that the followers only receive oil pressure when the follower moves past the hole rather than during the latent period. This can cause followers to be on the edge from time to time. Vocalising of the end of the drillings in the follower npbores can help. Tapping can also be from the VVC actuator or mechs themselves.

Dave

Manchestergas

Original Poster:

67 posts

138 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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I have just had the head replaced on this car with a known good head.
The noise is Exactly the same. Can I buy a vvc engine with warranty from anywhere? so as not to knock its fecking head off.
I can't believe how its noise is identical but it is. Oil pressure has been checked again and all good.
It's new engine time I think. There's another 1k down the pan. :-(

226bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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Manchestergas said:
I have just had the head replaced on this car with a known good head.
The noise is Exactly the same.
You sure it's the head?

ridds

8,192 posts

243 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
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What's the hot idle oil pressure?

Manchestergas

Original Poster:

67 posts

138 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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I could personally not tell you the oil pressures but it has been checked by two seperate garages,
Both hot and cold. One being a race engine builder,( did the poor work on show above and has since rebuilt the head supposedly on the cheap but stung me for £850 notes and replaced my piper lifters with some oe ones. Then one being an ex rover tech of twelve years who has now just swapped the head. The head lasted 10 miles before I started getting a noisy lifter when traveling round corners, another 40 miles and it was permanently deflated and noisy ( race builders attempt at rebuild) he said I had seized a lifter possibly by over revving (I know that not true). Rover bod says that it is one lifter not working properly (same as last head)

In all it's had two heads ( first had 3 seperate lifter changes and two strip downs including head gaskets)
Second head has been swapped just yesterday and is identical in noise.

I ain't a mechanic but it can only be oil related in my eyes now. Rover bod says he is clutching at straws but thinks a new oil pump could be on the cards as a last ditch attemp although pressure I fine. I remember 6bar and 4 bar or 4bar and two and a half bar off the top of my head.
I'm thinking just rip it out and find a good one heard running, you have to understand I'm now 4k out of pocket and my car sounds the same, I just want it to sound like any £1500 mgf I here daily running about. Not to much to ask I feel.

I could have had a monster of a k series for those figures but instead have a dog of an engine.

Depressing is not the word IMO.




Jack_and_MLE

620 posts

238 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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I would suggest you book it with DVA

Not cheap option but you know he will do best job

Jack